New US export rules prohibit Nvidia and AMD from selling high-end accelerators to China...

midian182

Posts: 8,335   +103
Staff member
What just happened? US officials have instructed Nvidia and AMD to stop selling their high-performance AI-focused GPUs to China and Russia without a license. In the case of team green, this is expected to impact the company's bottom line by up to $400 million. It could also prevent Nvidia from completing the development of its Hopper H100 products on schedule and supporting existing A100 GPU customers.

"The USG has imposed a new license requirement, effective immediately, for any future export to China (including Hong Kong) and Russia of the Company's A100 and forthcoming H100 integrated circuits," said Nvidia in an SEC filing.

The restriction is designed to prevent the US companies' high-end hardware from being used by or diverted to military users in China or Russia, though Nvidia points out that it doesn't sell products in Russia.

Nvidia must now apply for a license if it wishes to sell any current or future integrated circuit achieving both peak performance and chip-to-chip I/O performance equal to the A100, as well as systems that include those circuits, to China or Russia.

Nvidia says the requirement could hinder its development of the H100 server accelerator and its ability to support existing A100 customers. It may also have to move some operations out of China. Furthermore, Nvidia's Q3 2022 forecast, which includes $400 million in sales to China, may now be inaccurate.

Nvidia is now speaking to its Chinese Data Center customers as it looks to swap out planned or future purchases with those not subject to the new license requirement, such as its less-powerful A30 products. For those instances where a replacement will not suffice, Nvidia may seek a license from the USG, though it can't guarantee the government will grant this request.

AMD said the license requirement would cover sales of its MI250 AI accelerator to China but believes its MI100 accelerator won't be affected. The company said the new rules wouldn't have a material impact on its business.

The new restrictions mark the latest move by the US to hamstring China's chip ambitions. Last month, the US Department of Commerce announced new export controls on tech deemed essential to US national security. The rules included tighter export controls for gallium oxide and diamond, two substrates of ultra-wide bandgap semiconductors.

There were also new restrictions on chipmaking equipment sold to Chinese foundries, with the Biden administration telling all US-based suppliers not to supply equipment for 14nm and newer process nodes to factories operating in China due to national security concerns.

The USG isn't just introducing new export rules for US companies. It also pressured Netherlands-based ASML, the world's largest supplier of lithography machines used in the chipmaking process, to stop selling its older deep ultraviolet (DUV) lithography tools to Chinese clients. Sales of its most advanced extreme ultraviolet (EUV) lithography equipment to Chinese customers is already prohibited.

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emmzo

Posts: 767   +1,185
What goes around... yeah, revenue falling like a brick, Nvidia? This could potentially mean they'll have to slash prices for the upcoming next gen discrete cards if they want to stay in business. Keep 'em coming, karma!
 

dangh

Posts: 791   +1,343
I can understand Russia, but why China?
Instead of playing around, US and UN should accept Taiwan as a separate country, clarify the border, and continue to keep market free. This would stabilize the situation best after obviously China retaliation due to their nationalistics tendencies and 're-educated' population. Republic of China (Taiwan) should return to maps aside of Chinese people's republic and it's time to stop being an *****.
If they have such an issue selling GPU to China, they probably should as well stop importing from them.
And if there is some kind of issue with security / government help and so on, then it should be solved differently than outright ban.
 

Hodor

Posts: 264   +183
Yeah, don't let them collect money by mining ETH.

BTW, is there a GPU cryptomining benchmark? Something like "HashMark" maybe? That would be an interesting number to include in GPU presentation. Maybe your card isn't good for gaming, but produces miracles in "HashMark" :)
 

PeekABo0

Posts: 6   +7
I can understand Russia, but why China?
Instead of playing around, US and UN should accept Taiwan as a separate country, clarify the border, and continue to keep market free. This would stabilize the situation best after obviously China retaliation due to their nationalistics tendencies and 're-educated' population. Republic of China (Taiwan) should return to maps aside of Chinese people's republic and it's time to stop being an *****.
If they have such an issue selling GPU to China, they probably should as well stop importing from them.
And if there is some kind of issue with security / government help and so on, then it should be solved differently than outright ban.
Pretty obvious isnt it ? US just wants to stay at the top, look at all the news about China, and if you keep reading... it says alleged.... weird isn't it?

Weird too how US is so interested in Taiwan? the exact location where the biggest semi conductor company is. SO many other counties are worse off but...US chose Taiwan to publicly support. You think US is supporting taiwan for the people?
 

dangh

Posts: 791   +1,343
Pretty obvious isnt it ? US just wants to stay at the top, look at all the news about China, and if you keep reading... it says alleged.... weird isn't it?

