Europe is building its own payment network to finally compete with Visa and Mastercard
- Thread starter Alfonso Maruccia
- Start date
France doesn't "buy" those stories reasons much, not because they are wrong, but just because they are against the other countries.
The history shows how France always tried to conquer Europe, one way or the other; France just blocks a lot of European stuff so that their economy works:
- they have a debt of over 3 trillion
- they give money to the retired or those that don't want to work, so that the politicians get voted, way higher than they put in the system their entire lives... How it's supposed to work?! Easy: you take from there middle class + cut the public investment (schools, police, etc)
- they really NEED to sell their energy, but many countries produce now their own electric energy. And Portugal and Spain are blocked to transport and sell theirs (as well as gas) through France, so that France sells what they have for more money
- French companies operate high speed trains in Spain, but when the opposite is demanded, France rejects using "interoperability matters"
- If the Spanish agricultures try to sell in Europe, the French block their way, because the Spanish can sell for cheaper
I could be here all day...
All in all, the French are "cool" as long as they win and sell what is theirs. Not that the German or netherlanders are too different....
newpowerrobot
Posts: 22 +16
Europe does support America's war with Iran. Iran has some very questionable policies but, then again, so does America. Europe is currently in the middle of disconnecting itself from America. It's ironic that Trump says he wants to make America great again but all his actions make America more isolated. Being isolated in a global world, especially when you don't have a cheap work force, is a very dangerous thing. Making your country bankrupt while doing this is just suicidal (the AI bubble, US debt, US bonds crashing, expensive and pointless wars, losing trade partners).
There's no real need to make peace with Russia as it will be largely broken after this war. We will definitely need to accept Iran on it's own terms once America is forced to pull out of the Gulf. It will likely become the new super power in the Gulf due to American actions. On the plus side it has made Europe push even harder towards green energy.
The judges were the ones making Netanyahu a war criminal. It must be Israel putting the screws on Trump to do this. Sometimes I find it hard working out whether Trump is working for the Israelis or for the Russians or just for himself. He certainly isn't working for the American people.
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I can't help but laugh when I read things like this. Every single world leader that has or ever has been mekes over the top statements on almost every subject. Only with Trump does everyone loose their minds. To the best of my knowledge, only one country has made good on gaining more territory, and that was Putin. Trump would quit winding people up if they didn't have such massive overreactions to his outlandish statements. He does this to get people off their game, and guess what, it works. It really shouldn't but it does. And guess what, every other country is out for themselves, has been for a long time,always has been, and no one seems to mind. This is simply the way human nature works. Funny how it's only a problem when the U.S. looks out for themselves.
As for the finance network....Trump, the U.S. government, and all of the politicians have zip to do with Mastercard, AMEX, Visa, etc. Their private companies that were build from the ground up. And as for the bans on porn, guns, and other such things they would not allow, this is a result of perceived public opinion of what the "customers" wanted, not the government mandating them. No more than conservative debanking and loan denials of conservative were done by government. The modern corporation has only one God.....the stockholder and share prices.
I will add to the above paragraph, the U.S. legal system has the ability to muck with the above systems, However, there are pockets of the legal system in the U.S. that can't help but impose their priorities. This part of the system is as much under assult at the legislative and administrative systems are. It will be interesting to see how far the socialists/communists get in the upcomming elections.
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BadThad
Posts: 1,883 +2,097
Keep ignoring Iran until they have nukes, see how that works out for ya in the long run.
Europe should be on it's knees thanking America for seriously crippling the Iran terrorist state and for the DECADES of free protection from Russia! A militarily weak, pathetic EU is in NO CONDITION to protect itself without the USA - never forget and be grateful to the USA.
BadThad
Posts: 1,883 +2,097
They're good at creating new EU "retro active laws" and organizing frivolous lawsuits to extract BILLIONS of dollars from America! Give them some credit. LOL
thewelshbrummie
Posts: 58 +32
It's not even with adult content that this is a problem. Discover is also an option in the US but not everyone take it and it's non-existent in Europe. That and Capital One purchased it last year, so anyone with a Capital One Bank account is basically being forced onto Discover. It basically prevented me from purchasing an Analogue Pocket last week as their store does not take Discover (or PayPal for that matter) basically leaving me with zero options to purchase one directly.
It's nice to see alternatives but you need full adoption for it to be viable. It's the problem Windows Phone had, people didn't buy the phones because it didn't have the apps they need and developers didn't make apps because people weren't buying the phones. It basically forces the duopoly into existence and prevents a break-up without lawsuit intervention.
"Only with Trump does everyone loose their minds" - it comes with the perk of beign the leader of the bigest army in the world and what used to be the pillar of the western economy. And there's another major reason, trump's actions directly affect other countries in very massive ways.
