The Rise, Fall and Revival of AMD

grumblguts

Posts: 295   +251
You ever try to put a new engine in an old car? There's plenty of bottlenecks.

Same thing applies to PC. If I buy a new PC, I want a new motherboard that is designed to handle it.
my board is ready for the latest cpu your argument is flawed.
I can build a pc using my board with a 32 thread cpu.
I chose to wait and with pci 4.0 I dont see no bottle neck.
 

grumblguts

Posts: 295   +251
You ever try to put a new engine in an old car? There's plenty of bottlenecks.

Same thing applies to PC. If I buy a new PC, I want a new motherboard that is designed to handle it.
Dont see this bottle necking to a cpu its designed to run do you.

I got the 3700x now. this time next year I will have the latest 32 thread xt cpu.
Zero bottle necks in fact it will make my pc even faster.
NOT slower . whats the thinking ?
 

Adi6293

Posts: 467   +505
You ever try to put a new engine in an old car? There's plenty of bottlenecks.

Same thing applies to PC. If I buy a new PC, I want a new motherboard that is designed to handle it.
I paid £240 for my X470 motherboard specifically so the VRM is good enough for future upgrades, now I'm just waiting for Ryzen 7 4700X or Ryzen 9 4900X to replace my Ryzen 7 2700X, I dont need PCI-E 4.0 because even next gen GPU's wont need it and 3500MBs m.2 nvme SSD is fast enough for me so unless my motherboard dies I will get 4 - 6 years out of it and major performance uplift after my CPU upgrade. I hope AMD keeps it up : - )
 

Adi6293

Posts: 467   +505
The ATi acquisition was the biggest mistake in the short term. Long term it made sense, but they ridiculously overpaid for the company as the article states.

All that cash swallowed up just before Intel finally launched a modern architecture and that limited AMD's response in the CPU sector for ten entire years. Hindsight is 20/20 but they seriously overreached.

I remember seeing the reviews of Core 2 in 2006 comparing it to AMD's best and realised then AMD were in serious trouble and would be for a long time. Not least because you saw how easily Core 2 overclocked and hit the kind of speeds AMD wasn't going to be competitive at.

A $200 bottom binned E6300 would easily bust past 3GHz on a good board and trounce the revised X2 6000+, a $450 CPU which had no OC headroom.
Well AMD wanted to acquire nVidia but they didn't want Jensen to be the CEO which would probably work out better for them because he know to run a profitable business but the biggest problem was Intel who is trying to destroy AMD for the past 30 years, their bribery knows no limits but of course that doesn't change the fact that AMD should have sort that out first and then get ATi
 

Adi6293

Posts: 467   +505
I owned a K6-II and then a K7 TB and then an Athlon64. Those were the glorious days for AMD. My favorite AMD Gpu was the HD 7970 (ghz edition), because that GPU aged so well. Impressed by the value and performance of Ryzen 5 3600. I find it strange that, in their glory days, AMD's CPUs didn't get enough attention and sales even though they performed much better than Intel offerings.
Give this a watch, you will know why they didn't sell as much as they should
 

dad0ts

Posts: 13   +4
I owned Am386DX-40 back in 1994-1995.(my 286-20 was Harris) Then Am486DX4-120, Am5x86-133 (OC to 160). Tried K6-166 in 1997-98, but not liked it (hot, bad OC): changed to iP55C 166MMX (easy OC to 250). Next AMD was K7: Athlon XP 2500+(Barton) in 2003 - great 32-bit single-core CPU, stopped using it only in 2013. Also had some cheap low power dual-core Athlon X2 4200+. Since 2014 use only intel, but...waiting for Zen 3 and 8C/16T CCX (to reduce latency).
 

Adi6293

Posts: 467   +505
Dont see this bottle necking to a cpu its designed to run do you.

I got the 3700x now. this time next year I will have the latest 32 thread xt cpu.
Zero bottle necks in fact it will make my pc even faster.
NOT slower . whats the thinking ?
He is a die hard Intel fan boy that's all you need to know : - )
 
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gamerk2

Posts: 392   +269
The ATi acquisition was the biggest mistake in the short term. Long term it made sense, but they ridiculously overpaid for the company as the article states.