Weird too how US is so interested in Taiwan? the exact location where the biggest semi conductor company is. SO many other counties are worse off but...US chose Taiwan to publicly support. You think US is supporting taiwan for the people?
Obviously, but trying to be on the top cutting off the competition instead of actually improving its own offer is short-sighted. Thanks to previous bans China made huge leap in their own semiconductors technology.
And I do not think US is really supporting Taiwan. US is actually supporting status quo, because they might believe this gives them more control. Actually acknowledging Taiwan as a country could result in China getting over it and then US influence over the island might be reduced.
 

wiyosaya

Posts: 8,284   +7,658
Obviously, but trying to be on the top cutting off the competition instead of actually improving its own offer is short-sighted. Thanks to previous bans China made huge leap in their own semiconductors technology.
And I do not think US is really supporting Taiwan. US is actually supporting status quo, because they might believe this gives them more control. Actually acknowledging Taiwan as a country could result in China getting over it and then US influence over the island might be reduced.
The US is trying to improve its own semi-conductor manufacturing position, though. Just in case you missed it - https://www.techspot.com/community/...iconductor-manufacturing-as-relations.276363/
 

Rocky4040

Posts: 141   +173
What goes around... yeah, revenue falling like a brick, Nvidia? This could potentially mean they'll have to slash prices for the upcoming next gen discrete cards if they want to stay in business. Keep 'em coming, karma!
Slash prices? All it means is Nvidia will raise prices for their consumer stuff to cover their losses & if they do this and get away with it of coarse AMD will do the same thing and raise their prices more as well because if Nvidia does it so will AMD as well.
 

Rocky4040

Posts: 141   +173
I do not think Biden's crew over there actually knows how much stuff comes from that part of the world that gets imported into countries like the USA and Canada. If they keep doing this at some point these governments the USA is pissing off will just ban exporting of products to the USA and the ones that pay for Biden's admins mistakes is the consumers with extra high prices of stuff and the prices are already way to high because of forced high inflation from the worlds governments.
 

wiyosaya

Posts: 8,284   +7,658
I do not think Biden's crew over there actually knows how much stuff comes from that part of the world that gets imported into countries like the USA and Canada. If they keep doing this at some point these governments the USA is pissing off will just ban exporting of products to the USA and the ones that pay for Biden's admins mistakes is the consumers with extra high prices of stuff and the prices are already way to high because of forced high inflation from the worlds governments.
:rolleyes: Blaming this on Biden and/or democrats is rather disingenuous, IMO.

If you really want to place blame, blame these "high-tech" companies who moved everything to China in search of the almighty profits.

Historically speaking, it was a republican who "normalized" relations with China and China that decided the deal was a great way for them to rip-off the west for everything it could. Who was that republican?? None other than Richard M. Nixon.

At least the Biden administration is making an effort to right what might have been Nixon's next most famous blunder after Watergate with the Chips act. The US will not extricate itself from dependency on China immediately, but it will extricate itself from China and, perhaps, bring high-paying high-tech jobs back to the US - assuming people can get over the race to the bottom of the dumpster fire of "lowest cost". You cannot get good things when you are not willing to pay for them.
 

emmzo

Posts: 767   +1,185
Slash prices? All it means is Nvidia will raise prices for their consumer stuff to cover their losses & if they do this and get away with it of coarse AMD will do the same thing and raise their prices more as well because if Nvidia does it so will AMD as well.
There's little demand and they need the money, buddy. The coming recession won't help them either. If they increase prices, little to nobody's going to buy and they lose more. That was my reasoning. Low demand plus low revenue, you slash prices and produce more or you're out.
 
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Axle Grease

Posts: 282   +232
Yeah, don't let them collect money by mining ETH.

BTW, is there a GPU cryptomining benchmark? Something like "HashMark" maybe? That would be an interesting number to include in GPU presentation. Maybe your card isn't good for gaming, but produces miracles in "HashMark" :)

Ethereum is changing from Proof of Work to Proof of Stake to validate transactions so *nobody* will be able to mine ETH after the end of this month. More used cards on the market.
 

emmzo

Posts: 767   +1,185
Ethereum is changing from Proof of Work to Proof of Stake to validate transactions so *nobody* will be able to mine ETH after the end of this month. More used cards on the market.
Miners are still having high hopes for some shitty Eth POW fork, while others bet on Eth classic, which is already exactly that. It's gonna be great seeing them fail miserably and flood the market with 200$ 3080s. Just another nightmare for Nvidia is within reach.
 

