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The world's first 8K TV channel has kicked off with masterpiece '2001: A Space Odyssey'

By mongeese · 39 replies
Dec 2, 2018
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  1. Squid Surprise

    Squid Surprise TS Evangelist Posts: 2,098   +1,131

    So I want you to actually THINK for a minute about what I've previously posted (I know, it's tough!)... here's a link to help you...
    https://www.quora.com/Why-cant-I-tell-a-difference-between-1080p-and-4K-resolutions-video

    Now, after you clicked on the link and read (it's only a few sentences and 1 chart, so it shouldn't be too taxing), you'll see that assuming you have 20/20 vision, and assuming a viewing distance of 10 feet, you need at LEAST a 70" screen to see a difference between 4k and 1080p.

    Now, the VAST majority of people don't have 70" or larger screens, yet their viewing distance is generally 8-10 feet (or more)... Tell me now, is 4k necessary?

    Needless to say, 8k becomes even less useful....

    Now, if you're talking about a 32" 4k MONITOR, which you typically sit a foot or so away from, that's a completely different story. But that's not what we're talking about here!

    If you're one of those few people with an 80" 8K screen that you sit 5 feet away from - good for you - at least you're taking advantage of your $20,000 purchase.... but I hardly think this describes the majority...

    Now, as I already posted, this doesn't mean that you shouldn't buy a 4K TV!! If you want HDR 10, Dolby Vision, etc, you don't really have a choice as to your choice of screen - they don't come in 1080p variants. This will undoubtedly be true years down the line once 8K is mainstream - if you want future goodies like "HDR 100, Dolby SuperCool" (yes, I know they don't exist, but there will be some sort of equivalent), you'll probably have no choice but to go 8K.
     
    Burty117 likes this.
  2. axiomatic13

    axiomatic13 TS Addict Posts: 188   +109

    I'd give my eye teeth for Comcast to just push a true uncompressed 1080p signal. Why are we not there yet? Every other country who has 1080p pushes an uncompressed signal. Why can't they? (I know the answer, it's $$$) Also, why is OTA not 4k yet? Are we that inferior to Japan who has had it for years? Hell, NHK just turned on 8k!
     
  3. ZipperBoi

    ZipperBoi TS Rookie

    Yes.
     
    EClyde likes this.
  4. Lew Zealand

    Lew Zealand TS Addict Posts: 186   +143

    OK, a question about the actual function of 8K in terms of watching TV:

    If you're sitting ~5 feet from an 80 inch screen, how useful is that image at the edges? Shouldn't the edges be so geometrically distorted by the horrible viewing angle as to be useless or at least reduce your feeling of immersion? Is there actually a max size/viewing angle that's useful in order to set a useful upper bound on movie viewing?

    Note this doesn't pertain to computer screens as increased resolution for static text display is more important than for movies.
     
  5. Squid Surprise

    Squid Surprise TS Evangelist Posts: 2,098   +1,131

    Probably terrible.... the thing is, we don’t really know, as there are so few 8k TVs out there - and 0 content to out on them.... eventually they’ll be mainstream and we’ll have more info on it :)
     
  6. Tony Stewart

    Tony Stewart TS Rookie

    tags: Actual resolution vs pixel count, pixel contrast ratio vs block contrast ratio of 1 million in a dark room, **Best viewing angle**, and Augmented Reality.

    There is a big difference in the real bandwidth in every 1080p monitor and some 1080pTV's tend to be poorer. The best test is an alternating black pixel test pattern possible with DPT.exe software and then examine or measure the actual contrast ratio with this pattern. It only needs to be 2:1 or contrast ratio to qualify which even up close starts to look more grey than B/W pixels, mainly due to pixel crosstalk. Going to 8k will improve the contrast ratio of 4k videos most importantly then some only if you have a field of view like sitting below the middle of a theatre. We have a cozy den with a 55" 1080p at a 70" range runnig from VGA with Kodi. That geometry works out to be like being close to the front seating at the theatre except having the middle of the screen at eye level standing ~16" off the floor. The reason theatre screens are less comfortable to the eye is the 24 fps flicker on our peripheral view or off centre when you have a wide viewing angle and sitting in the front rows of the theatre. Our eyes are much less sensitive to flicker on centre axis versus off axis and movies operate with projected light at a much lower frame rate than LCD's. This peripheral flicker sensitivity makes us more sensitive to the motion to alert us from danger. That being said out home video is usually watched with 60 Hz frame rate so, for home viewing, it should be better than std theatre.

    Our standard 1080p is almost 2k pixels wide with 1920 h * 1080 v pixels ( motion 2k video is 2048h * 1080v )

    Now, 4k is about twice the horizontal and 8k video is 4x but it depends on your true contrast ratio of alternating pixels and the uncompressed image content that makes it possible to get the full benefit of this pixel quantity.

    So viewing angle AND pixel quality are 2 major factors that can blur everyone's experience when comparing or commenting in addition with the quality of the source with compression that affects both signal bandwidth and motion bandwidth and there are many variables.

