Europe says browser-less Windows 7 not enough

[Jos]

With Microsoft offering to strip their own browser from Windows 7 in Europe, you’d think antitrust regulators are ready to drop charges and go home. Instead, the software giant and European authorities appear on course for another legal collision after the latter dismissed the offer, claiming it is an insufficient step that won't lead to better competition in the browser market.

Apparently regulators want to avoid repeating a mistake they made in 2004, when Redmond was ordered to sell a version of Windows in Europe without its media player; a measure which received poor reception among consumers and didn’t really improve competition all that much. This time, the commission wants computers to display a window when they are first booted up that would give consumers a choice of browsers.

Opera agrees with that scenario, claiming Microsoft’s move “seems almost purposely designed to make fun of the commission and to make it unnecessarily look bad.” And why wouldn’t they; a browser-less Windows 7 would theoretically give them the chance of striking an exclusive deal with PC makers to include their Opera browser as default with new machines, but in reality the company might have a hard time taking advantage of this new landscape when competing with the deep pockets of Google.

Maybe I’m missing something but it seems to me that asking Microsoft to go out of their way and pre-install rival browsers is a bit much, and perhaps even hypocritical of Opera which claims to have consumer’s best interests in mind. PC vendors are already free to ship other browsers with their machines, so I don’t see how allowing this and agreeing to strip IE8 from Windows constitutes anticompetitive behavior. If such a measure is imposed, what’s to stop other software makers from forcing their way into Windows on claims of unfair competition?

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https://www.techspot.com/news/35073-europe-says-browser-less-windows-7-not-enough.html

 

[Guest]

Since we get a lot of junkware pre installed with a new computer anyway, at least there is a chance it may become useful afterall... not!

Considering a possible future scenario, each vendor may be supplying their browser of choice:

e.g.
HP -> Windows 7 + Opera
Sony -> Windows 7 + Firefox
Dell -> Windows 7 + Chrome
Apple -> OSX + Safari (hey, wait a minute... )

 

[Wendig0]

Guest said:
Since we get a lot of junkware pre installed with a new computer anyway, at least there is a chance it may become useful afterall... not!

Considering a possible future scenario, each vendor may be supplying their browser of choice:

e.g.
HP -> Windows 7 + Opera
Sony -> Windows 7 + Firefox
Dell -> Windows 7 + Chrome
Apple -> OSX + Safari (hey, wait a minute... )

I agree with that. Microsoft has been a helluva lot more gracious than I would have been if I were running things. I would have most likely told the EU to piss off and suck it.

 

[TomSEA]

At this stage of the game it doesn't matter what MS does in regards to browsers - EU isn't going to be happy about it and will "find" a way to sue.

I think MS should piss them off 100%. Offer NO Windows 7 sales to Europe and keep the OS in the America's and in the Asian countries.

 

[tomrice32]

... really getting silly now. Why they should be forced to provide other companies' products truly beats me. And why are Apple getting away with it anyway? End of the day it is Microsoft's operating system, and as long as it does not block you from installing 3rd party software why on earth shouldn't they be allowed to put whatever the hell they want on it? I really hope they give Europe the 2 fingers now. They're just picking on Microsoft for no reason to make a load of money. I wonder what the EU will come up with next if MS actually comply with this crap.

To be clear, though I am a Windows user, as a web developer I really really am not a fan of Internet Explorer, but come on... I can tell something ridiculous when I see it. To be honest I would personally love it if they offered a choice of browsers, but the question is why the hell should they?

 

[Guest]

Microsoft didn't kill Netscape. Netscape killed it self after 4.0 by creating an over bulky browser with a croppy rendering engine. I am a web developer and Netscape rendered codes were below par and was all ways slower then IE. Can't blame MS for making a better product.

I think MS Windows 7 should have the option of installing or not installing IE. It's that simple.

 

[Rage_3K_Moiz]

This is retarded. MS should give the EU the finger and threaten to not release Windows 7 there at all. The consumer backlash would be overwhelming enough to put an end to this stupidity.

 

[Guest]

How is Grandma Ethel going to surf the internet if her first pc is a Windows 7 machine sans browser? IE 5 was at least good enough to download Firefox.

 

[Guest]

Great idea everyone... Since MS is the one company that doesn't put profit before everything else they sure as hell should pass on releasing Win 7 to the EU and waste millions of dollars - And sure - I mean they have all rights to be upset - the EU could have hinted much earlier that they were breaking their laws.. oh no wait a minute - they did...