All that cash swallowed up just before Intel finally launched a modern architecture and that limited AMD's response in the CPU sector for ten entire years. Hindsight is 20/20 but they seriously overreached.

I remember seeing the reviews of Core 2 in 2006 comparing it to AMD's best and realised then AMD were in serious trouble and would be for a long time. Not least because you saw how easily Core 2 overclocked and hit the kind of speeds AMD wasn't going to be competitive at.

A $200 bottom binned E6300 would easily bust past 3GHz on a good board and trounce the revised X2 6000+, a $450 CPU which had no OC headroom.
I was one of the people who after FX came out (and I was against the design from the start; same issues as the Pentium 4) who felt the CPU portion of AMD had no value left, and the only worthwhile part was the GPU section. Funny how in just a few years the situation did a complete 180.

Thing is, I purchased a bunch of AMD stock at about $1.80, and bailed at $15 figuring they hit their peak. Kinda disappointed I bailed so fast, but the stock is now almost certainly overvalued and will (eventually) correct to the $25-$30 range.
 

candle_86

Posts: 305   +220
You ever try to put a new engine in an old car? There's plenty of bottlenecks.

Same thing applies to PC. If I buy a new PC, I want a new motherboard that is designed to handle it.
What bottlenecks exist in putting a new engine in an old car? You realize car guys have been doing this since the 20s right?
 

MaxSmarties

Posts: 71   +18
You ever try to put a new engine in an old car? There's plenty of bottlenecks.

Same thing applies to PC. If I buy a new PC, I want a new motherboard that is designed to handle it.
My Gigabyte board with Z390 would be absolutely ok with an i7-10700K, that could be a good upgrade of my i5-9600K.
But intel want me to trash it for no reason.

So you are wrong, mate.
 

Evernessince

Posts: 5,081   +5,316
Very cool story but... in July 2020 I’m still having black screens and crashes with a 5700XT. That’s unacceptable in my opinion
Didn't you just say this past sunday that you replaced your 5700 XT?

"I bought it in december, when it appeared to be a better solution than a 2070 Super, for 160€ less.
I already have it replaced but it is not a defective card. Drivers are just poorly written.
Around mid April the situation seems to have been improved, regarding black screens, but then CoD Warzone was released and it is a nightmare to play on a 5700XT. Frame rate is high but with many fluctuations (on the 2070 Super is much more stable), and I'm experiencing again black screen from time to time.
I am very happy about 5700XT performance and price, but I wouldn't recommend it to any friends due to the drivers. "


Kind of sus, not going to lie.
 
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wiyosaya

Posts: 5,243   +3,335
Well AMD wanted to acquire nVidia but they didn't want Jensen to be the CEO which would probably work out better for them because he know to run a profitable business but the biggest problem was Intel who is trying to destroy AMD for the past 30 years, their bribery knows no limits but of course that doesn't change the fact that AMD should have sort that out first and then get ATi
No one could predict the future enough for AMD to have "sorted it out first" before moving on. If they had tried to do that, they might very well have gone under and we might be stuck with sIntel.

In business, sometimes you have to do the best that you can while you can and hope that your efforts pay off. IMO, current problems or not, AMD's willingness to do the best that they could has paid off; if it had not, the market would not have the Zen architecture.

I do not own AMD graphics cards, however, from what I have read, they are aware of the problems and working to get them solved. That is what a successful company does.
 

Shadowboxer

Posts: 627   +360
A good article, maybe doesn’t delve as deep into some of AMDs darker past as it could but still an interesting read.

I think the Athlon64 era was better for AMD in terms of performance, Zen doesn’t really outperform it’s competition by much, it just offers more silicon for less money and power consumption. But Athlon64 was smashing the competition down in style.