It's normal for people to be stricter with such a position and the only reason why you don't hear more about others is because YOU DON'T CARE. These things always end up in local news and if people like you actually cared you would see it on your news channel too.
As a side-note, it's funny to see americans turn into fascists who can only talk about "communism" without even knowing what communism is. And that's where the funny part stops because the rest is just pure low IQ insanity... the US has a known racist, rapist and pedophile as president who is making billions by committing fraud, all the while his cultists praise his tariffs because they believe that other countries pay them...
It's better than giving those same companies tax cuts while cutting healthcare benefits from the poor. At least the EU doesn't let these companies break the law.
I believe it’s a reference to debanking
Why they didn’t just go with a wallet platform? No *new* backend needed. Wallet to wallet and bank to bank. Etc.
Most of Asia and South America have national wallet apps. It’s 100% software. Transactions and transfers are carried out over the Internet via secure connections to the source of funds and destination of funds. No need for the credit card companies’s networks at all. (Most credit cards don’t allow cash transfers).
They are literally state sponsored versions of ApplePay and Samsung Wallet and the likes.
Most of Asia and South America have national wallet apps. It’s 100% software. Transactions and transfers are carried out over the Internet via secure connections to the source of funds and destination of funds. No need for the credit card companies’s networks at all. (Most credit cards don’t allow cash transfers).
They are literally state sponsored versions of ApplePay and Samsung Wallet and the likes.
Because of how payments are handled and priorities. In Asia QR codes became very popular so they built a system around that.
In Europe the focused on the unified bank instant payments and now they are building around that and it will have both the wallet apps and direct bank app integrations. Payment QR codes will also be developed, but it's not the focus.
Didn’t mention qr codes. Qr codes are a thing but not what I’m talking about. I’m talking about tap to pay NFC and/or direct transfer digital wallets. Eg Apple Cash, Maya, WePay, Xe, etc. gCash, sCash, payVt, The Rio, state sponsored or controlled digital wallets.
Digital cash transfer wallets are already a thing in most of the world. And you don’t need a credit card to use it. They are also used by some very large international companies to settle bills and debts.
The seller/receiver doesn’t pay a cent to Visa, Mastercard, etc. even if the payer is using one of those cards to pay.
This just crosses over to me as reinventing the wheel. Another totally incompatible proprietary network. We already have 6 international payment backends; let’s add a 7th?
I get wanting to get out of the US economy. But this is far more complex, convoluted -and honestly, factually, expensive - than what most countries have done.
Digital cash transfer wallets are already a thing in most of the world. And you don’t need a credit card to use it. They are also used by some very large international companies to settle bills and debts.
The seller/receiver doesn’t pay a cent to Visa, Mastercard, etc. even if the payer is using one of those cards to pay.
This just crosses over to me as reinventing the wheel. Another totally incompatible proprietary network. We already have 6 international payment backends; let’s add a 7th?
I get wanting to get out of the US economy. But this is far more complex, convoluted -and honestly, factually, expensive - than what most countries have done.
Actually Europe is starting to see America as a terrorist state these days. You've kidnapped the president of one country and are stealing their resources, you've killed the leadership and spiritual leader of another country, you've backed the genocide in Palestine, you've started trade wars with most of the world, you've threatened to invade 2 NATO allies, you've started a real war that's affecting world energy supply, you've been killing the citizens of another country without trial or due process, you're threatening to invade Cuba, you've even released the army on your own citizens. And this is all just in the last year !
US bases aren't for protection of the host country, they are installed to project American military, political and economic power around the world. It also appears that the US can't even protect their own bases - I understand 20 US bases have been destroyed in the Gulf by Iran (I'm not sure if there are any left now). They've also destroyed all the radar installations across the area and destroyed 100 aircraft.
I don’t want to get into this on a tech site, we we should all focus on the article at hand, however:
The world does have one thing to learn from this war. A message they are lucky to have found out now, by the US, and not them a few years down the road.
The “big powers” are not prepared for modern warfare. Our missile and defence systems are meant to fight a war 10 years out of date. Missiles and interceptors designed to take down planes, stop large ships, destroy tanks…! Not something the size of a football (either use of the term) flying below radar.
The fact that it was America that stumbled into this reality and not a European country, is lucky for Europe.
The US is one of the three large militaries. If we’re having problems and losing materials, perhaps, perhaps not, losing in this war, no European military would survive. They are all just too small and too compact. (Again, we have minimal outposts larger than many of your bases).
Regardless of how you feel about the US war, there is a very important lesson for NATO and the EU to take away from this: you’re not ready to defend yourselves.
No US bases have been destroyed. A few have been severely damaged. Many have been hit. But perhaps your news is, intentionally or unintentionally, mistaking outposts with bases.
The world does have one thing to learn from this war. A message they are lucky to have found out now, by the US, and not them a few years down the road.
