Visa, Mastercard, and PayPal suspend Russian operations in response to Ukraine invasion

Puiu

Posts: 5,550   +4,518
TechSpot Elite
Zelensky has put opposition in prison and also shut down opposition tv networks, he's no saint either.
If you are talking about Poroshenko's treason case then that's not yet over. Unlike what is happening in Rusia they'll give him a proper trial.
 

Geralt

Posts: 1,128   +1,750
So nuanced and reasoned - Let's address your reasons one by one.
DONE!

Maybe you are anti-trade -and believe in protectionism . Global Trade done right is a win for everyone - with proviso care taken for safety, environment , some fair-trade help etc

Do you even know how the DOW and Nasdaq even work - it's about future earnings and growth - that's your 401ks or whatever Americans call their pensions
China is now controlled because it needs western consumers - it needs to opium of economic progress to stop political unrest in the masses . If China was completely cut off - think how much worse human rights abuses in ethnic areas would be .
America needs a growing consumer base world wide .
Do not cloud it with self-sufficiency to weather storms .
USSR failed , because it failed economically - if could not sustain a military cold war with the west .
Too many resources used badly to keep up a façade - Gorbachev knew it was a dead end game .

Russia economy is pitiful for a country with so many resources = 11th in world . Outside of gas, oil, neon etc - and the rape that is caviar - name one product the west needs - you buy Finnish or British Vodka - not Russian - Smirnoff is British - you would think Russia could capitalise on it's heritage( was started by Russia immigrants - same as Russian businesses in USA ).
Lots of Russia companies depend on western companies . I flew Aeroflot London to Moscow in the 1990s - it was actually a Lufthansa flight - the next one to Ethiopia was definitely Russian :) .

All Northern Europeans love to travel - why not seeing more young Russians travelling - they are afraid to lose any gains they made. A German does not care - you can come back at 28 from 5 years of travelling , with no money - hey presto 3 months - all is fine.
Now if you were a Russian would you invest in a business - all your money - that was secondary or tertiary type - knowing it could all be gone - Yeah primary - simple growers , food makers - maybe not such an issue .

Maybe you haven't studied economics - but there are things called "feel good factors", Confidence etc . Russians won't have that - the older know how to hanker down- black market trading , barter .

I'm tired of posters throwing out silly sound bites - that seem vaguely plausible .
Lots of people have great products , ideas etc - does not mean they are remotely going to be successful
Capital , people, ability to get professional expertise , marketing, lawyers, access to markets, set up and planning - and confidence - plus luck, timing and other things ( whoops Hard work )
Yeah everyone wanted a Russia car - they will be taking the windscreen wipers off soon - to keep safe in their homes - eating cabbage , potatoes, bread , and beetroot
Now if Russia continues to invade Europe, all these speculations will go down the drain. All this can be valid if Russia stops in Ukraine.
 

Geralt

Posts: 1,128   +1,750
I'm not being rude specifically to Russia here but, Russia isn't worth a lot. Russia's GDP in 2020 was 1.4 trillion dollars. Lower than Italy (1.8 trillion) much lower than Germany's (3.8 trillion) and that's just two of the country's in Europe.

China's economy isn't strong at the moment, it's on the decline, it would be strange to specifically help Russia out from China's perspective considering they need the money and, well, Russia doesn't have a lot.

They have what is it, just over 100 billionaires? That control roughly 35% of the country's wealth? Yeah, that sure sounds stable for China...

This move to Chinese payment processors is out of necessity (gotta ask yourself why weren't they already Chinese in the first place if they're "great pals") And I think a little bit of history needs to be reminded.

China and Russia didn't get along until recently, in-fact, they've only gotten on since the USSR collapsed. The moves Putin is making and the threats he makes sound like he wants to go back in time, are you sure China really wants that?
The problem is that half of the global atomic power is in the hands of Russia. If Russia continues to invade Europe, say goodbye to this world.
 

Geralt

Posts: 1,128   +1,750
So many well made arguments but are we going to not state the obvious, Who in their right mind will give all their financial data directly to China? We all know how that will end....
As a matter of fact, nobody knows what will happen. We are sitting on a big bomb.
 

Burty117

Posts: 4,488   +2,694
The problem is that half of the global atomic power is in the hands of Russia. If Russia continues to invade Europe, say goodbye to this world.
And you reckon the rest of the world will just let Russia blow them all up? With absolutely no defences or retaliation?

