macOS itself requires much less as does the software running on it.
I have 128 and rarely pass 12 in actual use.
The MacBook Neo is a $500 Wake-Up Call for the Entire PC Industry
- Thread starter Julio Franco
- Start date
macOS itself requires much less as does the software running on it.
I have 128 and rarely pass 12 in actual use.
I disagree, you have my full opinion on the articlebut time will prove one of us right.
I believe this is very much a mainstream move because of the price point. Do you think the average person buying a $350 iPad is asking themselves how much RAM it has or which SoC is running the tablet? Or are they just thinking about what tasks they can accomplish with it, even if that’s just watching YouTube or playing a simple puzzle game?
I don't think the average Chromebook was desirable for the average consumer, but this one will be because of the reasons explained in my editorial. The iPhone chip, regardless of its origin is very efficient and seems powerful enough. The RAM is by far the most controversial part of the specs, but in my experience using both Mac and Windows full time for the last two decades, Macs tend to run more smoothly when RAM-constrained than Windows, especially unmanaged Windows systems loaded with bloatware.
Also, I know at least four people using M1 Airs with 8GB RAM (regular folks, not enthusiasts) and I've never heard any of them complain about their laptops running slow.
That’s spot on. Most people complaining about specs have never used macOS as a daily driver.
Windows need the ram because of windows itself.
A raw install of macOS uses about 2Gb on its own.
I see this as a moment the windows world needs to pay attention too.
The ram is part of the cpu.
All while Google is aggressively working on their Chromebook replacement, with a more premium AluminiumOS, ALOS, device that will probably put it in Chromebook Plus territory. Which is >$500.
Good Luck, Google.
At least they have better school admin software that Apple does. Right now. But how much more time will Apple have to innovate before the ALOS devices reaches market?
I've seen this "brand loyalty established in college tends to persist." I worked in IT when Pascal was used in colleges to teach one how to program, much like BASIC was essentially created for.
But, since that what they knew, that was what they wanted to use in their new work environment.
The other things these new grads said they wanted during their interview was their own personal computer. This at a time when 2-4+ shared a computer or terminal in a cubicle.
They walked out.
But, since that what they knew, that was what they wanted to use in their new work environment.
The other things these new grads said they wanted during their interview was their own personal computer. This at a time when 2-4+ shared a computer or terminal in a cubicle.
They walked out.
No it is not.
The RAM is packaged under the processor logic. It is NOT part of the CPU
https://www.techpowerup.com/347063/apple-macbook-neo-capped-at-8-gb-ram-by-a18-pro-info-pop-packaging
Google has already come out and states chromeOS isnt going anywhere anytime soon. It will still exist for low cost educational devices.
You want to talk Apple innovation? Apple doesnt even HAVE any sort of first party MDM. They are entirely reliant on 3rd party tools like JAMF. They have a very long way to go to match what Google offers.
Shirley Dulcey
Posts: 139 +94
iPads don't have a good file manager. Nor can you connect a USB cable to a desktop computer and treat it like a disk drive. Cleaning up files is much easier on an Android device than on iOS or iPadOS.
The "Mac Chromebook" has one big advantage over Google's: the OS.
Entering the working world, they can ask (demand?) a Mac Mx device because that has the same OS they learned on in college. (I mentioned in another post about new hires demanding Pascal for their programming language for the same reason, they learned it in college.)
Most Chromebook users usually have no choice but Windows, unless they are in a less-demanding office job, which AI is trying to take.
You dont need a file manager to clean up either Android or iOS. 99.9999% of data put on these machines are photos, videos, or applications, all of which can be deleted or de synced with a simple push.
And you CAN connect an ipad/iphone to a PC and pull photos off of it with USB. I dont know where that idea came from.
The primary educational buyers of chromebooks are not colleges. Students are responsible for that themselves.
It's elementary, middle, and high schools, none of which will be interested in an apple device that lacks the management tools of Chrome and costs 2-3X as much.
Melkor Unlimited
Posts: 341 +316
brucek
Posts: 2,335 +3,744
So you pay nothing for cloud storage, and have no remote storage. Except you are paying for storage devices, which do not last forever, and therefore also have a $/month.
Meanwhile the typical Apple user is buying a managed storage solution for a few bucks a month and getting something probably a lot more sophisticated than what you have (it certainly has a lot more redundancy). It will sync their entire family of devices, current and future, from anywhere across the world; without requiring opening up home network access or sophisticated network knowledge; it is a lot more failure resilient; and is a lot smarter about just working out of the box (it has a lot of magic about what bits and what encoding level to put where and when for photos, music, videos, etc. so all the user knows is they see what they want to see when they want to see it.)
I'm not here to dunk on you having built a solution that works for you. No argument there. But to categorically state that Apple users are getting "ripped off" for a system that can get them a high level of functionality with no user expertise, configuration, or up front cost, or really even much total cost is pretty off base in my opinion.
This is a good article. I appreciate that Mr. Franco put some serious thought into it. I don't detect any AI elements. His assessment about the laptop market is probably correct. The NEO should be very popular in the Apple community and will entice some Windows users to jump ship.