Personally I have a bee in my bonnet about Radeon. The drivers are atrocious and the user experience on a Radeon card is far worse than on a geforce card. I don’t believe at this point that AMD will do anything about their driver issues in that area, it’s been some time now. I think AMD would do well to sell the Radeon brand on as the more time passes, the weaker the brand gets. And as someone who has used Radeons for decades of my life it’s upsetting to see them in the state they are now.
 

HardReset

Posts: 725   +293
I do not own AMD graphics cards, however, from what I have read, they are aware of the problems and working to get them solved. That is what a successful company does.
Personally I have a bee in my bonnet about Radeon. The drivers are atrocious and the user experience on a Radeon card is far worse than on a geforce card. I don’t believe at this point that AMD will do anything about their driver issues in that area, it’s been some time now. I think AMD would do well to sell the Radeon brand on as the more time passes, the weaker the brand gets. And as someone who has used Radeons for decades of my life it’s upsetting to see them in the state they are now.
These AMD "driver issues" are mostly Nvidia fanboys trolling. Many hardware site/streamer have tried to replicate them without luck. And if they really are still true, where are proof of them? There is still nothing else than "someone on internet said there are problems".

Pathetic.
 

Evernessince

Posts: 5,081   +5,316
These AMD "driver issues" are mostly Nvidia fanboys trolling. Many hardware site/streamer have tried to replicate them without luck. And if they really are still true, where are proof of them? There is still nothing else than "someone on internet said there are problems".

Pathetic.
I would like to see a tech publication tackle the topic comprehensively. No reviewer has encountered the issues randoms are stating they are having. Even though some like Steve use them everyday.

TechSpot did an article awhile back giving us the info that return rates were elevated but is that because people were having issues or because people were reading unvetted reddit posts about other's having issues and getting scarred into returning? As TechSpot said in that very article, the board partners actually getting the returns/RMAs weren't able to reproduce the issues for a majority of the cards.

Given that reddit doesn't have any personal verification requirements and has extremely lax moderation, if I were a company it would make sense to sow fake issue posts on competitor reddits. Not saying that is happening but I look at what is happening on facebook, twitter, reddit, and pretty much anywhere else where there is completely unverified user content and you can't take an inch of it without a huge pile of skepticism. You have to assume that any system that can be abused, will be.
 

MaxSmarties

Posts: 71   +18
Didn't you just say this past sunday that you replaced your 5700 XT?

"I bought it in december, when it appeared to be a better solution than a 2070 Super, for 160€ less.
I already have it replaced but it is not a defective card. Drivers are just poorly written.
Around mid April the situation seems to have been improved, regarding black screens, but then CoD Warzone was released and it is a nightmare to play on a 5700XT. Frame rate is high but with many fluctuations (on the 2070 Super is much more stable), and I'm experiencing again black screen from time to time.
I am very happy about 5700XT performance and price, but I wouldn't recommend it to any friends due to the drivers. "


Kind of sus, not going to lie.
I replaced it under warranty with another one, hoping I just got a lemon. But this wasnt the case and I still have same issues.
AMD isn't able to fix those issues.
Black screen is a known problem present in every drivers release note since last december. They acknowledged it in december and in July we still have that bug reported as "known issue".
Totally unacceptable.
 

MaxSmarties

Posts: 71   +18
These AMD "driver issues" are mostly Nvidia fanboys trolling. Many hardware site/streamer have tried to replicate them without luck. And if they really are still true, where are proof of them? There is still nothing else than "someone on internet said there are problems".

Pathetic.
what is very pathetic is your worshipping of AMD in every single post.
BTW this is a picture of my Radeon 5700XT.
So much for an "Nvidia fanboy", dude.

 

MaxSmarties

Posts: 71   +18
I would like to see a tech publication tackle the topic comprehensively. No reviewer has encountered the issues randoms are stating they are having. Even though some like Steve use them everyday.

TechSpot did an article awhile back giving us the info that return rates were elevated but is that because people were having issues or because people were reading unvetted reddit posts about other's having issues and getting scarred into returning? As TechSpot said in that very article, the board partners actually getting the returns/RMAs weren't able to reproduce the issues for a majority of the cards.

