Volvo will only sell all-electric vehicles by 2030, is moving all EV sales to online-only...

toooooot

Posts: 1,469   +736
As a hellcat and jeep SRT owner I think I speak for the majority of people who have a V-8 engine when I say that it will be a very long time before the electric vehicle market is able to convince us to upgrade our personal vehicles to a silent, response less, non-enthusiastic vehicle.

But as a car reviewer, Tesla owner, and EV stock investor who has tested all of the Tesla vehicles, Volvo Polestar 2 and any other electric vehicle that comes to market (waiting for the Cadillac Lyriq) I must say that electric vehicles are definitely a better fit for most people who have a four-cylinder or a V6 car - even outperforming V8s.

The only real problem with electric vehicles at this point is the price. The R&D is expensive and those costs are being passed directly to the consumer. Only the largest of the Automakers have the ability and the experience to build high-quality EV without huge costs, but on average, an EV still costs "more" than an equivalently sized and equipped ICE vehicle. That will change, however, as the market retools towards EV.

Range anxiety is slowly becoming a non-issue. Building all new homes with built in EV chargers should be a standard to allow as many people as possible to charge at home- overnight.

The vast majority of us are not driving more than 200 miles a day and even on most long range road trips most of us are not driving more than 300 miles without taking a break.

Newer electric vehicles are offering between 300 miles and 500 miles of range. As long as we have a place to charge them which is easily identifiable autumn map and next to a rest stop, stopping for an hour and a half to charge the vehicle isn’t so bad. It gives the person time to nap, defecate or eat.

The other issue is that there needs to be more ubiquitous charging stations. It’s one thing to have them spaced every few miles but it would be a totally revolutionary thing for charging stations to be “everywhere“. They need to be behind movie theaters, behind grocery stores, behind malls and “everywhere“.

The only way that will happen is if individual stores and businesses get a tax break for setting up a high voltage charger at their place of business. Once charges are everywhere no one will have ranch anxiety because every single time they stop their vehicle they will be able to charge if necessary.

Tesla has done a great job setting up software that allows people to recognize the distance between chargers and remind them to recharge the vehicle when possible.
Electric cars still have one major disadvantage. Buying them used means that not long ahead you might need to change the battery? a very expensive part of the car you simply dont have options to save on.
I personally would not wnat a used electric car when I would gladly choose from a variety of 2-6 year old cars I like.
Both sellers of used cars and buyers will share the decrease in value of such cars.
That's money lost.
Not long ago I convinced my father not to buy a hybrid, speciifcally for this reason. Apperently he did not think that in 6-7 years he will be up for one expensive mandatory repair.
That got me thinking, how many people are not aware of this fact? Specifically how many people who buy renewed and used electric cars?
I feel like there will be more dissapointed people who lost money on thesse cars simply because they dotn realize all the aspect of owning an electric car.
 

QuantumPhysics

Posts: 4,866   +5,390
Electric cars still have one major disadvantage. Buying them used means that not long ahead you might need to change the battery? a very expensive part of the car you simply dont have options to save on.
I personally would not wnat a



The real hidden cost of an EV is that because they tend to be more expensive (up front cost) than an ICE vehicle, the "break even" point takes longer.

Tesla's for example have terrible leases. An EV is designed to be driven longer ranges than an ICE vehicle and doesn't wear the same way as an ICE vehicle as their are fewer parts that require repair and maintenance. Therefore, it would be logical for EV to have higher mileage allowances. But right now it doesn't work that way and Tesla leases tend to have low mileage allowances in order to make the vehicles cost attractive.

Teslas are better to finance because once the car is "owned" the savings regarding fuel costs become evident.

It makes no sense paying $1000 on a car each month just to "save money on gas". It is more efficient to buy a car that costs $300 -$500 a month that's the same size and gets decent mileage.

Compare a Buick Lacrosse or Cadillac CT6 to a Tesla Model S.
Compare a Cadillac XT6 to a Tesla Model X.

In both cases the ICE wins if you're talking "lease".

But if the cars are owned, the Tesla wins because of the energy savings and maintenance savings.


