Damaged European undersea cables impact internet connectivity worldwide

Theinsanegamer

Posts: 3,960   +7,017
The idea of different areas of competence does exist, you know.

The Nazis had a very capable submarine force in British waters even as their air force fell apart over Britain. The Soviets had good space launch capability and heavy industrial ability even as their microprocessor industry failed to materialize.

In this case, you are targeting a static target that is almost never explicitly protected by naval assets in an environment where the fog of the war effect dominates all considerations. All you have to do is tell each other before the operation that the target (the cables) will be cut at a specific time and date with enough time beforehand to allow guard banding for unforeseen events.

It is not that hard for an enemy navy to target undersea cables in a coordinated attack.
That argument may have flown a year ago, but now? After seeing how inept the russian navy is (the maintenance schedule of the moskiva is a horror show, engines 10,000 hrs overdue for replacement, radar that interrupts communications, guns that dont work, missiles that dont work, a galley that belongs in a SAW film, ece. And this is the FLAGSHIP) you would have to suppose that their submarines are in a unique admin role away from the rest of the navy, a role in which there is no corruption and everyone is competent.

You'd also have to assume that these super competent sub captians somehow manages to sneak into dense shipping lanes, littered with british subs, french subs, diesel subs form other nations, bouys, and surface ships without once being spotted or heard.

There's no evidence to support that russia's sub fleet is any more competent then anything else in russia. I'd say its far more likely that the sub fleet is barely functional.
I'm not claiming at all it was Russia, but I would like to point out their submarine service is probably more competent than their army.

Only in general terms mind you, they are regarded better and funded better as per the estimations of NATO nations. Now the validity of that is questionable because much like the war undertaken now you only see how good something is when it's in action.

Russian emphasis on their submarine capabilities has increased a great deal since the disastrous 1990s and early 2000s. The Kursk sinking led to apparent reform, and they still held onto important capabilities.

It is likely they have quite a bit of experience with covert operations and communications cables. The USA created these types of operations and directed them at the Soviets in the 1970s. Operation Ivy Bells was a daring wiretap on an undersea Soviet cable. All documented in an incredible book called Blind Man's Bluff. The Soviets found out about it due to traitors, themselves realizing what a great idea it all was. That's where it likely started for them. It is a safe bet they retain similar capabilities today, especially considering the digital age we live in.
Those reforms are useless. The T-90s went through a "reform" process, so did the navy. The result?

T-90s having cardboard and egggshell foam instead of reactive armor

Army being sent in with rations left over from gorbachev

Navy ships being sent in with barely functioning, well, everything.

Air force relying on decades old technology and smart weapons that needed GPS from their ideological opponents to function, and backup systems that cant tell an apartment from a runway

A supply line that had so few trucks it was crippled in 2 weeks, and which left literal tons of food, fuel, and ammunition,a long with hundreds of vehicles behind for their opponents to capture

A military doctrine so outdated it belongs in 1941.

A tank surplus so large that now russia is sending outdated T-62s to the front lines because they ran out of t-0s, t-80s, and t-72s, all of which they supposedly had thousands of, each, ready for service.

I'm sure those russian sub "reforms" were just as effective as moskiva's expensive refitting that left it with engines that barely functioned, weapons that didnt, and a radar system that was utterly useless, so bad that a single shoulder launched Neptune missile from the 80s sunk the flagship of the navy, which was unaware it was even attacked.

NATO estimated that russia's sub fleet was well supplied and effective. NATO also estimated that russia's army, navy, and air force were on par with major western nations. Look how well thats turning out for russia....

I dont see russia being capable of pulling this off. They havent managed anything else, and incompetence runs rampant.
 

Vulcanproject

Posts: 1,594   +2,951
Those reforms are useless
Perhaps. Although my post made it clear that undersea submarine led operations around communications cables are not new. They have been carried out for at least 50 years now. Russia likely saw that as a critical capability. It would certainly be retained by their renewed submarine service. They have two Yasen class SSNs in the Northern fleet that are less than ten years old. They are heavily automated, have mission flexibility and are very quiet. They can still build very good submarines.

I would analyse that most of Russia's serious failures in Ukraine have not necessarily been equipment related. More doctrine, leadership and poor training. They had plenty of 'good enough' equipment to do what they wanted but they bungled it in the face of a real hot war. The fact that so much Russian equipment has fallen into Ukraine's hands and that has aided them significantly is evidence of this too.