 

[TomSEA]

I'm not going to deny that MS has had a history of being very arrogant with their products. But the EU has been jerking their chain for a LONG, LONG time now routinely dragging them in and out of court for what seems to be the most insignificant of issues, just to get MS to cut them a check because they can.

Oh yeah, and all the while MS products are being pirated like nobody's business across Europe with zero ramification or assistance from the EU to stem that.

I wouldn't begrudge MS a bit to hold out on selling Windows 7 there.

 

[Rage_3K_Moiz]

Great idea everyone... Since MS is the one company that doesn't put profit before everything else they sure as hell should pass on releasing Win 7 to the EU and waste millions of dollars - And sure - I mean they have all rights to be upset - the EU could have hinted much earlier that they were breaking their laws.. oh no wait a minute - they did...

The EU is a bunch of crybabies who just need money from time to time to shut up. Once was enough IMO.

And besides, the money they'd make from Windows 7 would probably be negated from the number of "fines" that they'd have to pay to the EU. And I believe that if Windows 7 RTM is even half as good as the RC, MS deserves to earn a profit from it.

 

[raybay]

I think Microsoft should stop shipping to Europe, until the European users start to raise hell.
Asking that they change the OS is beyond the pale.

 

[oxeyereed]

So if Windows comes without an internet browser, how are you supposed to get on the internet to download a competing internet browser?

 

[Captain828]

seanp789 said:
So if Windows comes without an internet browser, how are you supposed to get on the internet to download a competing internet browser?

Quote of the day!

 

[NunjaBusiness]

captain828 said:

seanp789 said:
So if Windows comes without an internet browser, how are you supposed to get on the internet to download a competing internet browser?

Quote of the day!

Actually, you used to be able to use Windows Explorer (the file manager) as a browser. A few years back, I often used it when IE didn't work right (back when I still used XP.)

Does that not work anymore?

 

[tengeta]

Windows Explorer requires IE to be installed to understand the internet protocols, Windows Explorer on its own is incapable of websurfing.

As for this whole pop up screen where you choose what you want...
TERRIBLE FREAKIN IDEA. "Choose your favorite from these government sponsored programs!"

Computers are done if this is their future, people will only start using them less if you make a computer exactly like a cell phone. Don't think thats whats happening? You have become delusional.

Of course, these are the same people saying "Hey, we want to penalize the crap out of you, but please still do business here because our economy likes it" and "We use open source software, but since we don't actually know how to use it and still use Windows instead we want what WE want on it".

 

[SNGX1275]

The EU started off with good intentions many years ago, maybe over 10 years ago now. But now they are an example of just how bad a 'government' can get if you let them. Why in the blank do they have any say in what any OS provider CAN or CANNOT ship with their OS? What happened to the consumer making the decision??


That above was just any general thoughts, what follows is my opinion:
MS f'd up when they refuesd to make IE6 better. Opera had been beating the pants off them since 2000 but they ignored it because they owned market share. FF started owning them in 2004ish? and it took until 2006 before microsoft woke up. so F them, F their browser, F them all, PROVE to me its a better brower (IE 8) don't assume I think yours is the best.

I can see the EU being upset about other adons like the firewall, or the malware protection, or the new antivirus. but come on, these are pretty recent things, and ALSO everyone that has ever bitched about MS has bitched those weren't built in (oddly enough). So... Lets see some balance in the arguments here.

 

[Guest]

The only way This Jose Vilches' guy comments about Bill Gay's browser is the right answer is if you're considering this Microsoft monopoly issue from the Microsoft perspective. That is, the wrong perspective. I am sure the microsoft board of directors and stockholders will be thrilled reading Vilches make his pro-monopoly arguments as much as hard-line Republicans love it when Rush Limbaugh says George Bush has been their best president ever. Vilches' remarks are sweet to hear to a few, but mean absolutely nothing to the rest of world.
From my perspective as a consumer forced to rely on Microsoft's bulky, slow and inferior products, I would welcome the oportunity to switch to Firefox and screw Internet Explorer for good. From another, more important perspective, everybody has the right to try and make a living as an adventurer or businessman in the software industry without having to endure the predatorial tactics of the biggest monopoly ever. Think about the clever designers of Netscape, the true pioneers of the Internet Era being run-out of business because Microsoft shamelessly claiming Internet Explorer was some kind of Windows code and not a web-browser!! And then instructing retailers to sell their computers with windows and Internet Explorer or nothing at all.

