US warns EU over regulation, says fines on American tech giants could have consequences

[pnntmp]

"fines on American tech giants could have consequences" - yeah, it objectively makes EU a better place.


Sure, I can point towards ARM being at the forefront of AI research. Or the very well known ElevenLabs.

ARM is owned by SoftBank, so it's a UK company as much as DeepMind is. ElevenLabs was started in the US and it's HQ is in New York.
So try again. I'm sure if you dig long enough you'll find some anecdotal example, but I guess you get my point.

 

[urielejh]

Poor "americans", so afraid... lol

 

[Endymio]

• - Total Nominal GDP: The U.S. economy is roughly 50% larger than the 27-member EU economy.
• - Growth: Between 2008 and 2024, U.S. GDP grew by 87% while EU GDP grew by just 13.5%.

The US GDP is almost 50% larger than all 27 nations of the EU combined, despite the EU having almost 30% more people to divide it up amongst. How to make up the shortfall? Brussels has devised a crafty strategy -- craft vague legal regulations, allow firms to 'violate' them for decades, then issue gargantuan fines to effectively force the US to subsidize their tax revenues.

 

[GodisanAtheist]

• - Total Nominal GDP: The U.S. economy is roughly 50% larger than the 27-member EU economy.
• - Growth: Between 2008 and 2024, U.S. GDP grew by 87% while EU GDP grew by just 13.5%.

The US GDP is almost 50% larger than all 27 nations of the EU combined, despite the EU having almost 30% more people to divide it up amongst. How to make up the shortfall? Brussels has devised a crafty strategy -- craft vague legal regulations, allow firms to 'violate' them for decades, then issue gargantuan fines to effectively force the US to subsidize their tax revenues.

-Great, so if companies aren't interested in doing business there, they don't have to. What's the US government got to do with it?

Yet so far, the EU is a large enough market that not only do companies comply with their "BS" regs, those often end up helping Americans as well (I'm thinking things like right of repair, enhanced privacy, enhanced consumer choice).

As Americans, we seem to have forgotten that our government can and should protect citizens from predatory corporations, not work for them.

 

[Endymio]

-Great, so if companies aren't interested in doing business there, they don't have to. What's the US government got to do with it?

You miss the point. These companies have been doing business in the EU for decades without problem. If the EU really had an issue with their practices, they'd pass a clear, law to that effect, or at least send a formal legal interpretation to them warning them to make specific alterations. Instead, the EU prefers to allow it ... until they can issue a retroactive fine for all those past decades of activity. More money in it that way. And, of course, the LAST thing the EU wants to do is actually drive away these tech giants ... their own populace would revolt if they were denied those services.

Be honest: these cases are absurd. Accusing a company of "favoring its own products over its competitors"? What firm doesn't do that?

those [regs] often end up helping Americans as well (I'm thinking things like right of repair, enhanced privacy, enhanced consumer choice).

You've forgotten that all regulations carry a cost, and that cost is ultimately paid for not by corporations, but by their customers. Take this phone battery idiocy. Apple has to pay a lawyer to read the regulation, interpret it, and advise the firm how to comply ... and with all the "reinterpretation" the EU does on their own regulations, that can be a long, expensive process. Then engineers need to redesign the case to allow opening (adding extra parts such as screws), add clips and a connector to allow battery replacement. Oh, and add in the higher failure rate if the now non-permanently sealed case fails in a wet environment, or the now non-permanently mounted battery breaks loose when the phone is dropped a couple feet.

I've had 2 to 4 cell phones active continuously since the 1990s, and never had to replace a battery once. Not ever. Yet now I'm paying for this feature. I don't know if it's an extra 5 cents or an extra $50 per phone, and -- here's the crucial point -- once it's mandated by law, we will never, ever know. Before the law existing, some firms did indeed make phones with replaceable batteries and, thanks to that free-market approach, we knew exactly what we were paying for that feature. Government regulation didn't increase our choices -- it removed them.

 

[GodisanAtheist]

You miss the point. These companies have been doing business in the EU for decades without problem. If the EU really had an issue with their practices, they'd pass a clear, law to that effect, or at least send a formal legal interpretation to them warning them to make specific alterations. Instead, the EU prefers to allow it ... until they can issue a retroactive fine for all those past decades of activity. More money in it that way. And, of course, the LAST thing the EU wants to do is actually drive away these tech giants ... their own populace would revolt if they were denied those services.

Be honest: these cases are absurd. Accusing a company of "favoring its own products over its competitors"? What firm doesn't do that?

-Why does the US government need to threaten other countries over their absurdity. If these regs are too onerous, then the companies have no obligation to do business in these markets. They choose to continue doing business, so be it.

The US has never been very good at enforcing it's anti-monopoly laws, and there is simply a different price to be paid for that.