The same goes for any submarine operations. Have no doubt they have the ability to cut cables or tap them covertly. If their planning for such ops are carried out more carefully with less intervention from delusionary bureaucracy they could perform the necessary sabotage.

Whether or not Russia would go for undersea sabotage even if it proves to just be a nuisance factor is this debate. Personally I think they would do it if they thought they could get away with it. They love adventurism. They have been caught red handed plenty but then there are also times when undoubtedly they have not. That has been their raison d'etre for years now. Whether they get caught or not they just spin the state media propaganda machine with their subjective truth serum. "What is the truth? Could be anything!" The masses eagerly gobble it all up. The West did nothing. Until this year.
 

Irata

Posts: 2,237   +3,904
Or a trawler, robotic hand, other implement. IF it was a military sub, the military could build just about anything to make it happen, they are not limited to the standard implements of a piece of equipment. There are subs built specifically to lay, splice, and remove cable too....
See, I was with you until you started tumbling into "muh right wing" arguments.
Are you trying to insinuate it was russia? Because so far, russian command has proven so inept or incompetent that a east europe mud ball has utterly wrecked it in war. Do you really think the same country that got its supply lines ruined, had it's supply bridge blown up, and has lost most of the territory it gained though sheer incompetence could somehow pull off a coordinated series of cable attacks without being spotted, off the coast of france of all places?

I doubt it.
Well, they are good at terror attacks on infrastructure / opponents and targets that can‘t fight back.
 

PsyDuck87

Posts: 16   +41
That's why you can't let russian vessels roam freely anymore. If they want to be the modern day nazis they have to be treated like them.
 
It's certainly possible that there was coincidental damage by fishing trawlers, but because that is improbable, other possibilities gain weight. There is no reason for, say, China to be cutting those cables, even if its relatiions with the West aren't perfect, but Russia is actively engaged in a war in Ukraine.
The one reason that I have for not yet being positively convinced that it is almost certainly Russia is that this sort of thing doesn't really gain very much for Russia, if anything at all, and it comes with great risks for them. I mean, sure, invading Ukraine in the first place was a stupid idea, but that doesn't mean there are no limits to their stupidity. Underestimating an enemy is always a bad idea.
yup just like the US Navy was conducting drills overtop the Nordstream pipeline day before the big leak. but oops lets blame for that also.
 

captaincranky

Posts: 19,296   +8,439
Russia is a country with participation in the UN. It is not a terrorist group like AlQaeda. And Russia was the main Nazi exterminator in the past. Your post is more propaganda devoid of proof.
Russia also has a seat on the UN Security Council, with the power to veto any action that council might propose. The veto has been used more than once after any resolution passed. by the UN, involving "cease sand desist" from its invasion of Ukraine..

Russia's invasion and current actions against Ukraine, were condemned by no fewer than 140+ countries, yet Putin still does as he pleases, and ignores them.

There's such a thing as, "state sponsored terrorism", and "plausible deniability". predicates itself upon it..

And BTW, Josef Stalin killed more Russians than the 3rd Reich ever did, with some claims running as high as 20 million.
 
Those countries that are condemning Russia are doing so hoping for a financial gifr from USA taxpayers lol. USA just 100m to phillipines for example to change helicopters. what is happening in ukr.russ. is a civil war but sponsored by biden and dahrk hats.
 

Geralt

Posts: 1,320   +2,149
Well, they are good at terror attacks on infrastructure / opponents and targets that can‘t fight back.
You can go to the Ukraine frontline to check your point. A country that destroyed the Nazi army shouldn't be underestimated.
 

AlaskaGuy

Posts: 754   +630
That's why you can't let russian vessels roam freely anymore. If they want to be the modern day nazis they have to be treated like them.
And who's going to stop them? The EU and their non existent military? Four countries on this planet have a real navy ... the US, UK, Russia and China. Maybe it's time for the EU to step up their game although I wouldn't count on it.
 
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lripplinger

Posts: 390   +188
Just curious, what does the Russian Federation have to do with any of this? Does TechSpot have skin in the game, when it comes to world politics? This "article" should at least be labeled as an opinion editorial, and not actual fact. It seems I can't read unbiased tech news even here anymore?
 

kinetix

Posts: 66   +59
Sorry, but everyone and their mothers (if they were interested) have seen that the T-62s were sent to the separatist militias, that the only tanks they had were that captured from the Ukrainian army, mainly T-64s. In the meantime, many videos continue to be seen of more and more trainloads of T-72s, T-80s and T-90s (even T-90Ms) and all kinds of IFV, SPG, etc, being sent from russia to the front lines (I read somewhere that many are being sent to factories for apply upgrades and take them to upper standards), and now more to belarus (northern front again?). so it doesn't seem that they are running out of armor (or perhaps we forgot how since March the media, politicians and interested parties have been telling us that they were running out of cruise missiles, and look, lately it seems that they are reproducing, daily)

the Moskva cruiser was the flagship of their Black Sea fleet, not of the entire navy. There is another ship of the same type that is the flagship of the Baltic fleet. Russia has 4 fleets and 2 flotillas.