Personally, I avoid Apple. There used to be a joke that Apple is a Fascist company because you have to follow the party line. Everything is done for the 'common good', and risky or hazardous features are securely locked away from the ignorant hands of Apple users. It's a full-blown nanny state. The NEO looks like a nice, functional small computer, but then you need to buy into the Mac social system.
Windows is not much better because of the massive telemetry, although that can be corralled somewhat with O&O Shutup. I suspect MAC has even more telemetry than Windows, which they hide from their customers. I avoid Android for similar reasons, although you can de-google it with some effort.
I always pay more to get the hardware I want and put Linux on it. I don't have to register an account with the Apple or MS nanny state. No surveillance! What a breath of fresh air.
Personally, I avoid Apple. There used to be a joke that Apple is a Fascist company because you have to follow the party line. Everything is done for the 'common good', and risky or hazardous features are securely locked away from the ignorant hands of Apple users. It's a full-blown nanny state. The NEO looks like a nice, functional small computer, but then you need to buy into the Mac social system.
Windows is not much better because of the massive telemetry, although that can be corralled somewhat with O&O Shutup. I suspect MAC has even more telemetry than Windows, which they hide from their customers. I avoid Android for similar reasons, although you can de-google it with some effort.
I always pay more to get the hardware I want and put Linux on it. I don't have to register an account with the Apple or MS nanny state. No surveillance! What a breath of fresh air.
The link shows the RAM being attached above the logic by solder, so even though you are technically correct that the RAM is not part of the CPU, to the average person there is no discernible difference.
WhiteLeaff
Posts: 1,049 +2,033
Purplehazeffc
Posts: 8 +4
100% this isn't for "Power users" and it's not intended to be for them. The Macbook Air & above is.
People tend to forget that the majority of laptop buyers are just normal people that don't care about what's inside. Everyone here complaining about SSD size or the amount of RAM it has fall into the 8%-10% of all laptop users. To the other 90% of laptop users this Macbook Neo is perfectly accessible, specifically if they already own an iPhone.
YES being non upgradable will make these E-waste if they fail or out of date, so that is unfortunate.
Std it should have 512gb & then 1tb. And 8gb on Apple is closer to having 12gb on Windows. So the 8gb of RAM isn't as bad as it seems. If RAM wasn't so expensive ATM it may of had more.
But remember, you are in the 10% of being a power user & then would be buying well over $1500 laptops. So this isn't for you. For the other 90% of uses & how they would use there laptop. It's perfectly acceptable way to get into the Apple ecosystem & not a Windows system.
People tend to forget that the majority of laptop buyers are just normal people that don't care about what's inside. Everyone here complaining about SSD size or the amount of RAM it has fall into the 8%-10% of all laptop users. To the other 90% of laptop users this Macbook Neo is perfectly accessible, specifically if they already own an iPhone.
YES being non upgradable will make these E-waste if they fail or out of date, so that is unfortunate.
Std it should have 512gb & then 1tb. And 8gb on Apple is closer to having 12gb on Windows. So the 8gb of RAM isn't as bad as it seems. If RAM wasn't so expensive ATM it may of had more.
But remember, you are in the 10% of being a power user & then would be buying well over $1500 laptops. So this isn't for you. For the other 90% of uses & how they would use there laptop. It's perfectly acceptable way to get into the Apple ecosystem & not a Windows system.
$500 is the barrier they should have cracked a long time ago. A Macbook, an iPhone and a Mac computer (mini) should be available at that price point. But that price is for students - and I'm guessing - educators with Department of Education credentials.
I am deciding whether to buy my mom the pink Macbook Neo for her birthday or to get her a pink iPad A16 with a pink hardcover keyboard case. I really wanted Red but it's not optional.
All she needs it for is email, Zoom conferencing, web browsing and other basics. She's still using the iPhone 12 Pro Max 512GB I handed-me-down to her. I think she'd probably like the iPad more since she's familiar with iOS and for the most part she can still use Microsoft Office if she needs.
Unfortunately, nothing about those specs is good. 8GB of RAM is worthless nowadays. 512GB maximum? Why not include a Micro SD Express card slot so we have an opportunity to spend a fortune and upgrade to 2TB like we would with Switch2?
Students can get away with these limitations: they need basics from the Google suite like Classroom, Slides, Docs, Drive, etc.
I am deciding whether to buy my mom the pink Macbook Neo for her birthday or to get her a pink iPad A16 with a pink hardcover keyboard case. I really wanted Red but it's not optional.
All she needs it for is email, Zoom conferencing, web browsing and other basics. She's still using the iPhone 12 Pro Max 512GB I handed-me-down to her. I think she'd probably like the iPad more since she's familiar with iOS and for the most part she can still use Microsoft Office if she needs.
Unfortunately, nothing about those specs is good. 8GB of RAM is worthless nowadays. 512GB maximum? Why not include a Micro SD Express card slot so we have an opportunity to spend a fortune and upgrade to 2TB like we would with Switch2?
Students can get away with these limitations: they need basics from the Google suite like Classroom, Slides, Docs, Drive, etc.
