European Commission moves to designate Amazon and Microsoft as cloud gatekeepers

[Bluescreendeath]

To which tax cuts do you refer? I won't say such proposals haven't existed, but Trumps 2018 tax cuts *raised* government revenues.

The tax cuts that are not only not paired with cutting spending, but for some reason paired with spending increases, which then shoots up the annual deficit...resulting in the national debt growing faster than the economy iself.

Simply raising revenue is easy when you combine cutting taxes and increasing spending - this is a double dose of economic stimulus that increases GDP growth (which leads to a bigger GDP being taxed).

However, raising government revenue while also increasing spending will shoot up the annual deficit (so you are spending more in the red despite getting more tax revenues).
That leads into the other big problem when the national debt grows faster than the GDP.
So despite that revenue increase, deficits and national debt still grew under Trump (but he is not alone in this of course).

For example, the annual deficit in:
2017: 665 billion
2018: 779 billion
2019: 984 billion
(not counting 2020 since COVID is hard to factor in)

Revenue:
2017: 3.32 trillion
2018: 3.33 trillion
2019: 3.46 trillion

From 2017 to 2019, our revenue went up by 140 billion, but our annual deficit went up by 314 billion. So despite that increased revenue, our deficit still went up because of significantly increased spending under Trump 1.

What is worse is our GDP grew slower than our national debt:

2017 GDP: 19.49 trillion
2018 GDP: 20.49 trillion
2019 GDP: 21.35 trillion

2017 National debt: 20.24 trillion
2018 National debt: 21.5 trillion
2019 National debt: 22.7 trillion

So our annual GDP/economy only grew by 1.86 trillion, while our national debt grew by 2.46 trillion.

That means all that tax cuts + spending increases wasn't actually worth it if our debt grows faster than our GDP.

As economics' Laffer Curve teaches us, there comes a point in taxation in which further increases reduce collected revenue, and the US was already well past that point.

I agree that there is a point where too much taxes actually reduces revenue. However, it is debatable whether we ever reached that point, because during the Obama's second term (who had a mix of tax cuts for the middle class and tax increases for the upper class and maybe slightly higher taxes overall), the country still had GDP growth and the growth was better than Trump 1 in terms of growing the GDP to debt ratio.

Eg. National debt 2013 = 16.7 trillion debt,
2014 = 17.8 trillion,
2015 = 18.1 trillion

GDP in 2013 = 16.8 trillion,
2014 = 17.6 trillion,
2015 = 18.2 trillion

Under Obama 2 from 2013 to 2015, debt increased by 1.4 trillion while GDP increased by 1.4 trillion (around the same, or 1:1 ratio).

So Obama's slightly higher taxes (for the upper class) results in 1 to 1 ratio of debt to GDP growth, while Trump's tax cuts + spending increases resulted in a worse 1 to 0.76 ratio debt to GDP growth.

But let's assume we were actually at the point where any tax increases would reduce revenue - there was absolutely no reason to have spending increases alongside tax cuts. They could've just had tax cuts by themselves, and it wouldn't have been nearly as bad for our deficits and debt.

What is the point of increased revenue from tax cuts if we still piss it all away in reckless spending that spikes up our annual deficit and even increase our national debt faster the speed our economy is growing?


Lastly, these types of tax cut stimulus and spending stimulus are both what, a part of Keynesian economics? IIRC, that economics school also said you generally do this tax cut + spending boost combo during a recession to fight the recession (which then increases the national debt), and then when there is an economic boom, you need to raise taxes and cut spending so you can finally pay off that national debt that you've accumulated. So they're ignoring the other half of the policy where you are actually supposed to use austerity to pay off the debt you accumulated from tax cuts + spending stimulus.

 

[Puiu]

Still lying? Trump's tax cuts raised government revenues, this is simple fact:

US TAX REVENUES BY YEAR:
FY 2016: $3.27 trillion
FY 2017: $3.32 trillion
FY 2018: $3.33 trillion
FY 2019: $$3.46 trillion

As for the absurd lie that the Trump tax cuts "only benefitted the rich":

"...An analysis of IRS tax data, shows that filers with an adjusted gross income (AGI) of $15,000 to $50,000 enjoyed an average tax cut of 16 percent to 26 percent...Filers who earned $50,000 to $100,000 received a tax break of about 15 percent to 17 percent, and those earning $100,000 to $500,000 in adjusted gross income saw their personal income taxes cut by around 11 percent to 13 percent.

By comparison, no income group with an AGI of at least $500,000 received an average tax cut exceeding 9 percent, and the average tax cut for brackets starting at $1 million was less than 6 percent....

Ouch, you got caught lying and refusing to add context to the numbers again. Add that with your fervent defense of rich people even in other posts and you end up embarrassing yourself.

Thank you @Bluescreendeath for the nice rundown.

"As for the absurd lie that the Trump tax cuts "only benefitted the rich"" - it's a fact. and your 15-17% "tax break" does not take into account the corporate benefits and other changes for the rich at all.