Neptune is not "shoulder launched", one would have to have a huge and powerful shoulder to use it like that, lol. and no, what really hit the ship is not publicly known, it may have been even a mine. the reality is known only by the military/governments, from each side. everything else is propaganda and disinformation fed to the media, a classic war thing

about weapons and their accuracy and guidance, again, propaganda and misinformation by the media and politicians. those who one day say "the missiles fail and fall anywhere" and the next day say "those are high-precision weapons, if they hit there, it's because that was their objective", that's how the narrative changes as they see fit. I would recommend reading a July report from the Royal United Services Institute for Defense and Security Studies from UK, "Ukraine at War: Paving the Road from Survival to Victory", page 21, quote: "Briefings by the Pentagon have reported that a large number of Russian cruise missiles fail to either find their targets or malfunction and crash in flight. As far as Ukrainian military scientists can determine, this is actually quite rare." and the report's authors say so based on their on-the-field research, and as you read, the report from the ukrainian military scientists.

Anyway, every weapon has a percentage of error and failure, and if they are also knocked down they will fall on top of wherever they are. meanwhile, we see missiles from the ukr air defense failing and falling to the ground on the cities, impacting anywhere.

about tactics and strategies, I would recommend reading two articles published a few months ago in the US Marine Corps Gazette by several active and retired US military, largely apart from what is heard from the interested parties in one way or another.

so, I think you should be a little more informed, get your head out of the *** of the media, politicians and other vermin.
 
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captaincranky

Posts: 19,296   +8,439
You guys have yet to discover how much nicer Polish vodka is.
Unfortunately, I've been saddled with a refined sugar addiction, inflicted on me by my granny, at a very young age.

So, anybody's vodka is, "off the table", so to speak, and I drown my miseries in spiced rum instead. Only sugar cane whiskey from the Caribbean for me, argh!
 

captaincranky

Posts: 19,296   +8,439
You can go to the Ukraine frontline to check your point. A country that destroyed the Nazi army shouldn't be underestimated.
Well, first of all, in WWII, the German army was overextended, without the necessary material or logistical support to sustain itself.

Second, the casualties on the Russian side were many multiples of those of the Germans.

None of that takes into account the number of Russians killed by Stalin as collaborators. Reports of this genocide are sketchy, but some claim as many as 20 million victims of this purge.

Or, is that just "propaganda" as well?

Somebody even wrote a song about "Operation Barbarossa"


Oh, and BTW the allies were bombing the living sh!t out of the German homeland at the same time.
 
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kmo911

Posts: 352   +44
If these ones get broken . it would no be a shark. BITE. we could just run trough sattelite then. mARK them with painting. if they run over them they get marked for life. juSt do it like with stolen money, a ampull will go off and nawigation will be like a DRUNK ape on steroids.
how deep can you go ?
 
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Irata

Posts: 2,237   +3,904
You can go to the Ukraine frontline to check your point.
What would the point of that be ? The Russians have already sufficiently demonstrated that their are good at killing civilians.

Note: Am extremely proud of foreign volunteers with military experience (that I lack completely) who help defend Ukraine against the Fascist hordes invading their country.
 

Gimp65

Posts: 81   +163
If Russia was responsible I can only assume this was payback for the US blowing up Nord Stream.
You gotta be more than just retarded to think the US blew up that pipeline...look, the U.S they dont need to do desperate things like putin.
 
Russia is a country with participation in the UN. It is not a terrorist group like AlQaeda. And Russia was the main Nazi exterminator in the past. Your post is more propaganda devoid of proof.
Russia made it possible for the Nazis to create military power.
Russia in alliance with the Nazis started the 2nd World War.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German–Soviet_military_parade_in_Brest-Litovsk
Russia was the only one to gain enormous territory in World War II - the territory of Poland, which Russia conquered in 1939, was incorporated into the USSR after the war. In addition, Russia established its power over all the countries of Eastern Europe by forcibly establishing governments consisting of Soviet agents in these countries.