AMD admits it doesn't have an RTX 4090 competitor

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yRaz

Posts: 4,973   +6,430
I don't buy into 8k displays. You'd need a monster screen area to actually see the difference. I game on a 32" display 2k. I can barely see a difference in 4k half meter away. Yes, I checked my eyesight. I understand 4k for 40"+, but 8k? Unless you game from the couch.
I 100% get that, but I have certain use case where having an 8k Display makes a lot of sense. I use 4k 65" TV that I divide into 4, 1080p screens for productivity purposes. I find that having one large screen is better for me than having multiple smaller ones. Now, I am in no way ignorant of the fact that I am fraction of a percentage point of PC users. However, that in no way hurts the creation of a standard for desktop use. I want an 8k120 display. I know I wont be able to game at that resolution, but I have a "buy once, cry once" mentality. I don't have a problem dropping thousands on a display if I'm going to have it for close to a decade. The problem with that is the display I want doesn't exist yet. TV's don't come with display port so I'm forced to use HDMI. I'm hoping that AMD's push with 8k on DisplyPort will lead to an upgrade allowing for 8k120 on HDMI.

Then, once I buy the display, I can "upgrade" into it. When I bought my current 4k Display, 4k gaming wasn't a thing. I'm fully aware that when I buy an 8k Display that it will be YEARS before I can game on it properly.
 

fps4ever

Posts: 1,105   +1,799
The 4090 is a beast of a card but if the AMD 7900 XTX can beat the 3090 Ti by 15%+ that will be perfectly acceptable in my opinion.
 

PEnnn

Posts: 1,010   +1,361
"Why didn't we see Radeon 7000 up against Nvidia, what's up with that?" PCWorld asked. "Are you afraid? What's going on?"

And million dollar answer would have been: "Sorry, but we don't sell obscenely expensive junk that melts!!"
 

Warrior247

Posts: 24   +19
And play games rendered at 720p upscaled at 4k, no thanks.
Your undevolting a mediocre card, losing performance, and not really gaining anything on the backend rendering the whole process moot and a waste of time. There is no 720p here. The Xbox Series X actually beats your card in some games at 4k!

 

takaozo

Posts: 514   +812
For the US residents, just one question, the prices on Microcenter are final price or must add VAT or something?
From what I see there are the same shlt prices as here. Ex. a 3060Ti is $470, this is same price as here in east europe.
 

PEnnn

Posts: 1,010   +1,361
For the US residents, just one question, the prices on Microcenter are final price or must add VAT or something?
From what I see there are the same shlt prices as here. Ex. a 3060Ti is $470, this is same price as here in east europe.

Not final prices. You have to add local state tax which could be anywhere from 5 - 10 percent.(maybe more, who knows).

In the US almost no merchandise is sold with tax included! It's always additional and hidden from view till you add it to your basket and are about to pay, THEN you will find out the final price,

Other items, like an airline ticket, for example, WILL ALWAYS end up costing almost 2x or more than the advertised price because of all the added fees and hidden charges.
 

yRaz

Posts: 4,973   +6,430
What is this first world country you speak of, the US?
That’s a joke.
The US is actually a great place to live. However, a vocal segment of the population sours it for many people. I don't know what country you hail from but I'm sure your news sensationalizes it's headlines and skews your view of what it's like here.

And a little note about the west coast, not just California, it's weird out there. I'm perfectly happy here in the north east.
 

PEnnn

Posts: 1,010   +1,361
The US is actually a great place to live. However, a vocal segment of the population sours it for many people. I don't know what country you hail from but I'm sure your news sensationalizes it's headlines and skews your view of what it's like here.

And a little note about the west coast, not just California, it's weird out there. I'm perfectly happy here in the north east.

Yeah, on paper it is.

BUT only if you're a fat cat millionaire (the tax code was written specifically for them it seems!).
Otherwise, good luck making ends meet (even while working 2 jobs) and trying to pay exorbitant medical bills if you dare to get sick and have to go to a hospital!!

Or even if you lose your job and suddenly you have no healthcare coverage and are at the mercy of health insurance company bureaucrats!!

Otherwise, it's not bad.
 

takaozo

Posts: 514   +812
Not final prices. You have to add local state tax which could be anywhere from 5 - 10 percent.(maybe more, who knows).

In the US almost no merchandise is sold with tax included! It's always additional and hidden from view till you add it to your basket and are about to pay, THEN you will find out the final price,

Other items, like an airline ticket, for example, WILL ALWAYS end up costing almost 2x or more than the advertised price because of all the added fees and hidden charges.
Then it's the same base price, you just add VAT 5-10% in US and 19-24% in EU, depending on country. Thanks for clearing out.
Final price for a $470 3060Ti in:
US = $493-517
EU = $559-582
That is a long way from MSRP $400........
 

yRaz

Posts: 4,973   +6,430
Yeah, on paper it is.