What world do you live in? I get it, you live in Moscow and I assume you watch and read the local news, is that what's being fed to citizens right now? Putin is going to blow up the whole world if the west doesn't back down? Or is this just you making a guess without really thinking it through? You didn't respond to any of points so I assume this is just your opinion with absolutely nothing to back it up.

Putin might be mad but I doubt he'd use Nukes as it would essentially end Russia, you can't rule a country when theirs no country left.
 

Geralt

Posts: 1,128   +1,750
And you reckon the rest of the world will just let Russia blow them all up? With absolutely no defences or retaliation?

What world do you live in? I get it, you live in Moscow and I assume you watch and read the local news, is that what's being fed to citizens right now? Putin is going to blow up the whole world if the west doesn't back down? Or is this just you making a guess without really thinking it through? You didn't respond to any of points so I assume this is just your opinion with absolutely nothing to back it up.

Putin might be mad but I doubt he'd use Nukes as it would essentially end Russia, you can't rule a country when theirs no country left.
That's why I said "goodbye to this world". Do you know English? Added to Ignore for being aggressive.
 

scavengerspc

Posts: 2,590   +2,808
TechSpot Elite
Absolutely hilarious! The "biggest and baddest" tier 2 military in the world is recruiting from Syria to help with Ukraine. If those broken down 90s tanks in the convoy or driving off those railroad cars didn't come across as laughable to some folks, this should help view them for what they are. Absolutely pitiful. Like Putin (GFY).

 

Geralt

Posts: 1,128   +1,750
Absolutely hilarious! The "biggest and baddest" tier 2 military in the world is recruiting from Syria to help with Ukraine. If those broken down 90s tanks in the convoy or driving off those railroad cars didn't come across as laughable to some folks, this should help view them for what they are. Absolutely pitiful. Like Putin (GFY).

Simple cannon fodder.
 

meric

Posts: 364   +359
Sirians have ten-year experience in urban war.
That and it wouldn't be smart to give too many casualties from Russian soldiers which would cause more domestic anti-war protests. Syrians as cannon fodders make sense.
And Russia is clearing the warehouse by using their older vehicles, it's just that.
 

scavengerspc

Posts: 2,590   +2,808
TechSpot Elite
Simple cannon fodder.
If they are being deployed for urban combat, that is quite a leap from cannon fodder.

And Russia is clearing the warehouse by using their older vehicles, it's just that.
And that would depend on what you mean by clearing the warehouse. The best tank I have seen smoldering is the Vladimir, which I always loved, but is not a top tier heavy tank. Most tanks I have seen are the T-72s, which are something like 40 years old and unlike the US they give different names to their new tanks. The US just does huge overhauls through the decades, but keep the name Abrams for its heavies.
Russia does have the T-14s which many equate to the Chevy Vega but I think they are quite impressive, but they can't\don't build too many, so those are probably for defense.
 
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meric

Posts: 364   +359
If they are being deployed for urban combat, that is quite a leap from cannon fodder.


And that would depend on what you mean by clearing the warehouse. The best tank I have seen smoldering is the Vladimir, which I always loved, but is not a top tier heavy tank. Most tanks I have seen are the T-72s, which are something like 40 years old and unlike the US they give many names to their new tanks. The US just does huge overhauls through the decades, but keep the name Abrams for its heavies.
Russia does have the T-14s which are quite impressive, but they can't\don't build too many, so those will probably be for defense.
I think they behave cautiously, deploying their inferior vehicles head on to see the enemy's hand. Most people think that Russians are having difficulty capturing Kiev but I don't think so. They could capture days ago if they wanted. They move slowly and cautiously to keep civilian and soldier casualties to minimum. But I doubt they anticipated such a strong reaction from the world in terms of embargos, restrictions etc.
 

scavengerspc

Posts: 2,590   +2,808
TechSpot Elite
I think they behave cautiously, deploying their inferior vehicles head on to see the enemy's hand. Most people think that Russians are having difficulty capturing Kiev but I don't think so. They could capture days ago if they wanted. They move slowly and cautiously to keep civilian and soldier casualties to minimum. But I doubt they anticipated such a strong reaction from the world in terms of embargos, restrictions etc.
I don't know brother. While I agree with most of what you said, I don't see that they are doing much to limit civilian casualties, and that has never been a concern of theirs in the past. I do hope you are right, though.
 

meric

Posts: 364   +359
I don't know brother. While I agree with most of what you said, I don't see that they are doing much to limit civilian casualties, and that has never been a concern of theirs in the past. I do hope you are right, though.
If they didn't care for civillians, they would beat the city by air bombardment for a couple of weeks, before deploying ground forces, just like USA did in Iraq. Russian forces arrived at the vicinity of Kiev in like 3 or 4 days. But yeah there are a lot of foreigners living in Ukraine for various reasons, too.

