Used electric vehicle prices now lower than comparable gas cars

[maxxcool7421]

The market is saturated
a lot of people live in apartments or rentals an cannot access or install chargers
people who buy EVs dont buy news ones every 4-5 years like gas owners

the market is limited, and will be for a few generations. that is all this is....

 

[wiyosaya]

Well, technically, the Prius is not an electric vehicle, it's a hybrid, so the battery doesn't see that kind of wear. Also, replacing that battery is way cheaper than replacing the battery for a BEV.

Having said that, you're right that, these cars should be more reliable, but when you need to replace that kind of stuff, your wallet ends up bleeding, or you end up buying another car.

Believe what you want, however, people in the know disagree "battery lifetime"represents a significant issue.

https://www.motortrend.com/features/ev-battery-lifespan-degradation-replacement-cost-study
https://www.cnet.com/home/electric-...ce-ev-batteries-but-how-often-do-you-need-to/

 

[GhostLegion]

NEW EVs are currently being sold cheap too.

Dealerships are scrambling to move EVs off the lot before the credit expires at the end of this month. (Losing some money now is better than more money later.)

If you are potentially in the market, this is a good month to buy.

My god is it a good time. I convinced my wife to trade in our ‘22 civic for a ‘25 Ioniq 6. Granted we went from financing to leasing but it shaved $50 off the monthly note, we got $4k in car equity back as cash, and the power company is giving a $1k rebate for leasing one. Sure I’ll need to turn the car into the dealer in 2 years but by that point, EVs will likely have gotten better still or the used market will have gotten more supply with lower prices. The EV is cheaper to run, costing $5 per “fill” at home with the level 2 charger paid for by that power company rebate. Insurance only went up $20/month which I get back in fuel savings easy.

My only wish is that I did it sooner because I would’ve been eligible for a tax credit for installing that level 2 system until Jan 1, 2025. Ah well, missed opportunity.

 

[Theinsanegamer]

Not really, and you don't have to replace ALL of the battery. Also, it's not like EVs have more that can go wrong with them than a normal ICE car. You can replace the battery, or even just a few modules and you basically have a brand new car.

Nothing you wrote here has any relation with what I was calling out as being out of touch. Saying those buying "on the cheap" dont care about range or having low battery life is absolutely wrong. there are, believe it or not, millions of people whom cannot afford to spend more money on transportation and shop cheap because it is what they can afford.

"just replace a few modules" is a major undertaking on most EVS, hence why battery replacements are so expensive. You assume that the modules can be accessed without opening the battery (destroying its watertight properties) and that you just have a nearby shop that can do this on a whim and program the car afterwards. Oh yeah, and with labor all this will cost more then the used EV itself.

Most of the time what totals ICE cars is the transmission. EVs don't have a transmission.

Where are you getting this from? Most ICE cars will happily run hundreds of thousands of miles without having to replace the transmission. What totals most cars in the rust belt is, well, rust. In areas without salt, you still regularly see 90s or even 80s cars rolling around.

 

[scavengerspc]

Could their prices be going down because people DON’T want them?

Look at record sales of new ones (and used) to answer your own question.
Then my next post.

Electric vehicle sales grew 25% worldwide but just 6% in North America

North America has bought 1.3 million EVs this year; China has bought 7.6 million.

arstechnica.com

Not really, and you don't have to replace ALL of the battery. Also, it's not like EVs have more that can go wrong with them than a normal ICE car. You can replace the battery, or even just a few modules and you basically have a brand new car. Most of the time what totals ICE cars is the transmission. EVs don't have a transmission.

That is true for the CVT equipped vehicles, that I am sure of.
My Uncle's Traverse CVT transmission went bad and it cost him $7100.

But the rest of your post? Can't you picture the know nothing's with their fingers in their ears yelling lalalalalala!

 

[scavengerspc]

From Feb:

Used EV Market Volume Reaches New High, So What’s Next?

The used electric vehicle market has already reached an all-time high. What are the trends, drivers, and things to watch?

www.forbes.com

From 6 months later:

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/09/13/business/used-electric-vehicles.html

"Electric vehicles on the used market often cost less than comparable gasoline models, making the technology affordable to many more buyers."

"Sales of used electric vehicles rose 40 percent in July from a year earlier, according to Cox Automotive, a research firm."