"The TCJA’s changes mostly affected the corporate and individual income taxes (Figure 2). The act reduced the top corporate tax rate from 35% to 21%—a 40% reduction. Actual corporate income tax revenue in FY2018 was $135 billion lower than CBO’s projection from 2017—almost exactly a 40% decline."

Did the 2017 tax cut—the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act—pay for itself? | Brookings

William Gale disproves a popular mischaracterization of the 2017 Tax Cuts and Jobs Act.

www.brookings.edu

And here's the real beneficiaries of the tax changes made by trump:

Extensions of the New Tax Law’s Temporary Provisions Would Mainly Benefit the Wealthy

This analysis finds that extending the temporary tax provisions in 2026 would not be aimed at helping the middle-class any more than TCJA as enacted helps the middle-class in 2018.

itep.org

The 2017 bill that drastically shifts the benefits over time. To comply with Senate budget rules, GOP wrote the law so that virtually all individual income tax cuts expire at the end of 2025, while the corporate tax cuts remain permanent.

TL;DR The top 5% saw their after-tax income grow by roughly double the rate of middle-class families.

Here's who you are defending:

 

[Endymio]

Ouch, you got caught lying and refusing to add context to the numbers again.

Why act the fool on the Internet? You claimed Trump's tax cuts reduced government revenues; I showed the actual data proving this false. Your own link admits that government tax revenues rose after the tax cuts, but tries to discount that with the claim that "they would have been even higher", had Trump not reduced them.

You also lied by terming it "a tax cut for the rich", which I also disproved by showing by far the largest tax savings went to middle income earners. Seriously, are you being paid to advance the conservative movement by posing as a feckless liberal on web forums?

 

[Endymio]

And here's the real beneficiaries of the tax changes made by trump:

Oops! From the actual 2025 IRS data, following making the Trump Tax Cuts permanent:

Data from this most recent filing season shows millions of American families and workers claimed expanded tax deductions and credits tied directly to wages, children, overtime, tips, and earned income.

The data further shows tax relief was concentrated among American families and workers earning under $200,000.

96% of filers receiving a tax cut earned less than $200,000.

• Filers earning between $100,000 to $200,000, who claimed one of President Trump’s signature tax cuts, received an average tax cut of over $1,250.

Nearly 70% of filers receiving a tax cut earned less than $100,000.

• Filers earning between $50,000 to $100,000, who claimed one of President Trump’s signature tax cuts, received an average tax cut that is over $815.

No Tax on Tips: Over 7.5 million filers have claimed No Tax on Tips, with an average deduction of over $7,000.

• 90% of filers claiming the No Tax on Tips deduction had income under $100,000.
• 99% of filers claiming the No Tax on Tips deduction had income under $200,000.

No Tax on Overtime: Over 29 million filers have claimed No Tax on Overtime, with an average deduction of over $3,100.

• 75% of filers claiming the No Tax on Overtime deduction had income under $100,000.
• 96% of filers claiming the No Tax on Overtime deduction had income under $200,000.

Enhanced Senior Deduction: Over 35 million seniors have claimed the Enhanced Deduction for Seniors, with an average deduction of over $7,500.

• 68% of filers claiming the Enhanced Senior Deduction had income under $100,000.
• 94% of filers claiming the Enhanced Senior Deduction had income under $200,000.

No Tax on Car Loan Interest: Over 1.4 million filers have claimed No Tax on Car Loan Interest on their new American vehicles, with an average deduction of over $1,800.

• 62% of filers claiming the No Tax on Car Loan Interest deduction had income under $100,000.
• 98% of filers claiming the No Tax on Car Loan Interest deduction had income under $200,000.

Trump Accounts: Over 5.5 million Trump Accounts have been opened, with 1.4 million eligible for the $1,000 pilot program contribution.

• 65% of all families claiming the credit had income under $100,000.
• 89% of all families claiming the credit had income under $200,000.

Doubled Standard Deduction: Over 127 million filers (90% of all tax filers) have claimed the permanently doubled standard deduction, simplifying tax filing for millions across America.

 

[Puiu]

Why act the fool on the Internet? You claimed Trump's tax cuts reduced government revenues; I showed the actual data proving this false. Your own link admits that government tax revenues rose after the tax cuts, but tries to discount that with the claim that "they would have been even higher", had Trump not reduced them.

You also lied by terming it "a tax cut for the rich", which I also disproved by showing by far the largest tax savings went to middle income earners. Seriously, are you being paid to advance the conservative movement by posing as a feckless liberal on web forums?

You showed absolutely nothing. As per usual context to you is something to be ignored.

"You claimed Trump's tax cuts reduced government revenues" - Yes, this did happen, by a huge sum of money. The sums the government should have gotten where slashed by the tax cuts. What you fail to understand is that the numbers you showed us should have been much bigger. How is it that you cannot understand something this simple? The original tax cuts from his first term were projected to add over 2 trillion to the debt by 2028 and this happened.