Given that reddit doesn't have any personal verification requirements and has extremely lax moderation, if I were a company it would make sense to sow fake issue posts on competitor reddits. Not saying that is happening but I look at what is happening on facebook, twitter, reddit, and pretty much anywhere else where there is completely unverified user content and you can't take an inch of it without a huge pile of skepticism. You have to assume that any system that can be abused, will be.
there is actually an easy explanation to that, and it is written in the article.
The issue is very subtle by nature. It is difficult to reproduce...
You can play 5 straight hours without a problem, one week, and then ... bang, three times in a row. Some games seem to be more affected, but there isnt a definite pattern.
So for the seller is not easy to investigate, since they are not going to test the card for one week (they tested it for 20 minutes at best, and then sent it back to the manufacturer as defective).
AMD is well aware of the issue, and they reported it in the drivers release note since last december IIRC. So there isn't any "reddit conspiracy" here, but just poorly written drivers.
And the experience is frustrating.
 

Evernessince

Posts: 5,081   +5,316
I replaced it under warranty with another one, hoping I just got a lemon. But this wasnt the case and I still have same issues.
AMD isn't able to fix those issues.
Black screen is a known problem present in every drivers release note since last december. They acknowledged it in december and in July we still have that bug reported as "known issue".
Totally unacceptable.
If the return rate of AMD cards are 0.8% and you got two bad cards in a row, it's far more likely the issue is on your end, not AMD's.

The RMA procedure is the same regardless if you buy AMD or Nvidia. After all, they mostly have the same board partners.

If you send your card back to ASUS, AMD or Nvidia, and they can't find the issue and send you a different card back just in case, it doesn't matter what brand you buy if your system is the issue.

there is actually an easy explanation to that, and it is written in the article.
The issue is very subtle by nature. It is difficult to reproduce...
You can play 5 straight hours without a problem, one week, and then ... bang, three times in a row. Some games seem to be more affected, but there isnt a definite pattern.
So for the seller is not easy to investigate, since they are not going to test the card for one week (they tested it for 20 minutes at best, and then sent it back to the manufacturer as defective).
AMD is well aware of the issue, and they reported it in the drivers release note since last december IIRC. So there isn't any "reddit conspiracy" here, but just poorly written drivers.
And the experience is frustrating.
There is a definite pattern to every bug. After all, machines are pragmatic. You aren't going to convince me that the PC is somehow following a different logic route in a function simple "because", that's not the way it works.

AMD has had a black screen driver issue in the know bugs list for a long time. That isn't a new issue. It also says nothing of the frequency of said issue. The difference here is that AMD discloses issues, Nvidia does not. Nvidia has had a DPS latency bug, along with a host of other bugs, in their drivers for over a decade now. AMD used to have a screen tearing issue that lasted from the 7000 series to the 300 series.

From what I see:

People are claiming their cards are having issues. These people provide no proof of their systems having said issue, provide no proof of RMA, and provide no proof of any sort of testing.

Board partners are not able to find said issue nor is AMD. I'm not saying these issues don't exist but to me, it sounds a lot like confirmation bias and pack mentality. There are likely people with issues but in fact there are probably a lot of people having issues due to another component or due to their own incompetence. I've seen the average computer user on /r/AMD, /r/Intel, and /r/Nvidia. As a person who has had the job of testing part returns in the past, 95% of those returns (excluding returns for parts that where functioning but customer changed mind) are customer error. 5% were in fact actually broken.
 
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MaxSmarties

Posts: 71   +18
If the return rate of AMD cards are 0.8% and you got two bad cards in a row, it's far more likely the issue is on your end, not AMD's.

The RMA procedure is the same regardless if you buy AMD or Nvidia. After all, they mostly have the same board partners.

If you send your card back to ASUS, AMD or Nvidia, and they can't find the issue and send you a different card back just in case, it doesn't matter what brand you buy if your system is the issue.