Avro Arrow

Posts: 3,119   +4,004
TechSpot Elite
Slash prices? All it means is Nvidia will raise prices for their consumer stuff to cover their losses & if they do this and get away with it of coarse AMD will do the same thing and raise their prices more as well because if Nvidia does it so will AMD as well.
This is why the US government's inability to maintain competition hurts us all. I remember when ATi, 3dfx, Orchid, Diamond, S3, CirrusLogic and Matrox were all making video cards and having one raising their price would be suicidal.
 

Athlonite

Posts: 390   +154
Once again the U.S. Govt thinks it rules the world when in actual fact all they can stop is exports from U.S. Shores to China.

Don't get me wrong I'm not in any way Pro China I'm not I happen to think the world just needs to acknowledge Taiwan as its own country and tell China to back off and I'd LOL if TSMC decided to burn itself to the ground if China invades just so China couldn't get what they really wanted.

AMD is a Canadian company so how is it that the U.S. Govt thinks it can make policy for Canada and who it exports goods to beggars me beyond belief
 

Axle Grease

Posts: 282   +232
Miners are still having high hopes for some shitty Eth POW fork, while others bet on Eth classic, which is already exactly that. It's gonna be great seeing them fail miserably and flood the market with 200$ 3080s. Just another nightmare for Nvidia is within reach.

There were disgruntled miners whinging for an ETH fork but it hasn't gained much traction. Everyone else is excited for the merge. It's a huge upcoming event in the world of crypto.
 

Axle Grease

Posts: 282   +232
Once again the U.S. Govt thinks it rules the world when in actual fact all they can stop is exports from U.S. Shores to China.

Don't get me wrong I'm not in any way Pro China I'm not I happen to think the world just needs to acknowledge Taiwan as its own country and tell China to back off and I'd LOL if TSMC decided to burn itself to the ground if China invades just so China couldn't get what they really wanted.

AMD is a Canadian company so how is it that the U.S. Govt thinks it can make policy for Canada and who it exports goods to beggars me beyond belief

I'm staunchly anti-CCP which has royally f**ked over China since 1946. So, the more one-finger salutes given to Xi Jinping by government officials visiting Taiwan, the better. He needs to get used to it, irrespective of how many fish die in the process. Maybe Pelosi started a trend.

BTW, both AMD and Nvidia are U.S. based.
 

gamerk2

Posts: 758   +733
:rolleyes: Blaming this on Biden and/or democrats is rather disingenuous, IMO.

If you really want to place blame, blame these "high-tech" companies who moved everything to China in search of the almighty profits.

Historically speaking, it was a republican who "normalized" relations with China and China that decided the deal was a great way for them to rip-off the west for everything it could. Who was that republican?? None other than Richard M. Nixon.

At least the Biden administration is making an effort to right what might have been Nixon's next most famous blunder after Watergate with the Chips act. The US will not extricate itself from dependency on China immediately, but it will extricate itself from China and, perhaps, bring high-paying high-tech jobs back to the US - assuming people can get over the race to the bottom of the dumpster fire of "lowest cost". You cannot get good things when you are not willing to pay for them.

To be fair, normalizing with China made sense at the time. China post-Mao was *much* more amenable, and US overtures to China more or less forced Russia into a détente in order to try and prevent a possible US-China counter-alliance against them. Or put another way: In the 70's tensions cooled because non of the US, China, or USSR could risk being left out of a potential alliance.

The "real" problem is Reaganomics, or the economic theory that inflation can be kept low by driving down labor costs, which in turn resulted in the need to drive down prices of goods and services as much as possible. This lead to the GOP adopting Supply Side economics wholesale, leading to many of the Free Trade agreements they now oppose. [Remember that while NAFTA did pass under Clinton, it was after he held it hostage to get more worker protections put in. Bush (41) and the GOP tried to ram a much worse bill through Congress after he lose the election.]

Your seeing inflation now due to a combination of supply shortages (caused primarily due to several million workers being out of the labor market due to a case of COVID related death), increased worker wages (caused by a massive worldwide worker undersupply combined with tightening immigration rules), combined with the rapid post-COVID rise in economic activity. Hence the downside of Supply-Side theory: Any type of supply shock breaks the economy.

