Ford employees want company to stop making police vehicles, CEO refuses

TomSEA

Posts: 3,268   +1,914
Police are public servants.

If they were doing their job instead of acting as state sanctioned killers, the public wouldn't be raising hell against them.

They EARNED this.
Sanctioned killers, eh? You mean like the 2,600 black-on-black murders that happened in 2016 that BLM conveniently ignores? And that's just murders. The black-on-black shooting and violent crime numbers are astronomical compared to other ethnic groups. Where's that conversation?
 

Rayneofpayne

Posts: 223   +219
While I may not agree that Ford should stop making vehicles for the police I much more strongly disagree with many of the things being said in this thread... the main ones being:

and:

I tend to stay away from posting my opinions on these types of topics while on my favorite tech forum but there is a lot of ignorance and a huge lack of empathy and self reflection happening on this one in particular. BLM is about the differences in how blacks are looked at, regarded, and treated by the police. It is not equal and NEVER has been. Black folks in the US have been fighting for equality since before I was born. These arguments are the same now as they were back then. You can't live in your bubble of privilege where everything is great and smells rosy and then say "You can smell the same things too if you try hard enough". The reasons you see things the way you do is because of the imbalances that have existed for many, many years. If you could just take a few minutes and watch/listen to the following videos I hope it might help you understand some of these issues.




And if you're willing to read just one article

https://www.history.com/news/red-summer-1919-riots-chicago-dc-great-migration - keep in mind that this is 100 years ago during the Spanish Flu epidemic

There is a lot more you should take the time to review before deciding you know how it is for everyone. There is only so much you tell yourself to make yourself feel better about your current mindset or what you've been taught.
"If your top priority is understanding racism better, or addressing an incident involving race, or righting a wrong caused by racism, don’t let the top priority suddenly become avenging your wounded pride if the conversation has you feeling defensive. When you start to feel defensive, stop and ask yourself why." - Ijeoma Oluo
People have never lived as good as now. People are fighting for the wrong reasons, stop trying to boil it down to skin color. There are various other reasons for inequality and they don't boil down to racism or sexism. Are there instances of people having issues, Yes. Is it the rule or standard, No. Stop pretending it is. Be accountable.
 

USAvenger

Posts: 118   +162
People have never lived as good as now. People are fighting for the wrong reasons, stop trying to boil it down to skin color. There are various other reasons for inequality and they don't boil down to racism or sexism. Are there instances of people having issues, Yes. Is it the rule or standard, No. Stop pretending it is. Be accountable.
How dare you advocate for personal responsibility or accountability, you racist! /s
 

Lew Zealand

Posts: 1,559   +1,558
TechSpot Elite
People have never lived as good as now. People are fighting for the wrong reasons, stop trying to boil it down to skin color. There are various other reasons for inequality and they don't boil down to racism or sexism. Are there instances of people having issues, Yes. Is it the rule or standard, No. Stop pretending it is. Be accountable.
The point is not that racism/sexism is the sole cause of inequality. It is one of them. And people want to find ways of reducing that.

Just because there are also many other reasons for inequality doesn't mean that we shouldn't concentrate on the inequality brought about by racism (or sexism).
 

wiyosaya

Posts: 5,363   +3,444
People have never lived as good as now. People are fighting for the wrong reasons, stop trying to boil it down to skin color. There are various other reasons for inequality and they don't boil down to racism or sexism. Are there instances of people having issues, Yes. Is it the rule or standard, No. Stop pretending it is. Be accountable.
:facepalm: When Floyd said 20 times he could not breath, the cops simply said, in essence, "STFU or you will kill yourself faster." This gleaned from the cop's body camera footage. So, are you telling us that you see nothing wrong with that and the cops should not be held accountable?

Unlike what you seem to have said, accountability is not a one-sided issue.
 
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Rayneofpayne

Posts: 223   +219
As a worker in the US Auto industry, I can definitely say that Trump's trade war has hurt the industry in the US.
Of course it has because of globalism and the automotive Industry moving all manufacturing to third world nation's for cheap labor, we are talking about the same industry that charges $1-5k for a cheap audio system and $500 for a 2 pot caliper and likes to drop warranties based on superior parts being subbed out for OEM low cost crap. Let's not be delusional here the entire automotive industry has been proped up for way to long and should have went into the gutter long ago. There is a reason why Detroit went from #1 richest city in the world to a dump, mismanagement and greed.
 