BUT only if you're a fat cat millionaire (the tax code was written specifically for them it seems!).
Otherwise, good luck making ends meet (even while working 2 jobs) and trying to pay exorbitant medical bills if you dare to get sick and have to go to a hospital!!

Or even if you lose your job and suddenly you have no healthcare coverage and are at the mercy of health insurance company bureaucrats!!

Otherwise, it's not bad.
healthcare is an issue, but only in states that are big on "union busting".

It's easy to make a good living in the US, I'm constantly recruiting for the company I work for and we simply cannot find people who want to work. I know people who would literally rather make $15/hr cooking rather than have a career that pays for an education, has great benefits and even a pension. The vocal people who talk about this stuff simply don't want to work. They'd rather complain on reddit about their crappy job and crippling student debt than actually do something about it.

At my company we are so short staffed that I could start you tomorrow with a 100K/yr job, no skills required and all you have to do is pass a drug test and show up for work.
 

yRaz

Posts: 4,973   +6,430
I don't buy into 8k displays. You'd need a monster screen area to actually see the difference. I game on a 32" display 2k. I can barely see a difference in 4k half meter away. Yes, I checked my eyesight. I understand 4k for 40"+, but 8k? Unless you game from the couch.
if you look at my other posts you'd see that I use a 65"4k screen as my display. I use it because it's 1)cheaper than multi monitor setups and 2)I get a large beautiful display instead of 4 crappy ones.

I want my next display to be 8k because while 65"4k is 'tolerable' the pixel density still gets to me. I want 8k and while 8k gaming is still years away, I want a display I can grow into over time. Buy once and cry once. Just because I have an 8k display doesn't mean I need to game at 8k. Latency might be an issue but none of the games I play are particularly twitch based. I do know my use case is very niche.
 

takaozo

Posts: 514   +812
AMD just can't catch-up in the last years as much as we all would like them to do. From the interview I get that they already assumed second place and like it. AMD is the value (more than good enough for asked price) product for many me included. There is money to be made from all SKU's in the GPU market.
But coming with statements like:
our product do not catch fire
our product do not melt
our product is energy efficient (@350w?)
our product does not require a new case and PSU
Looks to me like politic propaganda before elections.
 

yRaz

Posts: 4,973   +6,430
AMD just can't catch-up in the last years as much as we all would like them to do. From the interview I get that they already assumed second place and like it. AMD is the value (more than good enough for asked price) product for many me included. There is money to be made from all SKU's in the GPU market.
But coming with statements like:
our product do not catch fire
our product do not melt
our product is energy efficient (@350w?)
our product does not require a new case and PSU
Looks to me like politic propaganda before elections.
It's not a stretch to say that's true, but I would like to point something out quickly. Nobody wants a 4090. It's a joke among reviewers and AMD's 7000 series isn't even out yet. 4090's require new cases, new power supplies and, for what? What does the 4090 offer that makes it desirable. Even to the most extreme enthusiasts the 4090 is a joke.

The "performance at all cost" ideology has reached it's limit. We have 4 slot GPUs with 600watt TDP's that are literally melting their power cables. It was a massive red flag to me when the pins were a smaller gauged wire from what it was replacing. Turns out, that wasn't a red flag. However, they do say when you look at something through rose colored glasses all of the red flags just look like flags.
 
I agree but also disagree with your statement. I’m very interested in the high end tier because I don’t want to have to upgrade my gpu for 6 years or so. When you look at new AAA games like cyberpunk the 4090 can just keep more than 60fps in ultra at 4k and that’s with dlss quality. If devs keep pushing ray tracing more and more it will just be even more demanding. When devs start using UE5 it will destroy current gpus on ultra settings. All this said most people don’t play on 4k with ultra, but they do exist like me.

>>>I also agree, but also disagree with your statement.

I see ur point in top tier card lasting longer for performance. 2 factors that are not consistent though that interest me.

CyberPunk2077 was a not so stable game at launch and wondering if performance issues could be better due to the engine was forced above it's capability. We know "CDProjektRed" will stop using their REDEngine and use UnrealEngine5 for all future games. I expect UE5 to be more optimized across all gaming consoles and PCs better than the REDEngine was capable.

Ray-Tracing is also still niche as most GPUs still have poor performance with RT (especially game consoles). This I believe is the biggest reason to use DLSS3 & FSR3 to makeup for ray-tracing performance until another 6 years of GPU advancements makes RT a standard feature that everyone can enjoy.