As for the battery: Most manufacturers work the cost of battery repair and replacement into the warranty. Leasees needn't worry. It's the long-term financers who worry.

Once again: I've owned the Tesla Model X and Model S.
 

Puiu

Posts: 4,567   +3,385
TechSpot Elite
Under ideal conditions. This may be different when it‘s very hot (batteries may need to be cooled, AC is on) or very cold.


The power requirements are higher than you might think. Even first gen fast chargers require inputs of 480+ volts and 100+ amps (50-60 kW), new gen a multiple of that. Per charger. This requires pretty good power lines, the higher the ev density, the better the power grid needs to be.


This is particularly a problem for used car buyers. You can probably forget about getting a cheap older used car with ev that you can keep running yourself.
Neah, you don't need ideal conditions. As long as you remain in the 400 miles range you are fine.

The power requirements you mentioned are only for the fast charging stations (the 30 minute - 480V stations). You can use a regular 240V charging station at home or in parking lots of various places that do 10 to 20 miles per hour (depending on the battery and car type). Or even a cheap and easy to install 120V station for your home, but this is mostly for those that just use the car for shorter distances.

As for used cars, you can check the state of the batteries. Some might require a replacement of just one or two things, others full battery replacements. Either way, you negotiate the price.

Regular cars aren't going to suddenly disappear in 10-20 years, they'll just slowly be fazed out as EV technology improves and it becomes cheaper and easier to use. You can 100% expect cars with 1000 to 2000 miles range in the next decade. Once this threshold gets passed you can truly say that EVs have become mainstream.
 
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VEGGIM

Posts: 35   +7
If were talking about electric, we have to talk about sports cars. For some it might be easy to do but others might be harder. Why? Becuase its not that they can't build it. Its more like the legacy of some cars. Going to use Japanese cars as those has a huge following for its sports cars.

GT86- lightweight drivers car
Miata -lightweight sports/ gran touring car.
Z- nissan's budget lightweight 300-400hp sports car
GTR- High end legendary sports cars that is from a legacy of engineering and racing(engine is handbuilt)
Supra- Legendary car known around the car community for it's durable engine and vast records that it held at the time.
Nsx- lightweight supercar.

There's one small problem. Most of these legacies were also due to their engines.
Specifically for the 370z, supra,gtr, and nsx.

If the drivetrain were to change enthusiasts would not like it at all.
Examples: Look at the reactions of the release of the 2020 supra, 2017 nsx, eclipse cross.
 
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Ultraman1966

Posts: 158   +61
That's not true at all.

CO2 is a major necessity of plants which create oxygen - ala Photosynthesis.

It's the Methane, Sulfur Dioxides and heavy metals that we have a problem with.

I have no problem giving up the V8. But there are applications of V8 engines that EV have yet to match.
You're right about CO2, people making fake claims about that really does not help the environmental cause
Not sure how popular diesel is in US but UK and a lot of Europe had a huge uptake until the VW scandal popped that bubble. Diesel car exhaust fumes also include fine dust particles which is particularly bad for lungs. I look forward to the day when I don't have to choke when a bus, Heavy or Light Goods vehicle go roaring past...
 

VEGGIM

Posts: 35   +7
You're right about CO2, people making fake claims about that really does not help the environmental cause
Not sure how popular diesel is in US but UK and a lot of Europe had a huge uptake until the VW scandal popped that bubble. Diesel car exhaust fumes also include fine dust particles which is particularly bad for lungs. I look forward to the day when I don't have to choke when a bus, Heavy or Light Goods vehicle go roaring past...
Correct, the vw scandal kinda left a bad image for vw and diesel. In the US there's also taxes on diesel vehicles. It's also because of engine technologies like Skyactiv for example that is starting to make diesel look kinda useless.
 

Irata

Posts: 1,430   +2,311
Would the synthetic fuel not still exhaust CO2 or other toxic waste? I think going the electric route (maybe Hydrogen) might have benefits in far future, who knows what other innovation will come from focusing on EVs. But that's a what if and we can all make guesses.
The beauty of synthetic fuels is that they exhaust the same amount of CO2 into the air that was extracted from it (or from industrial exhaust) to produce it. This is of course assuming that the electricity needed for its production is from renewables - same as for EV.