I know everyone wanted me to hold off longer, but sometimes I just get that bug to laugh
as the real meaning of the statistic was completely lost on, some. Apologies to everyone that wanted me to let the Donkeys speak longer. (I think my favorite is "the market is saturated").

Remember all the "let the market decide" folks? (The dumbest statement in all economic study) Well ok, it has.
July is the most recent data, but I doubt anything has changed much in 8 weeks.
As the market always dictates, higher sales cause price drops. Of course as this continues (and it will) since this is the used car market prices will eventually start to climb again.

 

[yRaz]

Nothing you wrote here has any relation with what I was calling out as being out of touch. Saying those buying "on the cheap" dont care about range or having low battery life is absolutely wrong. there are, believe it or not, millions of people whom cannot afford to spend more money on transportation and shop cheap because it is what they can afford.

"just replace a few modules" is a major undertaking on most EVS, hence why battery replacements are so expensive. You assume that the modules can be accessed without opening the battery (destroying its watertight properties) and that you just have a nearby shop that can do this on a whim and program the car afterwards. Oh yeah, and with labor all this will cost more then the used EV itself.

Where are you getting this from? Most ICE cars will happily run hundreds of thousands of miles without having to replace the transmission. What totals most cars in the rust belt is, well, rust. In areas without salt, you still regularly see 90s or even 80s cars rolling around.

The modules are watertight and it's usually the enclosed that's watertight. If you want the enclosure to be water tight then it is as simple as putting some sealant or a silicon gasket around it. But the modules are watertight as every battery. Further, regular batteries in cars have been almost never been weather sealed and it's never been an issue.

Going on to transmissions, I see our work trucks a new transmission every~50,000 miles and anything with a cvt is basically guaranteed to fail. The other side to "regular" automatic transmissions is that the friction material will clog up the oil passages ways which are used for shifting gears. This material is usually suspended in the ATF, but if it sits for long periods of time then the friction material will sit in the oil pan, turn into bigger chunks and will flake off making it easier to clog the oil channels.

Finally, concerning rust. I, too, live in the rust belt. But my beaters have all previously had the spray foam and bondo treatment. Although, my ex wife had a habit of getting drunk and wrecking all my old cars before they ever failed an inspection

 

[hahahanoobs]

I love watching the success of EV's just destroy its haters online.

 

[RudyBob]

Rudy, against your superhero's cars? What happened?

I liked the Batmobile but I was 12

 

[BadThad]

This purely a result of the panic created under Biden and his promise to ban ICE cars nationwide. The manufacturers upped their game and moved timetables forward so they didn't lose sales. Now that reality has set in and ICE cars will NEVER be "banned" in the USA, they're stuck with excessive inventory. You cannot cram or force a product on the public even at a governments behest. Especially at $50,000 - a product most cannot afford anyway.

 

[BadThad]

Could their prices be going down because people DON’T want them?

Supply and demand… the used market tends to have cars people don’t want…

SOME people want them, few can afford them and the manufacturers made too many to serve that market. The real problem is a government trying to force the private sector into making them, so they did, at the risk of losing sales when ICE is "banned" (e.g. see Commiefonia and Biden's promise to kill oil production). Now the market is saturated and most EV buyers already have one.

 

[BadThad]

Tell that to anyone who got in on the ground floor. There was a story about 5 years ago about someone who bought a 2011 Focus EV. The range on this gem was only 76 mi to begin with. They were quoted $10k to replace the battery after the warning lights lit up and it quit running.. The family couldn't afford it, so it sat at the local Ford dealer for a while. A grandparent agreed to foot the bill and told them to go ahead. A few days later, they got the call that the battery was obsolete and there was no way to fix it.

Keep in mind, unlike a phone, cars and trucks go through stringent crash and safety tests, so the chances of a third party battery maker that would go through the testing and safety qualifications will be nil. You can't just put the latest cells in and call it good, if the battery specifications don't match, the powertrain controller can't properly monitor and charge the battery.

Thanks for that story. I'm sure it's a familiar one globally. Many EV buyers on the lower side of the income curve can probably cannot afford a major repair. Even if they manage to stretch a battery out to 7-10 years (optimistic), the vehicle will be essentially totaled at that point.

To be fair, this also happens to ICE cars, look at any mechanics shops parking lot. Many folks cannot afford to pay move than a couple hundred bucks to fix their car. When it gets over $1000, lots of people lose their car to a mechanics lien.

