What Happened Last Time AMD Beat Intel?

[Bullwinkle M]

Using same logic, on every game where AMD's RT performance is comical, reason is makers of that game, not AMD

YES, that is correct!

Makers of games that cannot optimize for AMD should stop failing and start optimizing for NVidia

I'm so glad you finally got it!

Saying you are optimized for NVidia is not enough, as Dirt5 has learned....
You MUST ACTUALLY DO IT!

 

[Avro Arrow]

I disagree. You might have something of a point if they weren't selling all they could make.

They were also selling all they could make of the Athlon 64 FX as well. The problem was that they only made as many as they could sell. If they had made as many Athlon 64 FX's as Pentium-4's, they would have been stuck with boatloads of them.

As for right now, this is a temporary situation. If they don't raise the price again for the next gen, they could be ok. If they do, they won't be.

 

[Endymio]

They were also selling all they could make of the Athlon 64 FX as well. The problem was that they only made as many as they could sell.

Despite that statement's having a Zen Koan ring, it's not correct. The Athlon 64 was in extremely high demand at launch and in the months following: AMD simply couldn't anywhere near enough to meet demand. They had major difficulties integrating SOI at their fabs, and had to ask IBM for help ... it was, in fact, one of the factors that ultimately led to their going fabless a few years later.

Interestingly enough, Lisa Su's doctorate involved SOI, and, though I can't find confirmation of this now, I believe she was on the IBM team that helped AMD roll out their first SOI chips.

 

[HardReset]

Despite that statement's having a Zen Koan ring, it's not correct. The Athlon 64 was in extremely high demand at launch and in the months following: AMD simply couldn't anywhere near enough to meet demand. They had major difficulties integrating SOI at their fabs, and had to ask IBM for help ... it was, in fact, one of the factors that ultimately led to their going fabless a few years later.

AMD asked IBM's help before Athlon64 launch. Those problems were one reason why Athlon64 was around two years late. After launch it was just huge demand vs capacity.

 

[Nestea]

Blunder @Bullwinkle M
14 nm global = tsmc 7 nm . physically it's the same size.
you cannot compare production across fab facilities.
nanometer designation is meaningless. has been for a while.
@DZillaXx

 

[neeyik]

14 nm global = tsmc 7 nm . physically it's the same size.

Wikichip say otherwise:

'14nm' process nodes vs '7nm' process nodes

TSMC's N7 has 25% smaller fin widths and pitches; contacted gate pitch is up to 18% smaller; 38% smaller minimum metal pitches than GloFlo/Samsung's 14LP node. Even if one doubts the validity of such figures, the high density SRAM figures tell everything you need to know: N7 is 0.027 square microns, 14LP is 0.064 square microns.

While the whole 14nm, 7nm, 5nm, 3nm, etc nomenclature is indeed no longer valid, as a measure of component size, and process nodes from different manufacturers also aren't directly comparable, it's definitely not the case that N7 is generating components of the same physical size as 14LP.

 

[Xausejo]

AMD cannot beat Intel OR NVidia at the same process node

check out the horrible performance of their top graphics card compared to an 8nm NVidia

It's crap

They only have an advantage over Intel on core count and process

Try comparing the same core count at the same manufacturing process

Intel still kicks AMD to the curb

Do a fair comparison and see what happens

5nm EUV is even making Apple's M1 look good, but like Apple, AMD's advantage is temporary

Credit should go to the process

AMD cannot beat Intel OR NVidia at the same process node

check out the horrible performance of their top graphics card compared to an 8nm NVidia

It's crap

They only have an advantage over Intel on core count and process

Try comparing the same core count at the same manufacturing process

Intel still kicks AMD to the curb

Do a fair comparison and see what happens

5nm EUV is even making Apple's M1 look good, but like Apple, AMD's advantage is temporary

Credit should go to the process

Yeah you're right bout that, compare it with same core count, Intel will kick their butt. That's why I still go with Intel..

 

[Avro Arrow]

The sad reality is, these days, the young ones that have more money than brain and moral backbone only have personal and immediate satisfaction as their priority and forget the greater good.

Eh, our generation was no better. How do you think that Intel and nVidia got where they are? It's just the fact that people don't know all this stuff. It's like holding a grudge against Ford for their explosive Ford Pinto and Mercury Bobcat models. People born after the fact won't even consider it relevant. Look at how many people are still buying American cars when Toyota and Honda have been constantly showing GM and Ford to be inferior. Chrysler's just a lost cause but people still buy them.