While the supply situation will only gradually improve, the greatest short-term economic risk is a interest-rate induced recession due to overreaction to inflation. At the end of the day, most of the current bout of inflation is driven by supply side shortages, rather then increased spending, so raising rates will have minimal impact on inflation but a larger impact on economic growth.
 

gamerk2

Posts: 758   +733
I can understand Russia, but why China?
Instead of playing around, US and UN should accept Taiwan as a separate country, clarify the border, and continue to keep market free. This would stabilize the situation best after obviously China retaliation due to their nationalistics tendencies and 're-educated' population. Republic of China (Taiwan) should return to maps aside of Chinese people's republic and it's time to stop being an *****.
If they have such an issue selling GPU to China, they probably should as well stop importing from them.
And if there is some kind of issue with security / government help and so on, then it should be solved differently than outright ban.

To be fair, the US only initially stood up for Taiwan because of it's anti-communist stance. [Which to be fair still exists; just look at immigration policy for Central America versus Cuba].

The problem now is the US knows (using Hong Kong as the primary example) what will happen if China takes over Taiwan, not even considering the semiconductor industry the US will be reliant on for at least a few decades longer. But at the same time, it's effectively too far away to defend (especially since most of the US's former allies in SE Asia are now under China's thrall). Hence the "will we defend it or won't we?" stance the US has historically taken.

The issue now is China sees what US aid can do to stop a military invasion, and Taiwan being an island makes that doubly so. So the fear is that China sees this, and decides if they want Taiwan they have to invade NOW, especially since Biden has all but indicated the US will get involved. China might decide, essentially "possession is 9/10s of the law", which would have the potential to get *very* messy very quickly.

If the US wants to openly commit to defending Taiwan that's fine, but then the US needs to abandon it's one-China stance and actually put a force on the island that is capable of defending it to act as a deterrent. Because right now, there isn't one, and that's a problem.
 

Jimster480

Posts: 152   +138
I can understand Russia, but why China?
Instead of playing around, US and UN should accept Taiwan as a separate country, clarify the border, and continue to keep market free. This would stabilize the situation best after obviously China retaliation due to their nationalistics tendencies and 're-educated' population. Republic of China (Taiwan) should return to maps aside of Chinese people's republic and it's time to stop being an *****.
If they have such an issue selling GPU to China, they probably should as well stop importing from them.
And if there is some kind of issue with security / government help and so on, then it should be solved differently than outright ban.
You do realize that the Cold War started because the UN hasn't ever recognized Taiwan as a country and tried to give Taiwan to China in the 50s. Do some research, the UN is the bad guy. They won't ever do what you are saying.
 

Jimster480

Posts: 152   +138
To be fair, the US only initially stood up for Taiwan because of it's anti-communist stance. [Which to be fair still exists; just look at immigration policy for Central America versus Cuba].

The problem now is the US knows (using Hong Kong as the primary example) what will happen if China takes over Taiwan, not even considering the semiconductor industry the US will be reliant on for at least a few decades longer. But at the same time, it's effectively too far away to defend (especially since most of the US's former allies in SE Asia are now under China's thrall). Hence the "will we defend it or won't we?" stance the US has historically taken.

The issue now is China sees what US aid can do to stop a military invasion, and Taiwan being an island makes that doubly so. So the fear is that China sees this, and decides if they want Taiwan they have to invade NOW, especially since Biden has all but indicated the US will get involved. China might decide, essentially "possession is 9/10s of the law", which would have the potential to get *very* messy very quickly.

If the US wants to openly commit to defending Taiwan that's fine, but then the US needs to abandon it's one-China stance and actually put a force on the island that is capable of defending it to act as a deterrent. Because right now, there isn't one, and that's a problem.
This is all a geopolitical game and Biden won't do anything. The CCP knows this but they are afraid of invading Taiwan and losing TSMC because China's economy will be ruined if TSMC is destroyed.
 

Jimster480

Posts: 152   +138
I'm staunchly anti-CCP which has royally f**ked over China since 1946. So, the more one-finger salutes given to Xi Jinping by government officials visiting Taiwan, the better. He needs to get used to it, irrespective of how many fish die in the process. Maybe Pelosi started a trend.

BTW, both AMD and Nvidia are U.S. based.
Xi and the CCP are not necessarily on good terms. The CCP is trying to get rid of Xi because they want the status quo where they all get rich just like the US politicians want. Xi is pro china domestic power and economy which is against the globalist idea of a one world govt with a one world currency.
Pelosi going to Taiwan is basically trying to bait Xi so that the CCP can get rid of him since Pelosi works closely with the CCP and has for several decades now.
Do some research; there is quite a lot of information on this. Unfortunately most of the politicians in power despite whatever "party" they pretend to "align with" work with the same globalist groups.