That said, the major advantage with ICE is it's cheap - with the exception of the engine/transmission. But even those can be easily sourced for fairly cheap from the salvage market.

 

[GhostLegion]

This purely a result of the panic created under Biden and his promise to ban ICE cars nationwide. The manufacturers upped their game and moved timetables forward so they didn't lose sales. Now that reality has set in and ICE cars will NEVER be "banned" in the USA, they're stuck with excessive inventory. You cannot cram or force a product on the public even at a governments behest. Especially at $50,000 - a product most cannot afford anyway.

On the contrary, I stepped up purchase of an EV because of Trump. I wanted to get an EV before the price went up a considerable sum. Had the tax credit not been repealed, I likely wouldn’t have been able to convince my wife that now is the time to do it. She hates change on general principle. The economy isn’t doing so hot right now and tariff rate uncertainty creates incentive for manufacturers to move as much metal while they can before their profitability gets any worse.

 

[BadThad]

Research from EV battery monitoring company Recurrent shows the average cost of replacing an EV battery today ranges between $6,500 and $20,000 depending on the specific model.

On the contrary, I stepped up purchase of an EV because of Trump. I wanted to get an EV before the price went up a considerable sum. Had the tax credit not been repealed, I likely wouldn’t have been able to convince my wife that now is the time to do it. She hates change on general principle. The economy isn’t doing so hot right now and tariff rate uncertainty creates incentive for manufacturers to move as much metal while they can before their profitability gets any worse.

Hey, I don't blame you if you've been in the market. You certainly are not alone. There will be temporary, small surge leading to the tax credit deadline. However, it won't be near enough to clear out the inventory - which is going to languish on lots for months.

Now the dealers have a bigger problem - winter. Thousands of EV's sitting outside exposed to extreme temperature cycles. I hear that's great for batteries. lol

 

[BadThad]

Going on to transmissions, I see our work trucks a new transmission every~50,000 miles and anything with a cvt is basically guaranteed to fail. The other side to "regular" automatic transmissions is that the friction material will clog up the oil passages ways which are used for shifting gears. This material is usually suspended in the ATF, but if it sits for long periods of time then the friction material will sit in the oil pan, turn into bigger chunks and will flake off making it easier to clog the oil channels.

I've seen transmissions total a car. I was close on a Maxima when I considered the "book value" and it was $3k more than the new trans.

You must admit though, automatic transmissions generally well exceed 100k miles. I've always swapped fluid at around that and had excellent results up to 200k with no issues. Sadly, I've also had Ford/Chrysler transmissions fail at 60k. But easily found boneyard replacements for $1000. Far cheaper than any battery pack.

 

[yRaz]

I've seen transmissions total a car. I was close on a Maxima when I considered the "book value" and it was $3k more than the new trans.

You must admit though, automatic transmissions generally well exceed 100k miles. I've always swapped fluid at around that and had excellent results up to 200k with no issues. Sadly, I've also had Ford/Chrysler transmissions fail at 60k. But easily found boneyard replacements for $1000. Far cheaper than any battery pack.

luckily, CVT's are losing popularity and it's mostly because their design is excessive wear. They used conical disks and a friction push belt to transmit torque and, regardless of brand, they tend to fail inside the warranty peroid and have to be replaced by the manufacture making them very expensive.
And, sure batteries can be an expensive repair, but it is one you can play for. Most of the people talking about this issue in this thread sound like DIY'ers. The first thing I do when looking at new(to me) cars is look at the common issues that occured over their lifetime and which problems I'm willing to deal with or set money aside for for the repair. If one car has 80% capacity at 500k instead of 200k then it;s safe to say the car will rust out or get totaled before the battery fails. I'm not trying to say that this ISN'T an issue, just one that has been largely overblown at this point.

The thing with batteries is that progress is slow, but people have been complaining almost for 20 years about battery degredation. Many of the battery tagnologies that people were talking about 10-15 years ago are the most manuactured batteries today. Battery degredation is not the issue it once was.

One final note is that insurance companies like to total EV's because possible damage to the battery in an accident. They don't look at third party shops who are actualyl very skilled in repairing them, they look at the manufactures service bulletin for how to repair these problems and base the estimate off of that. I once was in an accident in my 2009 hond accord. I told the insurance adjuster to give me less money and not total the car because I know how to fix it. I'm not kidding when I fixed my own car with a new sub frame I got from a junk yard and some ratchet straps to straighten out some of the damage done to my body. Would I but that car? not, but it was a work beater that I put stupid amounts of miles on and got filed with dirt from my work clothes so in that instance, it was fine.