    The 4k monitors are now at the price of 2k monitors a few yrs ago but I expect 8k monitors to drop price by 50% every 3 yrs until the market is saturated and then stabilize.

    I want IMAX video quality with widescreen up close so I will be looking in the next year for my next upgrade and expect to see full immersive experiences in my retirement years with 4k video with the screen width only slightly greater than the distance.

    Now what would be really cooler than 3D glasses is the Augmented Reality like they had at Apple HQ using a mockup of the building where you can take a self-guided tour of the building (1 mile circle) with an iPad in any direction and zoom and even raise the roof and see people eating or taking yoga classes.

    - much better than 8k video or wearing glasses at a 3D theatre ... is 3D Augmented reality which already in video games that makes it so breathtaking in 3D. But for a movie that's pretty hard because the director and crew are behind the camera, but it's possible if they use a Google Maps camera.

    Tony
    EE since 1975
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2018 at 8:11 PM
  7. EClyde

    EClyde TS Evangelist Posts: 1,586   +566

    Just guessing...crap infrastructure?
     
    axiomatic13 likes this.
  8. Squid Surprise

    Squid Surprise TS Evangelist Posts: 2,098   +1,131

    While this is in no way defending ISPs - they are greedy SOBs.... to be fair, the US is a LOT bigger than most other nations, so providing coverage over the entire country should cost a BIT more...
     
    EClyde likes this.
  9. Badvok

    Badvok TS Maniac Posts: 261   +120

    Ah, I see that you are definitively stating that you are one of those who likes to look at pixels and jagged lines rather than pictures. I'll stick by what I said, if you can't see the difference on a 60" screen at 8' you need your eyes testing.
     
  10. Squid Surprise

    Squid Surprise TS Evangelist Posts: 2,098   +1,131

    I’m glad you feel your personal opinion supersedes actual facts and evidence... once again... 20/20 vision means you CANNOT tell the difference between 1080p and 4K at 8-10 feet until you have a 70” screen or larger... and any difference you DO see - assuming you have slightly better than 20/20 vision) would be marginal.

    The difference you see when looking at a 1080p tv and 4K tv today is invariably accounted for by HDR and image processor (that upscales) - not the resolution itself. Once again, THOSE are the reasons to buy a 4K tv, NOT the resolution.
     
    Burty117 likes this.
  11. Burty117

    Burty117 TechSpot Chancellor Posts: 3,348   +1,130

    No sorry, you are wrong, I'm a proper stickler when it comes to Audio / Visual quality, I do notice the difference between 1080p and 4k. On my 55inch TV sat 8 feet away, it is very hard to tell the difference, that isn't even opinon at this point, it is scientific fact. If you're claiming to see the difference and its worlds apart, you are lying, that's also, a fact.

    EDIT: I have been planning to take a photo of my setup and measure properly how far I sit from the TV and post it all here but I've been stuck in airports.

    Double Edit: I replied at the same time XD
     
    Squid Surprise likes this.
  12. Badvok

    Badvok TS Maniac Posts: 261   +120

    Nope, it is however a scientific fact that if you can't see something that is near 1mm wide at 8' your eyesight is in trouble. (1mm = pixel size on 60" FHD screen.) My opinion however is that I don't want to see individual pixels, I want an image with apparently smooth edges.
     
  13. Squid Surprise

    Squid Surprise TS Evangelist Posts: 2,098   +1,131

    A pixel on a 60" 1080p screen is actually just under .7mm.... and the only way you are going to be able to tell the difference between 4k (the pixel would be about .35mm) is by the amount of brightness or contrast. This is generally far superior in a 4k TV - NOT because of the resolution, but because of the quality of the processor, HDR, etc...

    So anyone who REALLY thinks they can tell the difference between 4k and 1080p on a 60" screen at 8 feet either has the eyes of an eagle, or is simply wrong.

    In your case... I'm betting on "simply wrong" :)
     
    Burty117 likes this.
  14. Lew Zealand

    Lew Zealand TS Addict Posts: 186   +143

    Instead of this back and forth, anyone can just test this at home for fun and profit. OK maybe only the first.

    Hook your computer with true 4K output to your 4K TV and set it to 4K. 4K @30p is fine as this is a static test. Load this web page:

    http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/clock_phase.php

    Step back from your TV until you can no longer see the individual pixels and only see a gray field. If you have a 1080p TV, try the same.

    Now you know how far to sit to no longer perceive any pixel structure.
     
    senketsu, Burty117 and Squid Surprise like this.
  15. Squid Surprise

    Squid Surprise TS Evangelist Posts: 2,098   +1,131

    This only applies if you actually have a 4K tv.... but I’d love to hear honest results from people who do.... on my 50” 1080p tv, I saw a field of grey at about 9 feet....

    I actually ordered a 65” tv so I’ll be happy to post back in a couple of weeks once it shows up :)
     

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