China will use aging chips while its semiconductor industry catches up

nanoguy

Posts: 717   +12
Staff member
In brief: China wants to become a dominant force in technology, but in the process they may have taken a few shortcuts, which explains why it's locked into a costly trade war with the United States. Semiconductors are among the biggest pain points however, which is why the country is investing $155 billion into research and development of advanced chip making technologies.

As the trade war between China and the US rages on, the Chinese government is doing everything in its power to prop up the local tech industry. Flagship chinese companies like Huawei no longer get access to American silicon or the software required for their products.

As of writing, China is capable of covering over 20 percent of the chips needed in the local industry, but the Chinese government plans to increase that number to 70 percent by 2025.

This is part of the country's famous "3-5-2" policy to replace all foreign hardware and software from its public infrastructure with homegrown solutions, which will inevitably impact some American tech giants such as Dell, HP, and Microsoft.

China is pouring exorbitant sums of money into local tech companies hoping to close the technology gap as soon as possible. In 2019 alone, the government approved $29 billion in subsidies for companies like Zhaoxin, Huawei, and SMIC.

Zhaoxin is currently developing x86 processors, while Huawei is working on Arm-based CPUs, as well as GPUs and AI accelerator cards. SMIC is by far the most important piece of the puzzle, as evidenced by last year's $7.6 billion share sale. It is, after all, the country's largest foundry, and key to reducing China's reliance on imported chips.

This will be a monumental task, as the country's appetite for silicon has been growing quickly, reaching 543 billion units worth $350 billion in 2020. This is why China is investing no less than $155 billion through 2025 in bolstering its local semiconductor manufacturing capacity over the next five years. And that's just one slice of the estimated $1.4 trillion budget that President Xi Jinping has pledged for China's digital transformation journey in the coming years.

Last year, the Trump administration tightened the screws on SMIC's ability to trade with photolithography equipment manufacturers that produce advanced EUV machines. As a result, China is now buying almost all of the used machines from countries like Japan for $1 million apiece even though they've been rendered obsolete by much more advanced equipment. At the same time, it's also purchasing $1.2 billion worth of old, deep ultraviolet lithography (DUV) equipment from Dutch manufacturer ASML.

The idea is to use this older equipment to make chips for automotive, industrial and military applications, where process nodes like 14 nm and 28 nm are mature and perfectly adequate for these applications.

In the meantime, SMIC is working to build more 300 mm wafer manufacturing plants and catch up with TSMC and Samsung on more advanced process nodes. It's a bold plan, and one that will undoubtedly take a decade to unfold and which will be peppered with failures along the way. It is, however, easier than trying to change how the Internet works, which is going nowhere fast.

Permalink to story.

 

Dimitriid

Posts: 295   +512
So ultimately, what this emargo is going to accomplish is an increase in China emissions since they'll be running very old and very power inefficient hardware and not just small case we're talking data centers so A LOT of power.

This is fuuuuuuuun.
 

Danny101

Posts: 1,554   +665
Had it not been for the pro-China policies the world had fostered, communist China would have collapse like the Soviet Union. So. What does that tell you about the globalists and their goal? The private western central bank system is pro-communism and that is just a fact. The private western central bank system starting with America's Federal Reserve needs to be eliminated before freedom can prosper.
 
So an interesting conundrum for a start up Reram company (4DS) about to be bought out by a bigger player... US, China, Taiwan .... Which one comes up with the most cash ?
 

terzaerian

Posts: 662   +923
Had it not been for the pro-China policies the world had fostered, communist China would have collapse like the Soviet Union. So. What does that tell you about the globalists and their goal? The private western central bank system is pro-communism and that is just a fact. The private western central bank system starting with America's Federal Reserve needs to be eliminated before freedom can prosper.
If only there were an alternative system of storing and transacting value that could be used to erode its power, eh?
 

Daniele 00

Posts: 90   +76
Had it not been for the pro-China policies the world had fostered, communist China would have collapse like the Soviet Union. So. What does that tell you about the globalists and their goal? The private western central bank system is pro-communism and that is just a fact. The private western central bank system starting with America's Federal Reserve needs to be eliminated before freedom can prosper.
... I dunno about the secont part of your comment, but about the first part, the Soviet Union, it did not collapse by it own as your words seems to imply. It collapsed for the expenses of Afgan war, in the context of the cold war.
... or, are you implying that "communist China" should make collapse in a similiar way of URSS ? ps: China is a capitalist country, directed by a communist party. "Communist China" was the past.
 