But guess what? "El que a hierro mata, a hierro muere": There is a new monopoly in town called Google. I am looking forward to seeing Google take Microsoft to the Ground.

 

[mattfrompa]

If I get a team together and we create our own browser, would Opera be willing to host a download for my browser on their site? I mean, otherwise they aren't adequately supporting healthy competition. This isn't the same thing, but it's just as stupid. Anytime I find a computer with Opera on it, I uninstall it. I have done this a dozen times....

 

[Mictlantecuhtli]

nunjabusiness said:

captain828 said:

seanp789 said:
So if Windows comes without an internet browser, how are you supposed to get on the internet to download a competing internet browser?

Quote of the day!

Actually, you used to be able to use Windows Explorer (the file manager) as a browser. A few years back, I often used it when IE didn't work right (back when I still used XP.)

Does that not work anymore?

I just tested that with my Vista SP2 (IE7 removed with vLite) - it launches Firefox and opens the URL there. So I guess it just opens the default browser.

 

[Guest]

Ok, heres the way to make it work. MS should ships Win 7 with no browser, but have an IE8 installer included on the Win 7 disk. If any other browser manufacturer wants their browser available they should supply MS with an installer disk that can be shipped in the Win 7 box, along with a small handling fee for each disk they supply. Why should MS have to pay their employees to handle a competitors disk. Oh and since this will only be for the EU release MS should also up the price a little bit for this version to take care of the extra costs of creating a version that is only shipped to one part of the world. Oh and maybe release it a year later just to give the EU a chance to evaluate it and see if there any other ways they might possibly be able to sue MS. Or MS could treat this like laptop vendors do, ship all versions of Win 7 with all browsers made, but then all browser manufacturers should pay a subsidy to MS to help lower the cost of Windows. Or the best solution the EU and Opera should just STFU.

 

[complexxL9]

I am EU citizen and I think this is just absurd.

 

[JudaZ]

Im a EU citizen, but I agree...Ms should fight back and not release Windows 7 in the EU until the comission backs off. Whats next? BMW forced to include parts from crysler, just because the cant sell cars and BMW can? ... if FF is better people will user it...if Opera is better more people will use that .. .if you cant compete without crying to you mother...stop competing and go home.

 

[9Nails]

Guest said:
Since we get a lot of junkware pre installed with a new computer anyway, at least there is a chance it may become useful afterall... not!

Considering a possible future scenario, each vendor may be supplying their browser of choice:

e.g.
HP -> Windows 7 + Opera
Sony -> Windows 7 + Firefox
Dell -> Windows 7 + Chrome
Apple -> OSX + Safari (hey, wait a minute... )

No kidding! That's shows just how unfair these regulators are when they ignore what the competition and system builders are doing. Why does the EU harass Microsoft for their bundle and not Apple or any of the other system builders? Microsoft should have a right to design and sell the product that they intended to offer the customer. The EU is taking this to far by forcing their opinion into the matter.

If customers don't know how to install a 3rd party browser on their own, (Next, Next, Finish) then they're not going to understand why they're making a selection between Opera, Firefox, or Internet Explorer in the first place.

I agree with others here. I'd be tickled if MS said piss off, and didn't offer Windows 7 in EU states. Windows 7 (retail software) should ship with all intended features enabled and no 3rd party apps. Let the customers riot and reflect just how far from reality these anti-trust regulators are.

 

[JDoors]

Does the EU suggestion require Windows to include the "choose your browser" dialog box as part of the "first boot" process? Or could it be a part of the computer's BIOS, asking the question before whatever OS you use boots? If so, how will they enforce its inclusion into BIOS's? Will they gripe if "IE" isn't listed randomly enough? Will the suppliers of all other browsers be required to provide MS with the proper protocols (links, art, etc.) to be listed? Or will that be left up to MS? And will the EU be satisfied if MS doesn't meet some unknowable, un-Godly requirement for how this is to be done?

Micromanagement of positively EVERYTHING is ... What can I say? It's stupid, it's a mess, it's expensive, it can't POSSIBLY work the way its intended, it harms the consumer, it harms competition ... Sheesh. Back off, already.