Lionhead: second-hand console games more costly than PC piracy

By Emil · 57 replies
May 18, 2011
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  1. Game developer Lionhead has declared that second-hand sales of video games for the Xbox 360 are a bigger problem for the company than pirated video games on the PC. In…

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  2. matrix86

    matrix86 TS Guru Posts: 843   +38

    This is something people have been saying for a while now. Nice to have actual results proving it :p
  3. princeton

    princeton TS Addict Posts: 1,676

    Article won't load for me. Rest of em will. This is weird.

    Also it's pretty obvious that piracy is not the reason why groups don't develop PC centric games. It's money. The only person who still believes that is TomSEA and frankly I think he has family who works for the RIAA, MPAA ect.
  4. dividebyzero

    dividebyzero trainee n00b Posts: 4,891   +1,264

  5. matrix86

    matrix86 TS Guru Posts: 843   +38

    Not loading for me either. Worked fine earlier, but not anymore.
  6. gwailo247

    gwailo247 TechSpot Chancellor Posts: 2,010   +18

    I don't believe any of this. There will be enough people playing PC games for the foreseeable future that there will always be a market. Even if it is only 10 million people, you can still make games attractive enough that people will buy them. This is too big of an economic niche just to ignore. Even if its something like Minecraft, if more big houses switch away from making PC games, then the money will just go to people who will make them. It might not be millions in profit per game, but someone will always fill the vacuum.
  7. mailpup

    mailpup TS Special Forces Posts: 7,188   +470

    So there is a secondary market for used games. So what? Why should buying and selling used games be any different from paintings, sculpture, music CDs, DVDs, used cars, boats, houses, furniture, books, computers, etc.? Why are games so special?
  8. yRaz

    yRaz Nigerian Prince Posts: 2,340   +1,438

    because you agreed to terms of service
  9. veLa

    veLa TS Evangelist Posts: 782   +235

    Well said.

    As for piracy. It's not stealing, it's sharing. For example, if a user pirates a new game rather than buying it, they probably don't have the money to buy it in the first place. Besides, this way they get a test run of the game instead of dropping up to $60 on a hunk of junk.
  10. mailpup

    mailpup TS Special Forces Posts: 7,188   +470

    @yRaz Well, not me personally as I don't own any console games but I understand what you are saying about the EULA. It just galls me the way game publishers feel the need to control/eliminate the secondary market (through the EULA or any other means).
  11. NeoFryBoy

    NeoFryBoy TS Rookie Posts: 72

    They're just trying to get paid for a product they made. The "secondary market" destroys every chance they have of making money from that item.
  12. wizardB

    wizardB TS Booster Posts: 121   +23

    Eulas have never been tested in court by any software company because they know they would get their asses handed to them by any semi competent lawyer
  13. captaincranky

    captaincranky TechSpot Addict Posts: 13,036   +2,558

    In other news, Ford Motor Corporation just announced they were declaring bankruptcy due to sales of second hand Ford vehicles.
  14. I have a better solution, make the stupid games cheaper to begin with. What cost would you lose with a cheaper new product price vs the cost of having people buying and selling used games if it's such a big deal to these guys. They always just want more money.
  15. Darkshadoe

    Darkshadoe TS Guru Posts: 571   +113

    Exactly the example I was gonna use.
  16. Archean

    Archean TechSpot Paladin Posts: 5,690   +96

    Pretty close call wizard, but I do agree to one important factor, courts in many countries don't give a damn to any 'fine print' conditions/terms (and EULA is sort of similar in this way); so there is every chance they will loose in the court of law. The major issue is, Govt. around the world instead of 'protecting' their citizens, are saviors of corporations and their interests, otherwise these entities won't be able to harass people like this; now, this is a pretty sad reflection of times we live in.
  17. Darkshadoe

    Darkshadoe TS Guru Posts: 571   +113

    If an Xbox game is being sold, traded, etc to a store like Gamestop, It already was paid for once (unless it was shoplifted, but that is another story). The developer was already paid for that individual game already. If you sell your house to person X and they turn around and sell that same house to person Y, are you entitled to some of that money? This is the same exact thing. Game devs.have the same sense of entitlement as people who pirate their games... they want something for nothing. Dev's excuses like "we just want paid for our work" is just as sad and lame as the pirate's excuses for piracy.
  18. BlueDrake

    BlueDrake TS Evangelist Posts: 378   +112

    @yRaz Where is there a ToS or EULA saying you have to keep that copy? Sure it's in the manuals and such, but are stores like EB Games, Gamestop, etc going to stop refunding? Not anytime soon, and companies won't bother making deals with the stores either.