The “big powers” are not prepared for modern warfare. Our missile and defence systems are meant to fight a war 10 years out of date. Missiles and interceptors designed to take down planes, stop large ships, destroy tanks…! Not something the size of a football (either use of the term) flying below radar.
The fact that it was America that stumbled into this reality and not a European country, is lucky for Europe.
The US is one of the three large militaries. If we’re having problems and losing materials, perhaps, perhaps not, losing in this war, no European military would survive. They are all just too small and too compact. (Again, we have minimal outposts larger than many of your bases).
Regardless of how you feel about the US war, there is a very important lesson for NATO and the EU to take away from this: you’re not ready to defend yourselves.
I looked at the first 5 "outposts" that have been destroyed and then looked up how many personnel were on each base. I saw an average of 10,000 personnel stationed at each "outpost". I think that qualifies as a base. They're pretty much empty now and satellite pictures show that they've been flattened.
This same style of warfare has been going on in Ukraine since 2022 and before that in the Azerbaijan Armenia war of 2020. I understand Trump is wanting to go back to battleships and steam catapults on aircraft carriers.
I think Europe would of tried diplomacy first. Iran seemed quite happy to discuss nuclear limits and inspections in the discussions you were having with them right up until the point when you killed all their leadership. I do appreciate that America has a large military but it's losing badly in this war in the same way it lost in Vietnam, Korea and Afghanistan.
NATO has certainly learnt that it's unwise trusting America. It's also learnt that it's very unwise buying American armaments. This has been great for European manufacturers though obviously there'll be a few hiccups along the way. I suspect NATO will be reformed in the coming years with a few notable countries missing.
Flattened is quite the exaggeration. The US has lost 100 and some buildings across the entire region.
I suggest looking at a more reliable source. Or try this for a standard breakdown: Losses by country
I’m not going to go further and feed a political discussion that has nothing to do with the article
I’m glad Europe is trying to loosen its dependency on the US. Most Americans support that just as much as Europeans do.
It has everything to do with the article. Why do you think Europe is moving away from American software? There is absolutely no trust in America, not just in Europe, but around the world.
You're right. America might have evacuated all it's bases in the Gulf for some other completely different reason
That report didn't contradict anything I said but I notice it didn't include the number of bases lost or the number of allies lost. It also didn't show the number of civilians killed, schools blown up and wedding parties eliminated. Or the increased cost of energy brought about by this war.
This process started long before the war in Iran. This is about moving Europe away from the fees involved in processing transactions from American cards on an American financial network.
And this began long before the war in Iran did.
That’s a separate and well covered issue. US companies with US servers could cut of foreign access instantly. With zero recourse for the foreign company. Beyond that there’s the ability of these companies to access stored data for legal reasons based on American law with no regard to foreign data laws.
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I don't think I said anything was solely because of the Iran war. It also has nothing to do with the fees being charged. Many countries around the world started to become a little worried when America recently seized the assets of a country by stopping all access to their funds. When Trump demanded that the same actions were taken on judges in the International Court, because he didn't like their judgement, then the whole process got pushed into overdrive. This must be worry to existing companies like Mastercard and Visa who now stand to lose 75% of their customers.
maybe the EU is an outlier, I don’t really follow Western European news cycles. Fees, both credit card processing, and bank, are the principal reason many countries have, or are developing, national or nationally backed payment systems. Most of the digital wallet type.
Moving $1 equivalent can cost from 2 cents to 45 cents depending on multiple factors. Many countries are decoupling from international, American based, financial platforms.
It both reduces fees paid to a foreign company and maintains the power of control locally.
I’ll skip over the World Court situation generally. I do not know offhand how the US was able to freeze their money, if it wasn’t in US bank accounts.
I’d be very surprised if that number was accurate, in it being the EU has that large a number of customers for the Credit Card Companies.
I have read reports from WSJ, NYT, and Forbes as well as others that all four major US companies have already lost a large measurable amount of customers regardless of what the EU may do someday in the future.
With American distastes for ever-rising fees and interest rates, it’s knocked a huge chunk of people off the credit card fix in this country.
The rise of digital wallets in both Asia and South America over the last decade has both created a huge drop in credit card users and stopped whole generations of ever having a credit card. Rather pointless when so few places accept them, but everyone takes ‘cash or any of all these apps’. None of those require a credit card.
I also highly doubt, even with the mass exodus in the rest of the world, that Europe as a whole comes anywhere close to 75% of the big four’s customer base. Could be wrong, but I highly doubt it.
Actually it’s completely inaccurate. If every single person in the EU of every age had an American-based credit card and every credit card user closed their account at the exact same time, all ~750 million, that’s not even 25% of Mastercard’s 3.4 billion users alone. That’s ignoring the ~620+ million users of the other big 3 US cards.
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