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Lew Zealand

Posts: 1,559   +1,558
TechSpot Elite
Sanctioned killers, eh? You mean like the 2,600 black-on-black murders that happened in 2016 that BLM conveniently ignores? And that's just murders. The black-on-black shooting and violent crime numbers are astronomical compared to other ethnic groups. Where's that conversation?
That conversation is going on somewhere else. But not here because you're going off topic.

Why not talk about domestic terrorism committed by white people? Because that also would be going off topic.
 

wiyosaya

Posts: 5,363   +3,444
Of course it has because of globalism and the automotive Industry moving all manufacturing to third world nation's for cheap labor, we are talking about the same industry that charges $1-5k for a cheap audio system and $500 for a 2 pot caliper and likes to drop warranties based on superior parts being subbed out for OEM low cost crap. Let's not be delusional here the entire automotive industry has been proped up for way to long and should have went into the gutter long ago. There is a reason why Detroit went from #1 richest city in the world to a dump, mismanagement and greed.
Oh? An expert, I see. Well, guess where the majority of the equipment that we manufacture is made? If you said anything about countries other than the US, you lost your daily double.

News flash - Fox News is not reputable.

And, if you had not heard, Trump's trade war has caused US manufacturers to move more manufacturing - you guess it - Overseas!
 

Rayneofpayne

Posts: 223   +219
The point is not that racism/sexism is the sole cause of inequality. It is one of them. And people want to find ways of reducing that.

Just because there are also many other reasons for inequality doesn't mean that we shouldn't concentrate on the inequality brought about by racism (or sexism).
Show me statistical data, not conjecture. Then I will entertain it and not cherry picked data supporting either side but the whole picture.

Racism exists because people psychologically seperate themselves from the overall group, it's called tribalism, ultimately you are an individual where you are x, y, z, doesn't matter, it may have at one point in history. People solely defining themselves based on those characteristics are prone to their own stupidity.
Also I will make this clear,
You don't fight sexism or racism by being either one of them. The only part that exists of the equation are those separating themselves by these qualities.
People are full of their own crap, they all have opinions and pawn it as fact, which it isn't.
Live in Africa for a while, you may find your attitude changing and how an African sees Americans that have African decent. It's enlightening.
 

Lew Zealand

Posts: 1,559   +1,558
TechSpot Elite
Show me statistical data, not conjecture. Then I will entertain it and not cherry picked data supporting either side but the whole picture.

Racism exists because people psychologically seperate themselves from the overall group, it's called tribalism, ultimately you are an individual where you are x, y, z, doesn't matter, it may have at one point in history. People solely defining themselves based on those characteristics are prone to their own stupidity.
Also I will make this clear,
You don't fight sexism or racism by being either one of them. The only part that exists of the equation are those separating themselves by these qualities.
People are full of their own crap, they all have opinions and pawn it as fact, which it isn't.
Live in Africa for a while, you may find your attitude changing and how an African sees Americans that have African decent. It's enlightening.
Lol, statistical data on what? I said that racism/sexism is one of many things contributing to inequality. Are you saying that racism/sexism doesn't contribute to inequality? And are there any statistics that argue that point?
 

wiyosaya

Posts: 5,363   +3,444
Show me statistical data, not conjecture. Then I will entertain it and not cherry picked data supporting either side but the whole picture.

Racism exists because people psychologically seperate themselves from the overall group, it's called tribalism, ultimately you are an individual where you are x, y, z, doesn't matter, it may have at one point in history.
Studied that in college did you? Or is it conjecture?
People solely defining themselves based on those characteristics are prone to their own stupidity.
And the immunity to that is not based on skin color.
Also I will make this clear,
You don't fight sexism or racism by being either one of them. The only part that exists of the equation are those separating themselves by these qualities.
People are full of their own crap, they all have opinions and pawn it as fact, which it isn't.
Thanks for the example.
Live in Africa for a while, you may find your attitude changing and how an African sees Americans that have African decent. It's enlightening.
Even more whataboutism.
 