They want Zelenskiy to step down. As I read somewhere, like 40% of Ukrainians are pro Russia, even their parliament math is like this. Even then this war is still stupid like any. Russians and Ukrainians are kin, too.
 

Burty117

Posts: 4,488   +2,694
They want Zelenskiy to step down. As I read somewhere, like 40% of Ukrainians are pro Russia, even their parliament math is like this. Even then this war is still stupid like any. Russians and Ukrainians are kin, too.
As someone who watched brexit happen with a 51% to 49% vote. Putin going to war for 40% makes him look even more stupid.
 

kiwigraeme

Posts: 1,047   +775
Sirians have ten-year experience in urban war.
What about a different climate - freezing cold - spring mud coming to bog down Russia even more . Road Mines , hit and run will increase - as still tactical weapons pile in - many can be trained in a short time . Russia has a logistics nightmare . If Russia goes house to house then it's full on war and destruction . Russia will be isolated until Putin goes and democracy is real
 

kiwigraeme

Posts: 1,047   +775
"There is no need to be afraid. The Russian army is not strong, it is just long. We will eat them slowly, like a salami."
Ukrainian Proverb
 

Puiu

Posts: 5,550   +4,518
TechSpot Elite
I think they behave cautiously, deploying their inferior vehicles head on to see the enemy's hand. Most people think that Russians are having difficulty capturing Kiev but I don't think so. They could capture days ago if they wanted. They move slowly and cautiously to keep civilian and soldier casualties to minimum. But I doubt they anticipated such a strong reaction from the world in terms of embargos, restrictions etc.
That is wrong. The reason they are moving slowly is to give time for the bombing of the cities to take its toll on the defenders. They are also trying to demoralise them by surrounding them and cutting off support/supplies.

Putin has done absolutely nothing to prevent civilian casualties so far.
 

kiwigraeme

Posts: 1,047   +775
That is wrong. The reason they are moving slowly is to give time for the bombing of the cities to take its toll on the defenders. They are also trying to demoralise them by surrounding them and cutting off support/supplies.

Putin has done absolutely nothing to prevent civilian casualties so far.
Russia is now building depots , landing areas for air support , field hospitals as well . Like you said the days for going in gung-ho are over - they will start a concerted bombing, rocket, artillery in the future . they still need secured logistic lines . They are aware time is pressing as Ukraine will be getting more and more tactical weapons . The problem I think is how will the Russian Infantry stand up - as ultimately they need feet on the ground .
Without air protection - they may suffer . Plus just how many 500Km Rockets does Russia actually have .
No matter Russia is becoming bankrupt . They will lose at least 25% of war machine . The best and brightest will leave . They will owe China big time .
So those raving against NATO - NATO has already won assuming no Nukes - a weak Russia - broken military . Huge NATO funding boost , more countries joining, plus an active war exercise in Intel- sure as little green apples - NATO is feeding Russian movements , probably even attack points and strategies - NATO computers will be working hard .
Russia has lost doubly - Ukraine stood up + the most of the people in the world uniting against Russia - those sanctions will not be dropped until major concessions . The world will learn to live without Russia for some time more . Putin won't be able to do a Hitler and whip the Russian people up to blitzkrieg the West .
Russia is probably burning through foreign dollars stopping Rouble crashing . Won't matter as the print machine will start up soon
 

