treetops
Posts: 3,064 +784
I'd trade my 5700($330) non xt for a used 1080 ti in a heart beat. I see em at $440 on USA Ebay atm. (with rusted screws lol)
$400 GPU King: Radeon RX 5700 XT vs. GeForce RTX 2060 Super
- Thread starter Steve
- Start date
There isn't much difference in performance from those OC models. Navi AIB cards mostly benefit from cooling and noise.
krizby
Posts: 429 +286
Lol the Palit 2060S Jetstream beats the reference 5700XT and has 6% overclocking headroom to boot.
Soft Power Play + watercooling on 5700XT is equivalent to shunt modding + watercooling on 2060/2070 Super, it boost the performance a few more % at the cost of way higher power consumption
You were asking for vid of how my rig play Control so here it is, please noted that my 2080Ti is undervolted to 1905mhz/ 0.925V compare to 1.05V stock (for best efficiency).
Is 60fps playable in Control ? Yes I have spent like 30-40hour in this game already, using the exact settings. It is a very resource intensive game that 5700XT/2060 Super can't get 60fps at 1440p without RTX anyways (consoles get like 15fps lol), basically any performance degradation with RTX High (RTX Medium is all you need actually) can be recovered with DLSS.
On the other hand DLSS is evolving, simply using High Settings + DLSS get you better Visuals and FPS than Low settings without DLSS, although we need Tim to do a more throughout investigation in this.
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treetops
Posts: 3,064 +784
In the vid he is playing downscaled to slightly below 1080p. getting 60-70 fps on a watercooled 2080 ti. He has MSAA off, the chart you have of the 2060 5700 and 5700 xt are using MSAAx4.Lol the Palit 2060S Jetstream beats the reference 5700XT and has 6% overclocking headroom to boot.
Soft Power Play + watercooling on 5700XT is equivalent to shunt modding + watercooling on 2060/2070 Super, it boost the performance a few more % at the cost of way higher power consumption
You were asking for vid of how my rig play Control so here it is, please noted that my 2080Ti is undervolted to 1905mhz/ 0.925V compare to 1.05V stock (for best efficiency).
Is 60fps playable in Control ? Yes I have spent like 30-40hour in this game already, using the exact settings. It is a very resource intensive game that 5700XT/2060 Super can't get 60fps at 1440p without RTX anyways, basically any performance degradation with RTX High (RTX Medium is all you need actually) can be recovered with DLSS.
I prefer the graphics of a 2060 on a well optimized game. Over Control with a wc 2080 ti. Looking at all your YT vids it looks like rt on anything below a 2080 ti on Control would be unplayable.
By simply sliding up the regular OCing stuff on the $400 ref 5700 xt you get a 10% boost. idk how much that card costs your talking about 476.95 USD?
That wc 2080 ti probably looks way better at 4k no rt
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Irata
Posts: 2,288 +4,002
You know, this isn't about religion or politics. No one is going to drown a bunch of puppies if customers buy the wrong product..
What this review showed is that you are not making a bad purchase going for either GPU. Each has certain small advantages depending on your use case.
Now, it is absolutely OK to say that you prefer company A over B for whatever reason. Maybe you like to side with the underdog or prefer to have the feeling of being part of the winning team...does not matter as there is no cost in chosing either in this case.
You do you, but unless you are being paid imho you are wasting your time clutching at straws to make one product look like the far superior option.
krizby
Posts: 429 +286
Enabling DLSS will disable MSAA since it's not needed anymore. In my 2nd clip I get 45fps with everything Low, MSAA off, RTX High and 65fps with DLSS, everything maxed and RTX High.
Oh well everyone has his own opinion but saying a game is optimized only when it's giving high FPS is kinda short sighted. Were Crysis an un-optimized game when it released in 2007 since it murdered every GPU out there ? I remember getting <30fps with my 8800GT back then.
For more information here is the fps I get at 2560x1440 everything max without RTX nor DLSS (I could be losing some fps due to the recording at 130mbps)
The Palit 2060 Super Jetstream sell for 450usd VAT included in Asia, same price as the cheapest usable 5700XT (Pulse model) and is 10% cheaper than the 5700XT Red Devil model (490usd VAT included). So yeah performance per dollar figure is different in Asia. In Europe it's selling for 10eur more than the 5700XT Red Devil.
hmm...do I hear some animosity for simply pointing out that there are 2060Super model out there that compete neck to neck with 5700XT at stock settings ? HUB test like what ? 10 different 5700XT models and 1 2060 Super model ?
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Nobina
Posts: 4,508 +5,525
Oh, some of the driver issues are there for months if not years.