To each their own on prices, but I'm only interested in MSRP GPU starting under $1,000 as I don't see the performance increase worth hundreds of dollars extra. The giant coolers severely killed any anticipation of the top tier 4090 for me personally.
 

Warrior247

Posts: 24   +19
>>>I also agree, but also disagree with your statement.

I see ur point in top tier card lasting longer for performance. 2 factors that are not consistent though that interest me.

CyberPunk2077 was a not so stable game at launch and wondering if performance issues could be better due to the engine was forced above it's capability. We know "CDProjektRed" will stop using their REDEngine and use UnrealEngine5 for all future games. I expect UE5 to be more optimized across all gaming consoles and PCs better than the REDEngine was capable.

Ray-Tracing is also still niche as most GPUs still have poor performance with RT (especially game consoles). This I believe is the biggest reason to use DLSS3 & FSR3 to makeup for ray-tracing performance until another 6 years of GPU advancements makes RT a standard feature that everyone can enjoy.

To each their own on prices, but I'm only interested in MSRP GPU starting under $1,000 as I don't see the performance increase worth hundreds of dollars extra. The giant coolers severely killed any anticipation of the top tier 4090 for me personally.
It is what it is as far as I’m concerned. I like the 4090, and that’s my market. I haven’t gotten one yet due to availability. I won’t pay scalpers prices either. I’ll wait. But I don’t upgrade very often and want that performance. I’m coming from a Titan Xp, so I’m due. I don’t want to waste money on a 10% upgrade in performance each cycle. Or worst yet, rebrands from these lower end cards. “That’s” a waste of money IMO. The 4090 is a serious upgrade! I’ll pay the money. People have become angry over a card that they’ll never own, and had no intention of buying in the first place. This card is not for you. Power scrimping, minimalist gamers need not apply. There are plenty of cards for everybody at different price points and power levels.
 

Todd Sauve

Posts: 73   +88
I, personally, don't know anyone who has $1600 US to fritter away on a graphics card. For 99.999% of people $1600 is all they have to build a PC from scratch once in every ten years or so. These utterly excessive graphics cards are not money well spent. I'm very happy with my Nvidia RTX 3060Ti and it is going to have to suffice for quite a while. 🤔☺️😏
 

neeyik

Posts: 2,420   +2,963
Staff member
Theoretically, there's still scope for the cards with the Navi 31 chip to be '4090-level' - the stock 7900 XTX is pretty much the same with regards to pixel fill rate (8% higher) and global memory bandwidth (5% lower), but is quite a bit behind in terms of peak FP32 throughput and texture fill rate (both 25% lower).

However, FP32 isn't everything when it comes to games. The 4090 notably outperforms the 3090 Ti becomes the latter has 50-odd% lower texture and pixel fill rates than the 4090, and far less cache too. RDNA 2 showed that AMD's overall cache hierarchy is extremely good and this may well help the 7900 XTX to be within a good distance of 4090.

The rest could be achieved with higher clocks - at 2.505 GHz, the 7900 XTX is the same as the 4090's 2.520 and that's a significantly larger chip. So we could see third-party vendors offering models that blow the power limit out of the window and ship cards but a 25% increase would be 3.13 GHz, which seems pretty unlikely.

However, a 2.8 GHz may well be easily possible and it could well compete in most areas.
 

Puiu

Posts: 5,957   +5,002
TechSpot Elite
Theoretically, there's still scope for the cards with the Navi 31 chip to be '4090-level' - the stock 7900 XTX is pretty much the same with regards to pixel fill rate (8% higher) and global memory bandwidth (5% lower), but is quite a bit behind in terms of peak FP32 throughput and texture fill rate (both 25% lower).

However, FP32 isn't everything when it comes to games. The 4090 notably outperforms the 3090 Ti becomes the latter has 50-odd% lower texture and pixel fill rates than the 4090, and far less cache too. RDNA 2 showed that AMD's overall cache hierarchy is extremely good and this may well help the 7900 XTX to be within a good distance of 4090.

The rest could be achieved with higher clocks - at 2.505 GHz, the 7900 XTX is the same as the 4090's 2.520 and that's a significantly larger chip. So we could see third-party vendors offering models that blow the power limit out of the window and ship cards but a 25% increase would be 3.13 GHz, which seems pretty unlikely.

However, a 2.8 GHz may well be easily possible and it could well compete in most areas.
I expect 2.7 at most for any OC model (and even that will be very high and unlikely). AMD will most likely bin the best chips and save them for a future 7950 release.
 
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