Puiu

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TechSpot Elite
Russia is now building depots , landing areas for air support , field hospitals as well . Like you said the days for going in gung-ho are over - they will start a concerted bombing, rocket, artillery in the future . they still need secured logistic lines . They are aware time is pressing as Ukraine will be getting more and more tactical weapons . The problem I think is how will the Russian Infantry stand up - as ultimately they need feet on the ground .
Without air protection - they may suffer . Plus just how many 500Km Rockets does Russia actually have .
No matter Russia is becoming bankrupt . They will lose at least 25% of war machine . The best and brightest will leave . They will owe China big time .
So those raving against NATO - NATO has already won assuming no Nukes - a weak Russia - broken military . Huge NATO funding boost , more countries joining, plus an active war exercise in Intel- sure as little green apples - NATO is feeding Russian movements , probably even attack points and strategies - NATO computers will be working hard .
Russia has lost doubly - Ukraine stood up + the most of the people in the world uniting against Russia - those sanctions will not be dropped until major concessions . The world will learn to live without Russia for some time more . Putin won't be able to do a Hitler and whip the Russian people up to blitzkrieg the West .
Russia is probably burning through foreign dollars stopping Rouble crashing . Won't matter as the print machine will start up soon
Putin's era is over. I don't see him in power for very long. He's lost control.
 

bluetooth fairy

Posts: 175   +110

Russia's largest state-owned lender, Sberbank Rossil PAO, informed users that they would still be able to withdraw and transfer cash and pay as normal in Russia's online and storefront businesses. According to the bank, Russian transactions do not utilize foreign payment systems but instead pass through the country's National Payment Card System.


Jim, you have made a typo and technical error here. RossiL - typo. And "Sberbank Rossii" doesn't exist anymore. It is simply called "Sberbank". It is written in the wiki article you cite.
 

kiwigraeme

Posts: 1,047   +775
Putin's era is over. I don't see him in power for very long. He's lost control.
I see Ukraine claims to have shot down all the cruise missiles aim at Kyiv . Admittedly they don't travel fast - But Putin is chewing through what must be a limited supply . The worry is the rockets that can be fired 500km away and have some very nasty warheads .
I think he will go for huge civilian deaths to get Ukraine to sue for peace. But no guaranty it will work - I think not - This is why Putin is trying to stop women and children fleeing to Poland etc .
If will backfire - more sanctions , war crimes , more military aid " unusual freedom fighters joining " - Russia , USA, France had done ops like this before - normally just uniforms san insignia - sometimes not even that ( just secret war ) .
Anyway even if he holds on - his days are over - paranoia , a sad Russia, more Totalitarian , greater divide between those who support him , and those Russians who want him gone.- one think to arrest protesters , another factory workers striking
Think about how Trump changed USA GOP VS Dems - Putins legacy will be worse . Will new leaders socialise the Oligarchs businesses - I mean France has done it and survived ok .
Was thinking about Nukes - don't think army would follow through or Putin would give order - however living in NZ has some perks
 

meric

Posts: 364   +359
Russia is now building depots , landing areas for air support , field hospitals as well . Like you said the days for going in gung-ho are over - they will start a concerted bombing, rocket, artillery in the future . they still need secured logistic lines . They are aware time is pressing as Ukraine will be getting more and more tactical weapons . The problem I think is how will the Russian Infantry stand up - as ultimately they need feet on the ground .
Without air protection - they may suffer . Plus just how many 500Km Rockets does Russia actually have .
No matter Russia is becoming bankrupt . They will lose at least 25% of war machine . The best and brightest will leave . They will owe China big time .
So those raving against NATO - NATO has already won assuming no Nukes - a weak Russia - broken military . Huge NATO funding boost , more countries joining, plus an active war exercise in Intel- sure as little green apples - NATO is feeding Russian movements , probably even attack points and strategies - NATO computers will be working hard .
Russia has lost doubly - Ukraine stood up + the most of the people in the world uniting against Russia - those sanctions will not be dropped until major concessions . The world will learn to live without Russia for some time more . Putin won't be able to do a Hitler and whip the Russian people up to blitzkrieg the West .
Russia is probably burning through foreign dollars stopping Rouble crashing . Won't matter as the print machine will start up soon
I agree most of what you said here but I disagree at one point. I doubt it will take too long for Russians to capture Kiev. But the real issue is what will happen afterwards. Kiev will fall unless NATO intervenes directly which doesn't seem probable right now. Defense systems require time to install and staff education, time that Ukrainians don't have. But in the end, not only the Russian economy will have difficult times ahead, also it's not clear what will happen in Ukraine in terms of social, political stability. And this situation will have global effects making many matters worse that it was already due to pandemics.