Spock was right in his observation that logic has little to do with the choices made by humans.

 

[Tantor]

They're playing a very dangerous game though because a lot of their success is also attached to the fact that many people (like me) absolutely despise Intel and nVidia as companies because of their past misdeeds based on corporate greed and an arrogant mindset. Compared to Intel and nVidia, AMD's practices seem almost "saintly" when one considers Intel's criminal activities and nVidia's numerous anti-consumer "D1ck Moves".

I've been accused of being an DAAMiT (AMD/ATi) fanboy in the past but that has actually never been true. I'm not really someone who buys AMD products as much as I'm someone who refuses to buy Intel or nVidia products because I don't want to support them. AMD is no charitable foundation but at least they don't break the law or screw over their customers. If AMD changes either of those, then there will be no reason for me to care about the crap that Intel and nVidia pull and AMD will lose a lot of business because of it.

Gamer Meld was apparently told by AMD directly that in 4-8 weeks, there will be a significant number of RX 6000-series cards available AT MSRP. While that is better than nVidia's situation, the RX-6000-series is badly overpriced. This may be the first time that I can remember saying that about an ATi product in 25 years. You know, it's really stupid too because nVidia screwed up and instead of capitalising on it and grabbing market and mindshare which is what AMD REALLY needs, they went the greedy route for short-term profits.

This is why no American corporation will ever be as long-lived as Lloyd's of London or the Hudson's Bay Company. They're so focused on short-term profits and stock value that they're completely oblivious to the bigger picture.

Lloyds is not a corporation. It's a more like a marketplace. That may be the secret of its longevity, but it may not be feasible to organize most corporations is the same manner as Lloyds.

 

[Tantor]

There's a big difference this time around. AMD planned their assault very well.

- AMD has superior fab technology through TSMC.
- AMD has superior GPU technology through their acquisition of ATI.
- AMD Zen 3 is superior to Intel's present offerings.
- AMD has Zen 4 and Zen 5 waiting in the wings.

This means that AMD is finally off of life support and on the road to recovery. I'm sure that Intel will pull off an Empire Strikes Back maneuver shortly when they debut their fully operational Death Star. But that death star may be less effective than they hoped.

 

[DonquixoteIII]

A few mentions... Pat Gelsinger has returned to head Intel's engineering teams, as a VP this time. It was under Mr. Gelsinger's lead that Intel's engineers come up with the Core design.

AMD is not executing well at 7nm, and their roadmap shows them launching 5nm late 2021. Doh... Having no foundry means being out of touch with designing for new node processes. It is now showing just how out of touch with with manufacturing at the node level they are.

Lastly, China has its eyes firmly on the prize... Taiwan. And I doubt that the USA has the balls to stop them. If TSMC doesn't re-locate soon, well... China is already poaching as much of its staff as they can, but having the whole foundry as a working unit....? Still, where to re-locate? They need cheap, well educated labor, in a defensible location. Leaves out SE Asia. Korea? Doubt that Sammy's chabal would allow that. India? Maybe...

 

[kmo911]

Still waiting for 11 and 12 th gen amd x570 with that 4 pin connector crashes bsod gsod every 10 th minits. so no im on intel. amd x570 prime P version now dont work any more. it has no 4 pin cable. so dangerous unstable amd amxx chipset made me change back to intel and only pcie 3.0 . that unstable pcie 4.0 and m.2 slots on that motharboard was like it was dead on sale. every time it does that I must run BIOS recovery. of corse amd are faster but unstable and no support on som ddr4 ram modules. insearting it to wrong lanes and so on. intel are just Right on and install and PLAY.

PRIME X570-P｜Motherboards｜ASUS Global

www.asus.com

 

[Avro Arrow]

Lloyds is not a corporation. It's a more like a marketplace. That may be the secret of its longevity, but it may not be feasible to organize most corporations is the same manner as Lloyds.

Ack, you're right! I meant to say Lloyds Bank which was founded in 1765. Thanks for the correction, I'll fix my original post. I had just assumed that they were the same thing because, well, you know, two massive English corporations named Lloyds and I'm on the west side of the Atlantic. I learned something today and that's always a good thing!