USAvenger

Posts: 118   +162
Lol, statistical data on what? I said that racism/sexism is one of many things contributing to inequality. Are you saying that racism/sexism doesn't contribute to inequality? And are there any statistics that argue that point?
They're asking for data to back up your assertions. Seeing as how you answered their question with a question tells me everything that I need to know. "Feelings over facts" is a leftist hallmark.

Studied that in college did you? Or is it conjecture?

And the immunity to that is not based on skin color.

Thanks for the example.
Even more whataboutism.
Sorry, your "right-wing whataboutism" card does not trump the "left-wing hypocrisy" card. Play another card instead.
 

cliffordcooley

Posts: 12,473   +5,851
Black folks in the US have been fighting for equality since before I was born.
I wouldn't go so far as to say that. Those who have fought are the ones that are seen as equals. It's the trash that give this movement a bad name. And it is the negative that will be remembered as BLM.

Furthermore you can't have a movement for one race without isolating yourself from the other races. This movement is causing an adverse effect on the concept of its inception. And it will continue to have an adverse effect until the color word is removed.
 

Evernessince

Posts: 5,335   +5,799
BLM is racism
Yes, how dare black people assert their lives matter!

Can't have that, we have to remind them how much white lives matter!

/sarcasm

As if white or blue lives mattering was even in question.

People in America seem to be ignorant to the fact that racism didn't stop with the end of the Jim Crow laws, it survived and evolved very well into the modern day. This thread is an excellent example of it.
 

Lionvibez

Posts: 1,978   +1,266
The type of responses in this thread and the lack of understanding because many of you have never walked in those shoes is part of the problem here.

As for Ford not dropping them that was a given. The amount of people that asking for this at ford will not off set the hundred of millions they make selling them to law enforcement world wide.

If the CEO approved that he would be ending his career. The Shareholders will most likely not care about BLM just profit and he would have to explain that loss of revenue.

Large corporations that are publicly traded # 1 duty is to profit.
 

candle_86

Posts: 514   +382
While I may not agree that Ford should stop making vehicles for the police I much more strongly disagree with many of the things being said in this thread... the main ones being:

and:

I tend to stay away from posting my opinions on these types of topics while on my favorite tech forum but there is a lot of ignorance and a huge lack of empathy and self reflection happening on this one in particular. BLM is about the differences in how blacks are looked at, regarded, and treated by the police. It is not equal and NEVER has been. Black folks in the US have been fighting for equality since before I was born. These arguments are the same now as they were back then. You can't live in your bubble of privilege where everything is great and smells rosy and then say "You can smell the same things too if you try hard enough". The reasons you see things the way you do is because of the imbalances that have existed for many, many years. If you could just take a few minutes and watch/listen to the following videos I hope it might help you understand some of these issues.




And if you're willing to read just one article

https://www.history.com/news/red-summer-1919-riots-chicago-dc-great-migration - keep in mind that this is 100 years ago during the Spanish Flu epidemic

There is a lot more you should take the time to review before deciding you know how it is for everyone. There is only so much you tell yourself to make yourself feel better about your current mindset or what you've been taught.
"If your top priority is understanding racism better, or addressing an incident involving race, or righting a wrong caused by racism, don’t let the top priority suddenly become avenging your wounded pride if the conversation has you feeling defensive. When you start to feel defensive, stop and ask yourself why." - Ijeoma Oluo
Except the leader of blm has stated plainly their hatred of white people and training as a Marxist agitator. Try again.
 

psycros

Posts: 3,187   +3,373
:facepalm: When Floyd said 20 times he could not breath, the cops simply said, in essence, "STFU or you will kill yourself faster." This gleaned from the cop's body camera footage. So, are you telling us that you see nothing wrong with that and the cops should not be held accountable?

Unlike what you seem to have said, accountability is not a one-sided issue.
He was saying "I can't breathe" long before they took him to the ground. He resisted arrest for six minutes and unfortunately one of the cops on the scene had a personal grudge against Floyd. All this black ex-con who was caught passing bad checks needed to do was comply and he'd still be alive. That's the hard but inarguable reality. Chauvin is almost certainly guilty of excessive force leading to a death, but Floyd created the situation.