    If you buy a new game, play it for a while and want to return it. Name how many stores accept "electronic goods" like games return, after they have been opened and played period. These "second hand" stores are there for this reason, and if the companies want to get up in arms about it then talk to the stores.

    Don't just slap the customers with stupid limits, being we won't care and will find a way to sell the game. Unless say it came with some exclusive DLC or something, that was limited to one time use you've got little to stand on guys. If they added more reasons to games, or not made them so high priced it'd actually be worthwhile.

    You expect people with wishes to buy a game, slap down $50-60 on a game to suddenly hate it and not get a refund? That would be like testing a car or truck for a short time, feel it's not for you and want to return it or trade-in? "Sorry we're not allowing that now, because the companies don't get a profit."

    Many wonder why pirates are so common, things are not always worth the money for most consumers. You slap down a fair chunk of money on a game, then suddenly feel it's not worth it but you don't get a full refund anyways. Who's really ripped off in the end? Go get a game at Walmart or somewhere, play it for a while and take it to Gamestop or EB Games. See how much of a "refund" or "trade-in" you get for it.
  19. JayT1806

    JayT1806 TS Rookie

    Reselling games is our right as a consumer. Game developers have no right to prevent this. Im not buying something that can only be used once. I am buying software with a CD-KeY, and that key is property that I own and I have the right to sell that key to another person if he or she wishes to buy it.

    If you want to boost your sales, make a good game and people will buy it new.
  20. So if I buy a game and then decide it sucks and don't want it, tough luck for me?
  21. ET3D

    ET3D TechSpot Paladin Posts: 1,384   +172

    Used games are good for the game makers for two reasons:

    First of all they introduce games of these developers to people who otherwise might not have bought them due to price (since they can buy the used game cheaper). If these people like the game, they might then buy the sequel at full price when it's released.

    Secondly the person who sells the game to the store gets money which most likely goes into buying other games. This allows the seller of the used game to buy more games than he'd otherwise buy.
  22. The fact is, they're greedy bastards, and they just wanna make more money any way they can. Just listen to the whining. To them it's "losing money" for some reason. But it's not their money to begin with. I'm really, really sick of hearing about these companies crying like babies over losing things they never had. And comparing the resale of games to piracy... really? If they wanna make more money, then they should make better games!

    I can easily envision a future where consoles work more like steam, in which case they will make a lot more money. I'm not at all saying I want this to happen, but this is probably where we're heading. They'd be even happier if we would pay per minute of game-time. Yeah. You'd have to sit there with your VISA plugged into the gamepad and cry yourself to sleep at night because you can't afford to play more. Oh glorious future, I can't wait.

    I recently bought Darkspore on Steam. A new and expensive title. I hate it. I hate it. I can't stand it. It's bad. That was 49,99€ wasted. Now it's just another word in my games list. I wish I could give it away to a friend that might actually enjoy it, and thereby see some minor value in the investment, but I can't do that. At the very least, I'd like to break the disc, burn it and defile it. But I can't do that either. I can't even remove it from my games list. It's always there, staring me in the face, laughing at me. A constant reminder to never buy Darkspore ever again. As if I ever would.
  23. Cota

    Cota TS Enthusiast Posts: 513   +8

    Epic Guest is epic. Don't worry you are not alone since almost all gamers buy a game that wasn't wort it.
    Personally after buying Mass Effect (wich i dont liked not even a bit) i decided to get back to download games from the captains ship play them a week or two and is its good buy it at my next payment, if one day some greedy lawyers call me to court, i will be pleased to tell them "dont worry, i deleted it because it sux" and then use the Chewbacca defense.
  24. Techina

    Techina TS Rookie

  25. Tedster

    Tedster Techspot old timer..... Posts: 6,002   +15

    Boo-hoo. Sorry. Once I buy a game it's mine. And lately I've been BUYING a lot of used games. I really don't want to slam $60-70 on a new game only to discover it sucks, or I finish it in 3 days. I'm not getting my money's worth. Some things are best bought used. Video games are one of them.

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