It should also generally be cleaner than oil based fuels. A big advantage are easier distribution and storage plus no need for dirty battery production.
 

VEGGIM

Posts: 35   +7
The beauty of synthetic fuels is that they exhaust the same amount of CO2 into the air that was extracted from it (or from industrial exhaust) to produce it. This is of course assuming that the electricity needed for its production is from renewables - same as for EV.


It should also generally be cleaner than oil based fuels. A big advantage are easier distribution and storage plus no need for dirty battery production.
Well there's one problem. Not a lot of the engines can handle synthetic fuel. Porsche is doing it first, with a synthetic fuel of c02 and hyrdogen. Thing is the engine have to be tuned. I don't know how much compression it can handle. It's why you don't see 100% ethanol in engines it's bad for cold starts.
 

Markoni35

Posts: 1,073   +437
Nope. Despite these pushes, electric sales are still a tiny blip on the radar of overall car sales. Even in eco hippy loving Europe, electric car sales fell off a cliff once rebates from the government went away.

You said a lot, and all that you said is true. And despite that, you still forget to mention a few equally bad things. For example: Where will all the energy come from? It's not like you can dig out barrels of electricity. It's not like solar panels can satisfy the needs, even the basic needs.

Just look at those poor Texans a week ago, freezing to death because they replaced coal-based power plants with solar panels.

Which means..... a large number of nuclear power plants will have to be built. Which is a totally bad idea, from many standpoints. Not only you become dependent on a small number of companies selling enriched nuclear fuel, but disasters like Chernobyl, or even worse Fukushima, will be happening more often. And smaller incidents, which nowadays happen every week, will start happening daily.

And what about people living in projects? They don't have garages to charge their vehicles overnight. Will each parking spot have its charger? How much will that cost? What about wild parking, because you park wherever you can find a spot. It may happen you can't recharge you car for many nights, because all the chargers are taken. People will be killing each other over a parking spot with a charger.

I like electric cars (though I hate their lack of proper sound) but switching everyone to pure-electric probably won't work. There will be hybrids for many more decades, until we finally harness the power of nuclear fusion on a commercial scale (maybe in 50 years) which will finally bring cheap and clean energy to everyone.

Well, utopistically speaking. Because in reality, the bastards ruling the world will invent an excuse to make the electricity expensive so they can suck our souls through a thin straw, like today.
 

sac39507

Posts: 385   +204
So no one's taking long distance family trips on a Volvo after 2030.

Volvo will also be the first to start destroying earth due to the high production and wastes of batteries.
 

Ultraman1966

Posts: 158   +61
Correct, the vw scandal kinda left a bad image for vw and diesel. In the US there's also taxes on diesel vehicles. It's also because of engine technologies like Skyactiv for example that is starting to make diesel look kinda useless.
Isn't Skyactiv proprietary to Mazda though? Haven't heard of any other major manufacturer that is implementing it?
 

Ultraman1966

Posts: 158   +61
You said a lot, and all that you said is true. And despite that, you still forget to mention a few equally bad things. For example: Where will all the energy come from? It's not like you can dig out barrels of electricity. It's not like solar panels can satisfy the needs, even the basic needs.

Just look at those poor Texans a week ago, freezing to death because they replaced coal-based power plants with solar panels.
Can we just take a second to address this false bit of information. The Texas grid didn't fail because of renewable energies. https://apnews.com/article/false-cl...ind-turbine-f9e24976e9723021bec21f9a68afe927?
" In reality, failures in natural gas, coal and nuclear energy systems were responsible for nearly twice as many outages as frozen wind turbines and solar panels, the Electric Reliability Council of Texas, which operates the state’s power grid, said in a press conference Tuesday. "

If you're going to set out an debate point, please do not repeat false claims which have been rebutted.

I think there's anything wrong with your posts but you can't open with a lie.