You've forgotten that all regulations carry a cost, and that cost is ultimately paid for not by corporations, but by their customers. Take this phone battery idiocy. Apple has to pay a lawyer to read the regulation, interpret it, and advise the firm how to comply ... and with all the "reinterpretation" the EU does on their own regulations, that can be a long, expensive process. Then engineers need to redesign the case to allow opening (adding extra parts such as screws), add clips and a connector to allow battery replacement. Oh, and add in the higher failure rate if the now non-permanently sealed case fails in a wet environment, or the now non-permanently mounted battery breaks loose when the phone is dropped a couple feet.

I've had 2 to 4 cell phones active continuously since the 1990s, and never had to replace a battery once. Not ever. Yet now I'm paying for this feature. I don't know if it's an extra 5 cents or an extra $50 per phone, and -- here's the crucial point -- once it's mandated by law, we will never, ever know. Before the law existing, some firms did indeed make phones with replaceable batteries and, thanks to that free-market approach, we knew exactly what we were paying for that feature. Government regulation didn't increase our choices -- it removed them.

- Everything has a cost. If we could strike one word from the English language, it should be the word "free". Free trade cost us something even if it made goods cheaper in dollars and cents. Tariffs cost us something in both direct cost and indirect efficiency costs.

Yes, regs impose a burden. The absence of regs imposes a different set of burdens born by a different set of people, some monetary and some not. Obligating platforms to give competing products and services a fair shake costs something, but allowing platforms to promote their homegrown solutions at the expense of the competition costs something else. Same for digital privacy, same for right to repair, etc.

At the end of the day its simply a judgement call/business decision regulatory bodies have to take. Then the businesses affected by these regs have their own judgement call/business decisions to make. Then lastly the consumer has their own decisions to make.

 

[Endymio]

-Why does the US government need to threaten other countries over their absurdity.

You yourself already answered that question, when you noted the government has a responsibility to protect its citizens. These are US firms, which employ hundreds of thousands of US citizens, and are owned by literally every person in the US who has a 401K. When Europe steals billions of dollars from them, they're stealing from all of us.

At the end of the day its simply a judgement call/business decision regulatory bodies have to take.

You're still not getting it. The EU didn't pass a regulation these firms violated. There are tens of thousand of EU firms which "prioritize their own products above those of their competitors" -- none of those firms are being fined. Not one.

You won't find one specific regulation in the EU code these firms broke. Instead, the EU has chosen to "interpret" vague guidelines against them. Even worse, after making that interpretation, it chose to retroactively apply it to decades of past conduct, in order to justify a monstrous fine.

 

[Puiu]

ARM is owned by SoftBank, so it's a UK company as much as DeepMind is. ElevenLabs was started in the US and it's HQ is in New York.
So try again. I'm sure if you dig long enough you'll find some anecdotal example, but I guess you get my point.

The acquisition of shares didn't change where ARM is registered, how it was founded and who works at ARM. It's still an UK company with a public IPO.

ElevenLabs was founded in London with strong ties to Poland (because the founders were Polish engineers Piotr Dąbkowski and Mati Staniszewski) and with an office in New York later opened. So please don't lie.

ELEVEN LABS LTD - 2026 Company Profile - Tracxn

ELEVEN LABS LTD is the legal entity of ElevenLabs and Eleven Music.

tracxn.com

 

[Puiu]

You yourself already answered that question, when you noted the government has a responsibility to protect its citizens. These are US firms, which employ hundreds of thousands of US citizens, and are owned by literally every person in the US who has a 401K. When Europe steals billions of dollars from them, they're stealing from all of us.


You're still not getting it. The EU didn't pass a regulation these firms violated. There are tens of thousand of EU firms which "prioritize their own products above those of their competitors" -- none of those firms are being fined. Not one.

You won't find one specific regulation in the EU code these firms broke. Instead, the EU has chosen to "interpret" vague guidelines against them. Even worse, after making that interpretation, it chose to retroactively apply it to decades of past conduct, in order to justify a monstrous fine.

The US isn't protecting anything but profits for the 1% like pedo trump.

"When Europe steals billions of dollars from them, they're stealing from all of us." - We aren't stealing anything. It's US companies that want to steal or break the law. It's a fact and this has been happening for a very long time.

If the US had even 1% of the employee protection we enjoy in Europe then you might have been right. But alas, the US protect companies and the rich, not ordinary people.

"none of those firms are being fined. Not one." - Because they are following the law. All EU companies must follow the same rules and regulations as US companies that want to operate within the EU. And do you think that EU companies aren't fine all the time? You've clearly been living under a rock, or in your US "nothing else exists" bubble.