Evernessince
Posts: 5,469 +6,158
Much like how Nvidia drivers have had DSP issues for years. It seems to apply to all generation of cards. AMD"s 7000 series had screen flickering issues. No idea what Polaris had though. It didn't have the same screen flickering issues. AMD puts a list of known bugs at the bottom of their driver updates but most of them are pretty niche situation.
Nobina
Posts: 4,508 +5,525
I have some screen flickering when watching live streams on RX 570, after some research it turns out it's an old issue that can't seem to get fixed.
Evernessince
Posts: 5,469 +6,158
That's an annoying issue. I had it with my 7970. I still get it with my 1080 Ti but it only happens once every 3 days or so. I was getting it every hour or so on the 7970. Strangely I've had it across two 1080 Tis (same EVGA model). Didn't have it with my 980 Ti.
I believe the issue is caused by switching between 2D and 3D memory clocks. It can be caused by 1. the drivers 2. the hardware 3. GPU bios. Apparently AMD's drivers are not as good at handling the issue as Nvidia's are.
I don't entirely agree. Nvidia drivers have had just as many stupid bugs and glitches as amd's have. Let's not forget about the update that literally blew up certain cards. Are Amds cards generally hotter and louder? Reference, definetely and in the last few generations I'd say the Amd cards have had higher tdp's for sure. This can generally be mitigated with aib's though.
The 7000 series are still supported today and has scaled incredibly well compared to Kepler which requires massive maintenance and optimization to stay competetive. Therefore I wouldn't say that they're supported for less time at all it's quite the opposite. In addition, Radeon has supported adaptive sync without proprietary hardware since it's inception.
And to answer your last question, Radeon does support minecraft Ray tracing. The initial ray tracing shader didn't even run on the rt cores. Rtx is proprietary hardware and will most likely not be well supported outside Nvidia sponsored titles in the future.
The official Ray Traced MC hasn't come out yet, and even if it does it'll be exclusive to the Win 10 version. The one you're using is very likely to just be custom shaders, which doesn't even use any RT Cores and is likely to work on basically any powerful GPU.
Shadowboxer
Posts: 2,074 +1,655
Yes the custom shader pack doesn’t use RT cores but does state you need to be using a GeForce card to play it. I imagine the official version will take advantage of custom hardware, I believe I have seen Nvidia advertising minecraft somewhere so let’s hope that means we can use tensor cores for it.
I also really really hope that the official ray tracing version isn’t the windows 10 version or bedrock as it’s now called. I can’t stand that version, it looks the same as original minecraft but lacks a lot of the bugs that make many of the redstone builds in the Java versions use to work and on top of that it has an uncertainty element when using redstone, you can create a circuit, put an input into it and get a different outcome everytime. It makes loads of builds impossible. Oh and coordinates are gimped and spawning is still broken. Of course I’m not stupid, it looks likely that ray tracing will only go to that version. So far Java version and bedrock are pretty much at parity but if MS only allow ray tracing on bedrock it will be the first time bedrock edition gets something major that Java doesn’t and it will piss off a lot of old school fans.
m3tavision
Posts: 1,443 +1,223
@Shadowboxer ... Well most of what you are saying is simply not true at all ...
1) "Hotter" - the Powercolor Red Devil runs cooler than the 2060 super which consumes 10% less power ... no one wants the reference blower cards anyway (which did have some cooling issues on 5700xt). If you want to look at power consumption between the two the have the exact same efficiency here (5700xt is 10% faster and uses 10% more power as this article states)
2) "Louder" - the Red devil 5700xt is also quieter than the 2060 super
3) "Less driver support (for older cards)" - It's a known fact that AMD drivers and cards get better with age - just look at Rx480 vs GTX1060 - when the 480 came out it was slower, now its quite a bit faster. Look at Radeon 7 vs 2080 -- started off slighty slower, recent reviews put it a fair bit ahead ... How can this be? Because AMD drivers mature, and NVidia stops improving drivers on older cards to force you to buy a new one ... this is well known in enthusiast corners. The exact opposite of what you say here is true.
4) "AMD drivers suck" - was that comment from out of the time machine? I find the AMD drivers / catalyst control superior to NVidia's interface -- I have both.
5) "No RT for Minecraft" - Some modder created a raytracing mod for minecraft that runs very well on a 5700xt, and playable on a lowly RX580 ... google it. It looks amazing ... and no "RTX" card is required.
So there you go. Time to get with the times.
Here's another couple reviews for you to peruse -- the 5700 and 5700XT aren't getting extremely high accolades from all the reviewers just because ...
PowerColor Radeon RX 5700 XT Red Devil Review | bit-tech.net
How will it fare against the Sapphire Nitro+?bit-tech.net
PowerColor RX 5700 XT Red Devil Review - KitGuru
Custom Navi graphics cards are coming thick and fast now. We've already looked at solutions from Sapwww.kitguru.net
ditto^
And if people are being honest with themselves, they will know that AMD has better drivers and better driver support. They have bettered themselves, while Nvidia has rested on Jensen's "it just works"...
m3tavision
Posts: 1,443 +1,223
Nope..!