"You also lied by terming it "a tax cut for the rich", which I also disproved by showing by far the largest tax savings went to middle income earners." - You disproved absolutely nothing. You only looked at individual taxes and refused to talk about the taxes that actually affect the rich, the corporate taxes and everything surrounding that. Trump literally gave himself and his businesses huge tax cuts that YOU are paying for and it's why the national debt has ballooned so much. This is why you are simply a liar. You take something, remove the context and all surrounding information and then pretend that it makes sense in the current discussion thinking that people are too lazy to fact check you.

Do you want to know the funny part? Trump banned the IRS from from auditing or prosecuting him and his pedo friends for past tax returns fraud. The obvious corruption in your face that you love so much. It's how it should be in your mind, right?

 

[Puiu]

Oops! From the actual 2025 IRS data, following making the Trump Tax Cuts permanent:

Data from this most recent filing season shows millions of American families and workers claimed expanded tax deductions and credits tied directly to wages, children, overtime, tips, and earned income.

The data further shows tax relief was concentrated among American families and workers earning under $200,000.

96% of filers receiving a tax cut earned less than $200,000.

• Filers earning between $100,000 to $200,000, who claimed one of President Trump’s signature tax cuts, received an average tax cut of over $1,250.

Nearly 70% of filers receiving a tax cut earned less than $100,000.

• Filers earning between $50,000 to $100,000, who claimed one of President Trump’s signature tax cuts, received an average tax cut that is over $815.

No Tax on Tips: Over 7.5 million filers have claimed No Tax on Tips, with an average deduction of over $7,000.

• 90% of filers claiming the No Tax on Tips deduction had income under $100,000.
• 99% of filers claiming the No Tax on Tips deduction had income under $200,000.

No Tax on Overtime: Over 29 million filers have claimed No Tax on Overtime, with an average deduction of over $3,100.

• 75% of filers claiming the No Tax on Overtime deduction had income under $100,000.
• 96% of filers claiming the No Tax on Overtime deduction had income under $200,000.

Enhanced Senior Deduction: Over 35 million seniors have claimed the Enhanced Deduction for Seniors, with an average deduction of over $7,500.

• 68% of filers claiming the Enhanced Senior Deduction had income under $100,000.
• 94% of filers claiming the Enhanced Senior Deduction had income under $200,000.

No Tax on Car Loan Interest: Over 1.4 million filers have claimed No Tax on Car Loan Interest on their new American vehicles, with an average deduction of over $1,800.

• 62% of filers claiming the No Tax on Car Loan Interest deduction had income under $100,000.
• 98% of filers claiming the No Tax on Car Loan Interest deduction had income under $200,000.

Trump Accounts: Over 5.5 million Trump Accounts have been opened, with 1.4 million eligible for the $1,000 pilot program contribution.

• 65% of all families claiming the credit had income under $100,000.
• 89% of all families claiming the credit had income under $200,000.

Doubled Standard Deduction: Over 127 million filers (90% of all tax filers) have claimed the permanently doubled standard deduction, simplifying tax filing for millions across America.

And your point is? That people received tax reductions? Yes, that's obvious, but that absolutely isn't what we were discussing about. It's about how the rich benefited more and the data doesn't lie.

"96% of filers receiving a tax cut earned less than $200,000. " - well DUH. do you even understand how this works? obviously not. If 95% of the population sits in the "under 200k" category, how much of that do you think would show in the tax "filers" percentages?

"Over 5.5 million Trump Accounts have been opened, with 1.4 million eligible for the $1,000 pilot program contribution." - This is just sad. Taking credit for what is actually a reduction in income. After the GOP refused to extend the 3000$ (and $3,600 for kids under age 6) Child Tax Credit in 2021, trump set it to 2200$ in 2025, and put 1000$ in a fund that nobody can touch till the child is 17. This is also a huge reduction from what Kamala was proposing. After loosing money for several years because of the GOP now you are happy that they are giving back some of it? Every single GOP member voted against extending the Child Tax Credit (both times in 2021 and again in 2024). Pathetic.

In 2024 Sen. Thom Tillis, a Republican from North Carolina, handed out pamphlets to Republican colleagues suggesting that voting in favor of the bill would “give Harris a win before the election.” - yes dude, these are the pedo clowns you support.

 

[mjuice7]

This is a new low for the already sewer-dwelling EU regulators. A "gatekeeper" designation implies that, if you want cloud services, you must procure them from Amazon or Microsoft. But of course there are many hundreds, even thousands of smaller cloud providers that also provide these services and customers could easily choose them-- if they actually wanted to.

the AI image king (& special little red hat wearer) has spoken! are you able to upload some of those AU images you're so fond of? maybe some images of those pesky Europeans ramming the ramparts? still waiting for the image of the antifa mask you claim exist.