Thatsdisgusting
Posts: 314 +405
So what's next? - 5070 being the lowest in stack at the same price range, 100mm2 chips in 5080 or entire lineup starting from 1000$?
GeForce RTX 4060 Ti vs. RTX 3060 Ti: 40 Game Benchmark
- Thread starter Steve
- Start date
So what's next? - 5070 being the lowest in stack at the same price range, 100mm2 chips in 5080 or entire lineup starting from 1000$?
Lowhangingfruit
Posts: 48 +109
The problem is not the 4060 being overpriced, the problem is that the 3060 is still selling for way too much.
The 3060 Ti had an original MSRP of $400 and is now on average only about 20% less. That's unheard of in hardware. Even BMWs don't hold on to their value that well.
nvidia is not going to sell their latest and greatest for cheaper than the previous generation. The 4xxx will always be pegged at 10% more than the 3xxx.
The 3060 Ti had an original MSRP of $400 and is now on average only about 20% less. That's unheard of in hardware. Even BMWs don't hold on to their value that well.
nvidia is not going to sell their latest and greatest for cheaper than the previous generation. The 4xxx will always be pegged at 10% more than the 3xxx.
Mr Majestyk
Posts: 2,420 +2,251
How did we get here. Simple, Nvidia decided they could get away with branding a 4050 class product as 4060 with price to match. AMD did the same in trying to sell us a 7500XT as a 7600. Call it a 4050 Ti and price it at $259 and it's a good buy.
This is what the line-up should be:
4050 AD107 128bit 8GB $199
4050 Ti full AD107 128 bit 8GB $249
4060 AD106 160 bit 10GB $299
4060 Ti full AD106 192 bit 12GB $399
4070 AD104 192 bit 12GB $499
4070 Ti full AD104 256 bit 16GB $599
4080 AD103 256 bit 16GB $749
4080 Ti full AD104 320 bit 20GB $899
This is what the line-up should be:
4050 AD107 128bit 8GB $199
4050 Ti full AD107 128 bit 8GB $249
4060 AD106 160 bit 10GB $299
4060 Ti full AD106 192 bit 12GB $399
4070 AD104 192 bit 12GB $499
4070 Ti full AD104 256 bit 16GB $599
4080 AD103 256 bit 16GB $749
4080 Ti full AD104 320 bit 20GB $899
Not even that - its a 4050 at twice it's reasonable price. nVidia don't care at the moment because they would rather use all their fab space to rinse big business for AI chips.
It's clear that in this generation, every class is being in overweight: every one of these should be in lower class at the right price, the 4060ti is in fact the 4050ti, the 4070ti the 4060ti and so on.
The performance of the 4060ti is not a lot better than the 3060ti (5-10%) but the power consumption is a lot less. As for the price, probably tsmc's pricing of the 5nm node has some influence. Maybe the product would have been a bit better if there was only a 12GB on a 192bit bus instead of the 8/16GB on 128bit. cache misses are a lot more frequent on the 32MB buffer than on the 48MB of the 4070ti making it less efficient in hiding the narrow bus.
The 4060 Ti has far fewer SMs performing demands of the cache than the 4070 Ti though, so the lower amount isn't as problematic as it may seem -- the latter also has a higher SM:cache ratio (1.25:1) than the 4060 Ti (1:06:1).
Can you please show the benchmark differences when you enable Frame Generation for the 4060ti in the games that support it? I guarantee it will be 200-300% better in performance, not 8%. I really hate it when websites compare two products, and then say that the newer one isn't worth the money, but they never actually use the product the way it was meant to be used.
Though the energy consumption is very important, the performance increase is just lackluster. Purely economical, the price increase just doesn't justify the somewhat lower energy costs.
Frame generation isn't a performance increase, it is a cheat to simulate a performance increase.
The goal here is the real framerate without cheats. If the 4060ti does 5% better but 100% cheating, it is just a card that improves cheating.
The frame generation you are talking about adds latency. A lot of latency. I would rather play at half the frames than have noticeable latency.
Also claiming that fake frames give 200-300% better performance is just stupid.
That's where Reflex comes in, turn that on on+boost and you're fine. I'm also not talking about competitive games, but rather games like D4 or Cyberpunk or Witcher 3 or the like. Frame Generation is an effing godsend for me since I hate absolutely everything about competitive multiplayer in any type of game, but I can see where you are coming from. The good news is, most competitive FPS's have really low system requirements, so even a toaster can run it at like 80fps, so it really is a non-issue for those as you wouldn't turn it on as DLSS2 would be enough.
Also, going from my old 3070 to the 4070 I went from 45fps to 103fps; that's between 200% and 300% boost.
Also, calling it fake frames is hilarious. You obviously have no clue.
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Mr Majestyk
Posts: 2,420 +2,251
The 4060 8GB class cards don't really have the memory to do DLSS3 or RT, despite Nvidia hyping that tech. The 16GB card will be better but price is insane and thrid party cards are $550 or only $50 less than the massively faster 4070.
gigantor21
Posts: 399 +804
Tech reporters have had a field day with Ada's crap value, and I'm all for it.
Everything is related, if you have a card that would be a 4050 8 GB RAM and call + price it 4060, then what would be a great 4050, becomes a bad 4060. There is also the question how much RAM or RAM bus/ controllers:
- nowadays 8 GB RAM is the bare minimum, which I would expect on a 4030 or 4050(ti) card
- if you buy a mid-to-low-class card for a mid-to-high class price with a low amount of controllers AND already too limited bus and amount of RAM, then it's a lousy cocktail
As I said before, the 4070(ti) should have been the 4060(ti) and so on. But as lower as you get on the card chain, the worse the restrictions work on the real world. People are better off buying the 3000 series.
example in my country:
- 4060ti 12 GB starting at 457€
- 4070ti 12 GB (?!?) starting at 800€
- 4080 16 GB starting at 1321€
- 4090 24 GB starting at 1728€ ...
That's why I would buy a 4070ti for the 4060ti's price, but nowhere like this, crazy prices...
Indeed, per the graphs the 4060 is 15% faster at 1080 and 14% faster at 1440.
I find it funny that people are so fixated on names. I'd like to see a chart, no GPU names, just an FPS and price point. In other words, if I am shooting for a solid 60 FPS across most games, how much do I need to spend. If I want 120 FPS, how much more is that and so on. What if I turn RT on? Frame Gen? Etc.
They both seem like a waste of money compared to a $180 used GTX 1080Ti. And that raytracing fluff looks so fake I never use it with my 3080Ti or 7900XT at all.
Pensiveclown
Posts: 59 +51
I don't even care that it's barely faster. I care that in a few years it won't run anything new because they didn't upgrade to 12gb vram. Probably going to build a pc soon and im definitely going for the 6700xt. Basically as fast as the 4060 ti right now, but way better in the long run and also like 70-80 dollars cheaper
saddest part was that the 3060ti was probably my favorite card and then they sell this
you know the card is bad when the last generation had people camping outside of stores and now they can barely sell any at all
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