I run several rigs, and AMD's updates are more often and effortless. Nvidia's is extremely cumbersome because Nvidia purposely stunts their driver software, for no auto notify, etc. So, you are informed the interwebs/sites as to when there is an update. As NOBODY uses the "GeForce Experience" bloatware.. they do manual driver install..
You really do have to call shills out, when they try to assert their "opinion", when they have no clue how AMD's Software Suite & driver works.
m3tavision
Posts: 1,443 +1,223
m3tavision
Posts: 1,443 +1,223
I really think you are loosing the fact, that everyone on my floor is laughing at you.... $1300 GPU.
And you are trying to discuss performance and bend people's arms and tryhard in every post to sell Nvidia. While every logical person who walks into Microcenter walks out with a Navi. While RTX buyers are laughed at...
Nvidia drivers have tuned into a Jensen Experience... and Nvidia has lost favor with gamers. People like You, who keep tryharding and shilling nvidia products is all the proof people need, to buy AMD. You don't have a logical argument, and just tryhard with facts that matter to nobody, but your fake selves.
Can spot an nvidia shill from a mile away bro...
Nobina
Posts: 4,508 +5,525
What do you mean "nope"? From my own experience, AMD drivers have some annoying buys like green or purple screen after driver install, screen flickering while watching live streams, both common issues on multiple cards that exist for quite some time and they are still not fixed. It's not a big deal but I've never had issues with Nvidia drivers and ofcourse I always uncheck GeForce Experience garbage. Overall, AMD leads in price to performance which is the most important thing, drivers could be improved.
krizby
Posts: 429 +286
Lol if price to performance is the most important then explain how the GTX 1060 sold 10x that of RX 580 according to Steam. Seriously the last AMD card that I consider the most competitive was the R9 290 because it was a 400usd card vs 780Ti's 650usd price tag. Right now a mere 8% price to performance advantage is not enough to upset the established brand preferences that people have, not to mention the technology advantage that RTX has.
Well if all you care is price to performance then stick to console is the best option really.
Evernessince
Posts: 5,469 +6,158
Both GamersNexus and Hardware Unboxed have done multiple videos on DLSS like these:
It always comes with a reduction in image quality. It is beaten by a simple sharpening filter. It's not hard to see why either. When you upscale an image from a lower resolution version (which is essentially what DLSS does), you are going to loose detail. What DLSS tries to do is guess what's missing and fill it in. It doesn't matter whether it's AI or Human, if you don't have enough data to make an accurate guess of what was there, your SOL. You may be able to "guess" a fair amount of the pixels that you lost using a lower resolution but in the end it's impossible to completely reconstruct a higher quality image with 100% accuracy. If this were possible YouTube would be using it to save and bandwidth and storage space, the police would be using it, you would be using it to encode videos at a lower resolution and have this impossible algorithm DLSS it in real time.
Quality wise DLSS will NEVER beat a higher resolution source + sharpening filter.
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Nobina
Posts: 4,508 +5,525
Where does Steam tell you how much which GPU has sold? Right now RX 5700 offers similar performance to RTX 2060 Super and it's cheaper (about $50?), so if I was buying a new GPU I would opt for the RX 5700. Drivers and everything else matters little. Now not everyone does this, I was speaking for myself. Most people buy products without informing themselves or they just like the brand.
m3tavision
Posts: 1,443 +1,223
Purple screen..? I install a new AMD drivers at the rate of once a month, while Nvidia drivers about every 3 months... BECAUSE nvidia drivers ALWAYS and every time, mess with my audio card. So I skip drivers, so I don't have to go through the headache.
AMD driver auto notify, and will auto download and install driver's if you want... Nvidia doesn't.
The point is, that Nvidia use to... have better drivers. As of today, they do not. Nvidia has fallen behind AMD in nearly everything.
m3tavision
Posts: 1,443 +1,223
Hey Krizby, are you talking about the past again...?
Most are buying RNDA cards, because AMD has better drivers, better driver support and better gaming architecture.
Shadowboxer
Posts: 2,074 +1,655
I’d pick the Nvidia card everytime over these Navi cards. They seem to have more bugs and glitches than normal for an AMD part. And also they are hot and loud.
If all you care about is performance per dollar then sure buy it. Personally I look at the whole package. Noise levels and heat are hugely important to me to have a trouble free system. These Navi cards give me alarm bells when I see how big the coolers on them are. Not to mention the far inferior driver support Radeon parts have. Hard pass.
Nobina
Posts: 4,508 +5,525
Well, now that you said it Nvidia now officially has worse drivers than AMD as of today. He said it!