Here you go, these are the just the GDPR fines:

Fines Database — GDPR Enforcement Tracker

List and overview of fines and penalties under the General Data Protection Regulation (GDPR). Searchable database of 3195 enforcement actions across the EU and EEA.

www.enforcementtracker.com

Why do you think US companies should be immune to EU laws? That makes zero sense.

 

[Endymio]

The US isn't protecting anything but profits for the 1% like pedo trump.

Just stop. Lies are bad enough; they're even more offensive when originating from a fascist Romanian regime.

When Europe steals billions of dollars from them, they're stealing from all of us." - We aren't stealing anything.

You certainly are stealing, to support the flailing EU economy. If you want to challenge this fact, explain why all the countless EU firms that "favor their own products and services" aren't being fine. The law in question bans "distorting competition" -- which means whatever the EU says it means.

If the US had even 1% of the employee protection we enjoy in Europe then you might have been right.

If the US had the "employee protection regulations", we have your 50% higher unemployment and 50% lower salaries as well.

 

[Puiu]

Just stop. Lies are bad enough; they're even more offensive when originating from a fascist Romanian regime.


You certainly are stealing, to support the flailing EU economy. If you want to challenge this fact, explain why all the countless EU firms that "favor their own products and services" aren't being fine. The law in question bans "distorting competition" -- which means whatever the EU says it means.


If the US had the "employee protection regulations", we have your 50% higher unemployment and 50% lower salaries as well.

I see that you are still defending pedo trump like always, denying history and what's on paper because you can't come up with a better excuse.

"You certainly are stealing, to support the flailing EU economy." - pfff hahahaha. the US is burning and the EU is somehow "failing" in your mind. You are literally forced to do deals with the enemy, like Putin, because of the huge mess trump made. It's just pathetic to see the US crumble like this.

"If the US had the "employee protection regulations"" - So you admit it, the US doesn't have proper regulations like the rest of the world. Thanks for sharing with us that human lives is not what you or the US cares about. And mentioning "unemployment", when looking at your statistics... ouch.

 

[Endymio]

"You certainly are stealing, to support the flailing EU economy." - pfff hahahaha. the US is burning and the EU is somehow "failing" in your mind.

The facts say otherwise:

"...From 2008 to 2023, US GDP grew by 87% compared to 13.5% in the EU, resulting in EU GDP falling to roughly 67% of US GDP...."

You are literally forced to do deals with the enemy, like Putin, because of the huge mess trump made.

It was Joe Biden who went on live TV and green-lighted a "minor incursion" by Russia into Ukraine.

USA Today: Jan 21, 2022: "Ukrainian president rebukes Biden over remarks that a Russian 'minor incursion' may go unpunished...US allies in Europe and leading Democratic lawmakers also pushed back on Biden's remarks..."

CNN, Jan 20, 2022: "Ukrainian President pushes back on Biden: ‘There are no minor incursions ... Officials in Kyiv were “stunned” by Biden’s comments. Ukraine’s foreign minister, Dmytro Kuleba, said that Biden’s comments served as an invitation to attack by Moscow...."

I see that you are still defending pedo trump like always, denying history and what's on paper

What's on paper is three million pages of 16 years of FBI investigation, which found not the slightest shred of evidence to support such a brainless politically-motivated accusation.

 

[wiyosaya]

Only on the Democratic side. The Republicans are not pure snow but the Dems are crazy for the most part

Yes. That's why conservatives cheered the possibility of the Impeachment of Dementia Don.

CPAC Host Stunned as Crowd Erupts in Cheers for Trump Impeachment

Attendees at this years Conservative Political Action Conference seem more lost than ever.

newrepublic.com

That really must throw a wrench into the lives of Trump Disciple Syndrome sufferers.

 

[Puiu]

The facts say otherwise:

"...From 2008 to 2023, US GDP grew by 87% compared to 13.5% in the EU, resulting in EU GDP falling to roughly 67% of US GDP...."


It was Joe Biden who went on live TV and green-lighted a "minor incursion" by Russia into Ukraine.

USA Today: Jan 21, 2022: "Ukrainian president rebukes Biden over remarks that a Russian 'minor incursion' may go unpunished...US allies in Europe and leading Democratic lawmakers also pushed back on Biden's remarks..."

CNN, Jan 20, 2022: "Ukrainian President pushes back on Biden: ‘There are no minor incursions ... Officials in Kyiv were “stunned” by Biden’s comments. Ukraine’s foreign minister, Dmytro Kuleba, said that Biden’s comments served as an invitation to attack by Moscow...."


What's on paper is three million pages of 16 years of FBI investigation, which found not the slightest shred of evidence to support such a brainless politically-motivated accusation.

Nothing you wrote says anything about the current state of the US. Yeah, under Biden you had a great economy, now though.... it's in the dumpster. Thanks for confirming that Biden > Trump.