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orbital

Posts: 27   +29
... I dunno about the secont part of your comment, but about the first part, the Soviet Union, it did not collapse by it own as your words seems to imply. It collapsed for the expenses of Afgan war, in the context of the cold war.
... or, are you implying that "communist China" should make collapse in a similiar way of URSS ? ps: China is a capitalist country, directed by a communist party. "Communist China" was the past.

USSR collapsed because USA convinced/blackmailed Saudi Arabia into overproduction and supply of oil in the end of the 1980's that destroyed one of the biggest sources of USSR to obtain foreign currency. They literally got pennies for times bigger amounts of exported oil and this killed them shortly. Even now a major part of Russia's economy is based on exporting oil and gas to almost anywhere so it is highly dependent on the price of oil at international markets. When it goes down, they economy goes down times more...

Had it not been for the pro-China policies the world had fostered, communist China would have collapse like the Soviet Union. So. What does that tell you about the globalists and their goal? The private western central bank system is pro-communism and that is just a fact. The private western central bank system starting with America's Federal Reserve needs to be eliminated before freedom can prosper.

It's not China that exported all their hi-tech manufacturing with local R&D and technologies there. It was the US corporations that saw ways for exceptional increase in their profits and capitalisation using the slave labour and enjoying the almost complete lack of ecology legislation or regulations in China. Now, many many years later, slaves are on their way to become masters. And those CEOs and stakeholders cannot take it all back anymore. The mistake is done, so are the profits. And the biggest advantage China has now that no external factor can influence is its internal market. It doesn't need the West or the East anymore, or anyone around.
 

Hexic

Posts: 912   +1,211
TechSpot Elite
prove me wrong, but most of world pollution comes from USA.

Actually, not so much - China is producing just under twice the amount of co2 emissions of the US, and just under 5 times the amount of pollution than the 3rd heaviest polluter, India.

They're by far the world's leading polluter. Not sure why everyone forgets this fact..

/E: Google search for proof....
 

Reehahs

Posts: 1,140   +780
Actually, not so much - China is producing just under twice the amount of co2 emissions of the US, and just under 5 times the amount of pollution than the 3rd heaviest polluter, India.

They're by far the world's leading polluter. Not sure why everyone forgets this fact..

/E: Google search for proof....

This sort of thing cannot go on for long.

If you account for historical emissions in developed countries when they themselves were developing, it would be a horrendous. Imagine emissions by British empire being assigned to UK.

Now as long as the developing countries don't try to imitate US life style, one Earth should be enough for all of us.

A good thing that will come out of Chinese silicon manufacturing capacity, is more redundancy in silicon industries leading to less shortages.
 

Danny101

Posts: 1,554   +665
... I dunno about the secont part of your comment, but about the first part, the Soviet Union, it did not collapse by it own as your words seems to imply. It collapsed for the expenses of Afgan war, in the context of the cold war.
... or, are you implying that "communist China" should make collapse in a similiar way of URSS ? ps: China is a capitalist country, directed by a communist party. "Communist China" was the past.
True that China has used capitalism to it's advantage. I would actually view it as more fascist than communist in function. But they identify as communist so we'll just go with it.
 

Dimitrios

Posts: 752   +584
I know I will get banned but China made sure Trump would lose and we all know why Biden is in charge. Expect a reversal on this trade deal. Puzzles just keep adding up.

 

Dimitrios

Posts: 752   +584
Time will tell. Can it all be proved? Waiting to see. So many narrative incongruences to count.

Can TECHSPOT do an article with FAKEBOOK banning people up to 7 days? James Woods and other famous people are getting banned and even Mark Dice. I was banned a total of 5-8 times by posting an article about Biden's wife and him dodging paying a lot in taxes and the article I screenshot was from Wall Street Journal. I was also banned when I posted an article about Biden signing something that had to do with TRANSGEND** with our military. I was banned for 7 days!!!!

