Americans could lose the right to resell their own possessions

[Shawn Knight]

This fall, the Supreme Court will hear a case that could drastically affect your ability to resell everyday items like artwork, books, CDs / DVDs, electronics and even furniture. If a certain book publisher has their way, American consumers would be required to obtain permission to resell anything they own that was made overseas.

It all started when Supap Kirtsaenge, a native of Thailand, moved to the US to attend Cornell University. During his time there, he discovered that the same textbooks he was buying in America sold for significantly less in his home country.

The enterprising young man had friends and family buy books for him in Thailand and ship them abroad. From there, Kirtsaenge started an eBay business that brought in nearly $1.2 million, according to court documents.

Wiley, the book publisher in question, admits they sell textbooks for less outside of the US. Even so, they decided to sue Kirtsaenge for copyright infringement. The Thailand native countered with the first-sale doctrine in copyright law. The doctrine, recognized by the Supreme Court since 1908, states that the copyright holder only has controller over the first sale.

A change in the law could have a profound effect on the entire country. Sites like eBay and especially Craigslist would no doubt suffer. Trading in an old vehicle towards something new would be a nightmare. Manufacturers might even see overseas production as an incentive to cash in on resale later on in a product’s life. The list goes on and on but we’ll stop there for the sake of brevity.

Oral arguments in the case are expected to begin on October 29. A trip to Congress would be up next if the court upholds the appellate court ruling.

Permalink to story.

https://www.techspot.com/news/50460-americans-could-lose-the-right-to-resell-their-own-possessions.html

 

[Darkshadoe]

China owns everything now...Happy?

 

[NTAPRO]

Never knew it was a right. Thought people sold stuff on ebay and other places because they could get a little money out of it

 

[ReederOnTheRun]

That's a pretty sick idea. So simple, yet so effective.

 

[Guest]

Tell me that this has nothing to related with music, videogames, movies and digital distribution??....another stupidity to tight bussiness profit on the US.

 

[Blue Falcon]

NTAPRO, are you serious? If reselling items was not a right, it would not be allowed. It's common sense, unless you thought everyone was reselling items illegally all this time.

 

[Adhmuz]

This is the biggest problem with the US, it use to be a free market that you can buy and sell what you want to whom you want. However now, its run by corporations, then when things don't go their way they sue, and in this case will likely win. When in fact it's nothing more than competition, something that seems to be unexpected by Wiley because they hold a monopoly in the area. And they want to law changed in their favor, what a surprise... Honestly what Supap is doing is genius, and I know people who do the same thing with sites like deal extreme and Alibaba, can get anything for less than half what you pay around here, so very decent profit margins.

 

[Divvet]

This is the most retarded law I have ever seen. Thank god I live in the UK.

 

[Tygerstrike]

It doesnt matter where you live Divvet. Copyright Law is global. If they change the definitions and perameters fo that Law, it will affect everyone equaly. In the US, it may cause problems. But world wide, it may be disasterous. I can see the piles and piles of court filings. Corp Layers will be swarming swap meets and yard sales looking for items they can litigate on. Next thing you know they will be chasing ambulances......sarcasm off.
I simply use that anology there to point out that it may be more media hype. What the above gentleman in the article is doing, is no different then any other business out there. BUY LOW,SELL HI. I dont believe that the yard sale, garage sale, swap meet, corner swap meet, or any other PRIVATE monetary dealings will truly be impacted at all. It just wouldnt be profitable for any company to go after a private individual who resells his old GameBoy. However it is a warning for those ppl who make a business online following a similar business model as the above mentioned gentleman.

 

[KakersUK]

I have to agree with Tygerstrike, this does affect the UK too. It would only be a matter of time, as much as it pains me to say everyone follows suit to the USA's grand scheme and you can see corporate influence getting stronger not just here but in Europe as well, all fuelled by the great patent war.

 

[Guest]

I could see this maybe applying to large amounts of a certain item but good luck taking away yard sales. I can tell you I'll sell the stuff I've already paid for regardless.

 

[shamus087]

Heh, if this passes, might as well move to China and deal with their ways. At least they're not shy about it.

 

[Darkshadoe]

"It just wouldnt be profitable for any company to go after a private individual who resells his old GameBoy"

Its not "profitable" for the RIAA and MPAA to go after illegal downloaders either..but yet they still do. In fact, MORE people sell items LEGALLY than there are illegal downloaders. Stupidity has never stood in the way of people trying to caplitalize and take advantage of others.

 

[Divvet]

It doesnt matter where you live Divvet. Copyright Law is global. If they change the definitions and perameters fo that Law, it will affect everyone equaly. In the US, it may cause problems. But world wide, it may be disasterous. I can see the piles and piles of court filings. Corp Layers will be swarming swap meets and yard sales looking for items they can litigate on. Next thing you know they will be chasing ambulances......sarcasm off.
I simply use that anology there to point out that it may be more media hype. What the above gentleman in the article is doing, is no different then any other business out there. BUY LOW,SELL HI. I dont believe that the yard sale, garage sale, swap meet, corner swap meet, or any other PRIVATE monetary dealings will truly be impacted at all. It just wouldnt be profitable for any company to go after a private individual who resells his old GameBoy. However it is a warning for those ppl who make a business online following a similar business model as the above mentioned gentleman.

You have a very fair point, but I have to correct you, Copyright law is not global, hence all the different Apple vs Samsung law suits in different countries.

 

[Divvet]

But I can't see this law being passed, it would destroy so many second hand industries.