"It was Joe Biden who went on live TV and green-lighted a "minor incursion" by Russia into Ukraine." - need I remind you that it was Trump who illegally withheld support for Ukraine and also blackmailed the Ukrainian president for personal gains? it was such a pathetic situation that allowed Russia to gain massive support in eastern europe... but hey you didn't know that because you don't live here; all you know is that pedophiles must be defended. And you compare that to something said in an interview?

In case you didn't actually open that article:
"It depends on what (Russia) does. It's one thing if it's a minor incursion and we end up having to fight about we have to do and not do," Biden said in his remarks.

And what happened after the invasion started? Republicans as per usual tried to block help.

Here are the 11 Republican senators who voted against the $40 billion Ukraine aid package

GOP Sen. Josh Hawley said his opposition to the aid package was "not isolationism" but "nationalism" in justifying his vote against the aid package.

www.businessinsider.com

"I do support Ukraine's efforts to protect their people and their country, and it's just so tragic what's happening. But inflation is running amok. We are not protecting our own borders." - Cynthia Lummis of Wyoming

These excuses from the GOP are just pathetic.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/06/us/politics/senate-ukraine-aid-bill.html

"which found not the slightest shred of evidence to support such a brainless politically-motivated accusation" - except that there is, just that the FBI refused to investigate. you have reputable witness (according to FBI) who collaborated with the FBI and who accused Trump. This is all on top of all of the other evidence of trump visiting the island, being best buds with Epstein and trump himself admitting to being a pedophile when he intentionally watched 14-15yo girls naked at Miss Teen USA (girls who also came forward and accused trump of doing exactly what he said)

This is the pedophile you support. He's a PEDOPHILE who admitting to being a pedophile. (this is on top being found as liable of SA in court and having tens of women accusing him of rape and SA)

 

[Endymio]

Yeah, under Biden you had a great economy

You mean the $5 gas and 9.1% inflation? No thanks.

it was Trump who illegally withheld support for Ukraine and also blackmailed the Ukrainian president for personal gains?

"Blackmail" requires one to have knowledge of illicit activity. Are you suggesting that Zelensky participated in the Biden's illegal scheme to extort Ukraine into shielding Hunter and his Burisma benefactor from criminal prosecution?

As the inane lie that Trump "withheld support", it's long been confirmed the DoD followed standard procedure in the brief hold they placed on issuing arms to Ukraine -- a hold only necessary because Obama-Biden refused to do so, making these the first weapons sent to that country:

AP, April 3, 2018: The Trump administration is sending 210 Javelin anti-tank missiles to Ukraine, providing the government with a powerful new weapon to use against Russian-backed separatists...The Obama administration had refused, wary of putting weaponry into an ongoing conflict...."

it was such a pathetic situation that allowed Russia to gain massive support in eastern europe...

Get your facts straight. Russia made its first gains in 2015 -- under Obama/Biden. It made its second gains in 2022 -- under Biden again. Under Trump, Russia gained nothing. Ukraine, however, gained billions of dollars of US weapons that Obama/Biden refused them.

In case you didn't actually open that article:
"It depends on what (Russia) does. It's one thing if it's a minor incursion and we end up having to fight about we have to do and not do," Biden said in his remarks.

A remark that even Ukraine itself and our allies in Europe loudly stated was an invitation to attack by Russia -- an invitation Russia accepted.

you have reputable witness (according to FBI) who collaborated with the FBI and who accused Trump.

You've repeated this lie how many times now? No such thing happened. There was no "witness", reputable or otherwise, and Trump never visited Epstein Island ... though plenty of liberals did, including Prince Andrew.

this is on top being found as liable of SA in court and having tens of women accusing him of rape and SA)

More lies? Trump was found liable of "defamation" in a civil court. And the "tens of women" were a handful of anti-Trumpers with absurd stories they never reported to the police or even their own family members. During everything the French Reign of Terror and the Romanian pro-Stalinist purges, countless Leftists accused political enemies of false crimes. If you were in the US today, you'd be accusing Trump of raping you too.

 

[RudyBob]

Yes. That's why conservatives cheered the possibility of the Impeachment of Dementia Don.

CPAC Host Stunned as Crowd Erupts in Cheers for Trump Impeachment

Attendees at this years Conservative Political Action Conference seem more lost than ever.

newrepublic.com

That really must throw a wrench into the lives of Trump Disciple Syndrome sufferers.

It's news but is it represented accurately? If it wasn't for lies you would not be able to post politically.

Yes. That's why conservatives cheered the possibility of the Impeachment of Dementia Don.

CPAC Host Stunned as Crowd Erupts in Cheers for Trump Impeachment

Attendees at this years Conservative Political Action Conference seem more lost than ever.

newrepublic.com

That really must throw a wrench into the lives of Trump Disciple Syndrome sufferers.

You are San Francisco. Good Luck but you will need more