I think a big step we can all make is to not buy EVs with digital locks put in so that certain repairs can't be made to it.

 

[bviktor]

That's obvious. EVs improve WAY faster than ICEVs that had like a century to mature.

So that makes even just a few years old EVs outdated compared to current offerings. Hence the depreciation. They become obsolete. It's like how smartphones were 20 years ago. Every year was a giant leap forward. Nowadays? Buy one and you won't be missing ANYTHING for at least 3 years.

Just look at the "average range of EVs" charts, or "average charging speed of EVs". Every aspect of them is improving very swiftly. It'll settle down - maybe in 10 years.

OTOH what improvements do ICEVs get? They only get more and more complex, for those precious ever-increasing repair bills. Fuel economy only improves if they add EV tech to the mix, the rest is just new software and new sensors (I.e. assistance features). But that has nothing to do with the engine.

 

[scavengerspc]

@BadThad Well first off nice to see you. I don't know if you stopped posting for a while or just cut way back, but good to see you again.

SOME people want them, few can afford them and the manufacturers made too many to serve that market.

So I just wanted to point out was that as far as affordability, the point of the article was the EV versions are cheaper than the smoke pump variations now. And the gap has closed with new also. Check the price difference between equally equipped EV and smoker F150 and Silverado.

 

[wiyosaya]

Going on to transmissions, I see our work trucks a new transmission every~50,000 miles and anything with a cvt is basically guaranteed to fail.

I had my 06' Prius with CVT for almost 18-years, 118K miles. I had no transmission problems.

Finally, concerning rust. I, too, live in the rust belt. But my beaters have all previously had the spray foam and bondo treatment. Although, my ex wife had a habit of getting drunk and wrecking all my old cars before they ever failed an inspection

Rust was one of the reasons I got rid of the 06'. The other reasons were maintenance cost unrelated to the CVT.

 

[wiyosaya]

SOME people want them, few can afford them and the manufacturers made too many to serve that market. The real problem is a government trying to force the private sector into making them, so they did, at the risk of losing sales when ICE is "banned" (e.g. see Commiefonia and Biden's promise to kill oil production). Now the market is saturated and most EV buyers already have one.

I think you'll find that regardless of which way the political wind is blowing, the industry has a mind of its own. Manufacturers have invested a considerable amount of money into EV production, and I don't think they'll turn back anytime soon. To quote Kosh from Babylon 5 - "The avalanche has started. It's too late for the pebbles to vote."

That said, the major advantage with ICE is it's cheap - with the exception of the engine/transmission. But even those can be easily sourced for fairly cheap from the salvage market.

Yeah, the engine and transmission are the most expensive parts of the car, and not everyone is a DIY person who will go to a scrap yard to buy an engine should their car need one. In an EV, the "engine" and the "transmission" are typically not complicated and can be maintenance free. No oil changes, etc.

Despite your speculations, EV ownership is, overall, less expensive due in part to substantially lower maintenance costs.

Like I said, I highly doubt manufacturers will turn away from EV production just because the current administration would like to take the US back to the year 500 or so.

 

[wiyosaya]

I liked the Batmobile but I was 12

Why not re-awaken your youth? https://www.amazon.com/Hot-Wheels-GJR35-66-Batmobile/dp/B08529FPDF

 

[jeffbert]

Suppose that most people switch to EVs. The govt. both state & national will need to find a new source of tax revenue, since so few people are still driving oil-powered cars. I do not know how much of a gallon of gas goes to govt. taxes, but they will likely need to find a way to tax EVs. I suppose that will increase the cost of owning them; perhaps not much, perhaps not enough to become an annoyance.

Will the govt. even want to eliminate regular cars?

 

[JamesBlond]

Old tanks available for sale cheaper than comparable new tanks, cannon needs replacing, firing pin does not work, cost of new tracks more than tanks value, needs new engine....

We know how stupid people can be

 

[wiyosaya]

Here's an example of a manufacturer being "all in" on EVs regardless of how the political winds are blowing - https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/sma...-will-be-global-manufacturing-hub/vi-AA1MGD2y
Note: The facility is in the US State Georgia.

 

[wiyosaya]

We know how stupid people can be

Yes, we have demonstrations of that every day.