Please do an article with FAKETUBE as well many comments were removed within secs. I tried to find other ways but FAKETUBE'S response times for removal were amazingly fast! This is getting worse! I notice on FAKEBOOK'S donation's were mostly from Democrats. Can someone explain why no one is really making a big deal about this? Am I a "tinfoil hat" person now?

Also I found something odd.......................... Me and other's that make comments on CBS news on Fake book and other sites if you bash Biden or state the truth a bot comments you back and links a fake article and usually the bot uses a clever name of the original site from Fakebook with spaces and I flagged it and Fakebook reviews it but doesn't admit it's a spammer. I was looking at other comments and it's a bot. I keep posting the fake profiles but Facebook denies it within 5-30 seconds later, then they remove the power for you to flag that fake profile. WTF?
 
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Danny101

Posts: 1,554   +665
The majority of social media sites are Democrat PAC groups. BLM is too. All donations went to the DNC. Casted as a bottom-up organic organization, but it's definitely a top down run organization. Mysteriously quiet after the election. Sure, everyone can agree there are issues, but everything is exaggerated for political purposes. I lean right. I own it. But I've
also seen groups supposedly on the right mucking with doctored information. Issues matter. Truth matters regardless of where you fall on the political spectrum. If it's doctored in any way, then everyone loses.
 

kiwigraeme

Posts: 266   +228
Careful guys stay on topic - otherwise Bullwinke will reprimand you - he's a a real stickler for rules . my silliness aside -.
Yes China is the biggest polluter - I believe the USA is in absolute terms - ie adding up all past amounts- doesn't matter - China will overtake.

Just remember WE EXPORT our Pollution to China - so we are culpable from our corporates to us as consumers . Hell NZ used to export all it's plastic waste to China . Some EU companies use to dumped toxic chemicals in dumps in West Africa before the EU finally did something
 
USSR collapsed because USA convinced/blackmailed Saudi Arabia into overproduction and supply of oil in the end of the 1980's that destroyed one of the biggest sources of USSR to obtain foreign currency. They literally got pennies for times bigger amounts of exported oil and this killed them shortly. Even now a major part of Russia's economy is based on exporting oil and gas to almost anywhere so it is highly dependent on the price of oil at international markets. When it goes down, they economy goes down times more...



It's not China that exported all their hi-tech manufacturing with local R&D and technologies there. It was the US corporations that saw ways for exceptional increase in their profits and capitalisation using the slave labour and enjoying the almost complete lack of ecology legislation or regulations in China. Now, many many years later, slaves are on their way to become masters. And those CEOs and stakeholders cannot take it all back anymore. The mistake is done, so are the profits. And the biggest advantage China has now that no external factor can influence is its internal market. It doesn't need the West or the East anymore, or anyone around.
Your comment is pure gold.
 

Daniele 00

Posts: 90   +76
Actually, not so much - China is producing just under twice the amount of co2 emissions of the US, and just under 5 times the amount of pollution than the 3rd heaviest polluter, India.

They're by far the world's leading polluter. Not sure why everyone forgets this fact..

/E: Google search for proof....

I did my search and you are right, thank you.
https://www.ucsusa.org/resources/each-countrys-share-co2-emissions

to be precise it is:
28% china
15% Usa
8% Europe
7% India

Not sure why we are always pointing the finger against China, when USA+EU are almost the same (23%~vs28%~). Let's not forget EU and USA are older economies, China need more time to get where USA and EU are in term of energy efficiency. Plus, as it is already been said in here, we (western) exports our pollution to the East, so the pollution created overthere is also our moral responsability.
--
Thank you orbital for your explanation about USA attack on URSS oil revenue. Indeed without enough income, URSS could not stand anymore against USA in the war theater, expecially in Afganistan where the Russian was investing a lot of resources.
 
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Scrye74

Posts: 22   +38
While China is busy funneling money into their tech industry, the U.S. government is deficit spending on every pet project the progressives ever dreamed up. The companies in the U.S. rely on the market to keep them afloat while they invest in R&D to come up with the next best thing and then hope it sells. Meanwhile, China (they aren't a big fan of respecting IP rights) just duplicates what others have done.

This obviously can't continue forever since they will eventually have to start doing their own R&D but by the time that happens, where will the rest of the world be in comparison to China's industrial might?

Is Mandarin still the dominate language in China?