There is a definite pattern to every bug. After all, machines are pragmatic. You aren't going to convince me that the PC is somehow following a different logic route in a function simple "because", that's not the way it works.

AMD has had a black screen driver issue in the know bugs list for a long time. That isn't a new issue. It also says nothing of the frequency of said issue. The difference here is that AMD discloses issues, Nvidia does not. Nvidia has had a DPS latency bug, along with a host of other bugs, in their drivers for over a decade now. AMD used to have a screen tearing issue that lasted from the 7000 series to the 300 series.

From what I see:

People are claiming their cards are having issues. These people provide no proof of their systems having said issue, provide no proof of RMA, and provide no proof of any sort of testing.

Board partners are not able to find said issue nor is AMD. I'm not saying these issues don't exist but to me, it sounds a lot like confirmation bias and pack mentality. There are likely people with issues but in fact there are probably a lot of people having issues due to another component or due to their own incompetence. I've seen the average computer user on /r/AMD, /r/Intel, and /r/Nvidia. As a person who has had the job of testing part returns in the past, 95% of those returns (excluding returns for parts that where functioning but customer changed mind) are customer error. 5% were in fact actually broken.
lol... you fanboys are so funny. Now even trying to put Nvidia into the matter (under an article speaking about AMD).
I didn't get two bad cards in a row.
The cards were just ok.
The drivers are not.

So now, thanks to your red cast reality distortion field, the customers are to blame... even if AMD itself are reporting the black screen as a known issue they aren't able to fix after, at least, 6 drivers release.
Comical...

The cards are fine.
The drivers are bugged.
 
Very few know this. Around 1972-73 Jerry Sander's interviewed myself, Ray Holt, and my partner Manny Lemas to start the AMD microprocessor group. We had several meetings and came up with a plan. However, a few weeks later Jerry decided it was too early for AMD to enter the microprocessor market because of their huge investment in the military sector. Around the same time AMI decided to exit the microprocessor market (firing their Microprocessor Group of 25 engineers) because "there is no future in microprocessors". They wanted to concentrate on custom chips and memory.
 

Adi6293

Posts: 467   +505
These AMD "driver issues" are mostly Nvidia fanboys trolling. Many hardware site/streamer have tried to replicate them without luck. And if they really are still true, where are proof of them? There is still nothing else than "someone on internet said there are problems".

Pathetic.
I have been using AMD cards exclusively since the Radeon R9 280X and I have been happy with them but the black screen issue has been really going on for many many years and trust me I am not some noob, currently I am using Radeon VII since 07.03.2019 and its been ok for most of that time but I did have the issue with fan profiles not working properly, OC profiles resetting every time I turn the computer on, December drivers brought the black screen in such numbers that I was ready to pull my hair out and now I can't OC my GPU core because if I touch it the clock wont go past 1640Mhz when "at stock" it runs on average at 1770Mhz so yeah not everyone who says there are drivers issues is nVidia fan who never used a Radeon GPU and the past few months even make me think of switching to nVidia next time around and I hate that company just as much as I have Intel
 

SRB

Posts: 11   +10
I have been using AMD cards exclusively since the Radeon R9 280X and I have been happy with them but the black screen issue has been really going on for many many years and trust me I am not some noob, currently I am using Radeon VII since 07.03.2019 and its been ok for most of that time but I did have the issue with fan profiles not working properly, OC profiles resetting every time I turn the computer on, December drivers brought the black screen in such numbers that I was ready to pull my hair out and now I can't OC my GPU core because if I touch it the clock wont go past 1640Mhz when "at stock" it runs on average at 1770Mhz so yeah not everyone who says there are drivers issues is nVidia fan who never used a Radeon GPU and the past few months even make me think of switching to nVidia next time around and I hate that company just as much as I have Intel
I've had my Radeon VII card almost since launch running on two different systems (new threadripper build in April). Can safely say I don't think I've ever seen a black screen issue with this card and I've updated every driver as they came out. Never overclocked, but did run under volted for a while, and yeah setting don't always load on reboot.