An oversized iPhone that can't even run all iPhone software? What a terrible product and only useful to people who only care about the logo. Where I am there are far better products for 500 USD.
This is the Mac equivalent of a Chromebook, it really should have 12 or 16GB of RAM at minimum, RAM packaging limits aren't an excuse as Apple could have modified the SoC design or used an A19 instead. Only 1 USB3.0 port is a terrible limitation for a $600 laptop as well. 8GB of RAM is probably fine for a student only running a browser and a few other apps, although I would question if it would be enough for 4 years of high school or college.
But it's Apple, it'll probably sell well on branding alone regardless of the drawbacks.
But it's Apple, it'll probably sell well on branding alone regardless of the drawbacks.
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GrayDragon
Posts: 125 +34
I feel the same about Apple. That Microsoft decided to copy them has always been unacceptable to me. You can keep your pretty machines. I still miss DOS and the games that ran on it.
BlackyNoir
Posts: 40 +114
I think you meant Xerox there?
GoldenGoat
Posts: 411 +377
This looks like it could be a good option for a lot of people. It’s clearly not for power users, but it’s probably a solid pick for most people. I think the chip is about as fast as the 5 year old M1, but that is still a very capable chip. I don’t think the ram and storage is a problem for most people. I have powerful linux/windows pc’s, but I could see getting this for light tasks when I want to run off battery for the day. People who need a more powerful computer know that they need a more powerful computer, but for everyone else, I think this could be an interesting option.
I consider the BUDGET space to be that like $200-$500 range. I don't think this computer is that big a deal other than to Mac fans. The CPU sounds nice, but I find it rather irrelevant given the RAM limitation -- I found even the lowly N3050 and N100 (relatively slow but low-power "Celeron N" series chips) to run perfectly fine (in Linux at least, I don't really care how they run in Windows..) No slowdowns, lag, waiting for stuff to load or execute... I'm sure SOME workloads exist that are CPU-intensive without needing more RAM, but I didn't come across any (I.e. I've done work with VMs, LLMs, etc. that would want more speed than these have, but they'd also need more than 8GB RAM.)
Don't get me wrong, I'm sure this will sell well, and will get some converts. I just don't think it's as revolutionary as it's being made out to be.
Just to get the pricing into perspective, my mom just got (within the last week or two, so post "RAMPocalypse" pricing) a system with 12GB RAM, 512GB SSD, for $218 (they've gone up a little, they're now $250). I got Windows the heck off it and there's really nothing to comment on there -- it runs VERY well, fanless, thin, light, low power* so the battery life is good, and (sometimes an issue with the real cheapies) no case flex. Nice 15.6 inch screen, several USB-A and USB-C ports, HDMI, even a headphone jack on there, the usual bluetooth and wifi, and the keyboard is even pretty nice on it. Although there's no fingerprint reader, and the specs didn't list one, they DID attacha sticker that looks like a finger print reader to the trackpad so it can appear to have one; I guess they had to cut costs somewhere LOL.
*I doubt it's as low power as the chip in that Neo, but low enough that it runs cool; and I didn't test the battery life but it's in that 6-12 hour range somewhere.
Don't get me wrong, I'm sure this will sell well, and will get some converts. I just don't think it's as revolutionary as it's being made out to be.
Just to get the pricing into perspective, my mom just got (within the last week or two, so post "RAMPocalypse" pricing) a system with 12GB RAM, 512GB SSD, for $218 (they've gone up a little, they're now $250). I got Windows the heck off it and there's really nothing to comment on there -- it runs VERY well, fanless, thin, light, low power* so the battery life is good, and (sometimes an issue with the real cheapies) no case flex. Nice 15.6 inch screen, several USB-A and USB-C ports, HDMI, even a headphone jack on there, the usual bluetooth and wifi, and the keyboard is even pretty nice on it. Although there's no fingerprint reader, and the specs didn't list one, they DID attacha sticker that looks like a finger print reader to the trackpad so it can appear to have one; I guess they had to cut costs somewhere LOL.
*I doubt it's as low power as the chip in that Neo, but low enough that it runs cool; and I didn't test the battery life but it's in that 6-12 hour range somewhere.
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Rudyduu
Posts: 1,037 +880
Scores around 3,461 single-core and 8,668 multi-core in Geekbench.
Geekbench scores don't line up with any real-world applications, the scores are mostly meaningless.
How is the author forming an opinion about a device they haven't used yet?
"It ships without bloatware. " A reload costs nothing
"far less disruptive software updates that don't break like Windows does" Apple has never had an update that didn't break anything? You can turn off updates.
Geekbench scores don't line up with any real-world applications, the scores are mostly meaningless.
How is the author forming an opinion about a device they haven't used yet?
"It ships without bloatware. " A reload costs nothing
"far less disruptive software updates that don't break like Windows does" Apple has never had an update that didn't break anything? You can turn off updates.
Melkor Unlimited
Posts: 341 +316
Ryzen 7 3700x + Radeon 5500XT 8GB in GeekBench 6
ST 1748, MT 8334, OpenCL 46180, Vulkan 45895
Procesing power is not an issue here.
8GB shared RAM may be.
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