 

[cliffordcooley]

I can see people getting shot over trying to enforce this law. I find it funny at how they think such a law would even be considered. Everything in the super market shelves is made from overseas. There are hundreds/thousands of people in every town/city that resale their property when they no longer have a use for it.

If a certain book publisher has their way, American consumers would be required to obtain permission to resell anything they own that was made overseas.

This wouldn't even be a problem if they wasn't extorting specific countries for more money. If the books are sold for less elsewhere, obviously they can be sold for less everywhere. They had better start treating every country as equals before this law goes into effect.

Wiley, the book publisher in question, admits they sell textbooks for less outside of the US. Even so, they decided to sue Kirtsaenge for copyright infringement.

copyright infringement? A product is bought, transported, and then sold again. This is done with every product on the market. If he is guilty of anything it would be guilt of being a business man. Now if they were charging him with failure to pay import/export taxes, that is a different story.

On second thought, this would open new job opportunities. Can you imagine the number of people it would take to answer a phone call from people needing to resale a product and need permission first. I don't think this company is thinking clearly about what it is they are asking for. I personally do not think the company is willing to pay extra employees, for the sole purpose of giving resale permissions over a phone call. Besides how would they even police such a law, honestly this is a pathetic example of how companies think.

 

[wiyosaya]

Since this was already decided in 1908 by the Supreme Court and being a US citizen, I will hope that stare decisis is the rule in the Supreme Court. If not, perhaps all Supreme Court decisions are up for grabs by the first plaintiff with the deepest wallet.

 

[Darkshadoe]

But I can't see this law being passed, it would destroy so many second hand industries.

Exactly. Say goodbye to EBAY and Craigslist. I can see the auto industry being flushed down the drain. Want to by a new car? Hope you didn't intend to trade in your old car as part of the payment. Want to use your old car as parts..sorry can't do that either. Many families depend on thrift stores to made ends meet. Say goodbye to them as well. Want to donate to Goodwill and get a tax deduction?..sorry that's gone now too.

All of this because one greedy bastard got owned by some smart kid.

 

[cliffordcooley]

All of this because one greedy bastard got owned by some smart kid.

LOL, OMG ROTFLMAO

Whew, let me catch my breath.

 

[Guest]

Copyright law is not global. If it were then you would not have torrentsites and vpn servers and other such things hiding their information in other countries where the Yanks can not simply go enforce their laws.
Sure they do enforce their rules, illegaly, coz thats America for you. But at the same time Divvet is wrong as the UK loves nothing more than following anything American. We used to have discos at schools, now we too have proms. We are trying to allow the right to kill intruders on our property, as long as we can prove we had the right to use such force.
You see its all about greed. Everything is outsourced to a cheaper country for better profits, human rights laws force wages to rise and rise to help the people, and then inflation comes along to make up for the new costs of running a company, which in turn lead to a fat tw@t at the top to think, I need to be making 50% more money than everyone, at least, I too shall take a pay rise, skim off the top. And should that Fat cat not be able to do so legally, or his company needs to make more money and need a lil help to bend rules, our politicians all over the world are more than happy to take that fat back hander, to see that certain things go their way.
As long as they have enough money to have money sit in the bank, property, vehicles, 2nd homes, holiday homes, then nothing else matters, they dont have a conscience and they dont give a crap about anyone else, no one these days do.

 

[Zilpha]

Copyright law is not global. If it were then you would not have torrentsites and vpn servers and other such things hiding their information in other countries where the Yanks can not simply go enforce their laws.
Sure they do enforce their rules, illegaly, coz thats America for you. But at the same time Divvet is wrong as the UK loves nothing more than following anything American. We used to have discos at schools, now we too have proms. We are trying to allow the right to kill intruders on our property, as long as we can prove we had the right to use such force.
You see its all about greed. Everything is outsourced to a cheaper country for better profits, human rights laws force wages to rise and rise to help the people, and then inflation comes along to make up for the new costs of running a company, which in turn lead to a fat tw@t at the top to think, I need to be making 50% more money than everyone, at least, I too shall take a pay rise, skim off the top. And should that Fat cat not be able to do so legally, or his company needs to make more money and need a lil help to bend rules, our politicians all over the world are more than happy to take that fat back hander, to see that certain things go their way.
As long as they have enough money to have money sit in the bank, property, vehicles, 2nd homes, holiday homes, then nothing else matters, they dont have a conscience and they dont give a crap about anyone else, no one these days do.

Yea, but "we, the people" sure as hell aren't doing anything about it. Back in the day, when a tyrant went too far, the people would overthrow him by force. Now? We live in a soft society of crybabies who would rather post on internet forums than actually do anything about it.

 

[tonylukac]

In China they allow selling of copied cds and dvds. This is democracy.

 

[Greg S]

You have a very fair point, but I have to correct you, Copyright law is not global, hence all the different Apple vs Samsung law suits in different countries.

Those a patent disputes, not copyright disputes. Two completely different things.

 

[Vrmithrax]

I, for one, can't wait to hear the oral arguments. It will be more than enlightening to listen to how Wiley justifies what is essentially price gouging of students in the US, all while every politician is chanting a mantra about making affordable secondary education a priority for America. Seems like quite a little dichotomy there...

The fact that it has gotten so far, and is wasting so much of everyone's time (up to the Supreme Court!), over a situation that their own arbitrary regional price fixing has created, just hammers home how fundamentally flawed our legal system can be at times.

 

[Wagan8r]

The suit will not be upheld. There's no way that the Supreme Court, regardless of their political leanings, will side with Wiley. I'm predicting a 9-0 ruling on this.