Nvidia fell for an orchestrated pricing trap, says AMD exec

Maxiking

Posts: 153   +169
Can we just stop spreading AMD marketing BS? What did Nvidia fall for? Their prices are EXACTLY THE SAME.

AMD had to lower them in order to sell something, non super GPUs are EOL, not being produced at all.

Nvidia can simply lower the prices of super series by 49 dollars and make the AMD lineup completely irrelevant.

Nvidia is using an older node, the AMD is using a 7nm which s 2.5 times more costly and has lower yields than the Nvidias manufacturin process. AMD margin is so low they decided to those cheap terrible blower fans to maximize profits. Look at the Nvidias reference editions.

Another marketing fiasco like poor Volta. Yeah, you usually slash the prices one day before you release something to show your customers that your product is slower thus you have to lower the prices because the competition is more powerful.
OMG, I cannot believe how many Nvidia fans are on this site, I'm speechless in fact. The Super are not better than Navi and who cares about the node, AMD has put in the market a GPU that can trade blows with same efficiency as the 2070 Super at $100 less, that's a fact. This is the first iteration of Navi and by the die size it is obviously a mid-range GPU that can in fact compete against Nvidia mid-range for far less money, you better stop this damage control thing because Nvidia doesn't need it. This place is almost looking like Wccftech since AMD launched Ryzen 2 and Navi. SMH.


AMD Navi is on 7nm, Nvidia is at 12nm, so of course, AMD die will have less mm2 if they use the same ammount of transistors, you loler. Half of the Nvidia die is dedicated for raytracing and not used otherwise.
So no, AMD architecture is actually worse, since they are on a newer node and having no raytracing, still can't beat Nvidia in raw performance and power consumption figure are nothing special either. Nvidia turing on 7nm would consume 40% less power and beat AMD down into the ground.

Congrats, you failed for the AMD trap.



Bye.
 
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captaincranky

Posts: 18,529   +7,370
Hmm in the last few years I've had R9 280X >> R9 390X >> RX Vega 64 >> Radeon VII and had 0 problems with VLC media player ;-P
Actually, I can't blame it directly on the VLC player. Under heavy loads, or medium loads, without video, it summarily quits..

What's even spookier, is the fact that all my Intel CPUs w/ntegrated IGP, will play 1080p. and I've never had even the tiniest problem with Intel's HDMI drivers.

I have a Skylake 6600K based box, with a 1050ti. With Intel's deep, deep sleep, standby, if I leave it sleep too long, (couple of days maybe), the Nvidia driver sometimes doesn't wake from standby, and a reboot is necessary.
 
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Shadowboxer

Posts: 2,071   +1,650
Laughable. AMD panicked when they saw the super series and cut prices in order to actually sell anything at all. Now they’ve got some dude telling the press it was all pre-planned. Yeah right mate, typical AMD bs. Nvidia walk all over them when it comes to marketing usually.

Oh and for what it’s worth to the fanboys arguing in the comments, as a user of modern GPUs from both manufacturers. I find AMD drivers to be more stable as in they crash less. But they have more bugs and take longer to fix bugs compared to Nvidia, in particular with new games, Nvidia drivers come out faster and more error free. Nvidia driver support also lasts way longer but AMD drivers improve their cards more over time. Pick which company you want to be victim to. I prefer Nvidias driver support. I’m sure some using AMD or Nvidia have had no issues, that doesn’t mean no one else is, stop using that as an argument! I’ve never been in a car crash, that doesn’t mean humans never have car crashes!
 

Irata

Posts: 2,042   +3,465
Haha, funny guy. Too bad AMD simply isn't an option if

1) perf/watt matters in any way
2) driver quality, especially Linux driver quality matters in any way
3) the target is an enterprise/datacenter, where CUDA is ubiquitous

Admittedly, AMD's perf / watt was terrible for Polaris and Vega out of the box. But if you had bothered to read the Navi reviews, this problem has finally been solved.

For the rest, not being on Linux or running a data center, I cannot comment.
 

DubiousFishHook

Posts: 48   +14
I'll stick with intel when it comes to graphics, the latest benchmarks is really revleling why you should so.. and 50 bucks is spit in the bucket when it still is so expensive, im a billionaire by birth but I love SFF & power savings.
 

loki1944

Posts: 565   +382
Great AMD, you can talk the talk.

Now how about walking the walk? Your pricing shenanigans only hurt the 2070 super, arguably. The 2080, 2080 super, and 2080ti are still printing a mint for nvidia. Playing silly pricing games doesnt really matter if you still cant get past the performance of Vega 64.

Driver problems? Where?

Where? At my house, and many other's houses as well.
I supposed you meant when. From around 2004 through 2016, so I was wrong. They are worse than I have been saying. 12+ years. And I still have the cards in computers laying around. As of their last boot, the problems were still there.
Perhaps you should stop judging modern AMD cards by nearly 3 year old graphics drivers? It isnt 2004 anymore, and it isnt 2016 anymore. It's 2019, and AMD's drivers are right behind Nvidia's in quality. Hell, in 2016 the RX 480 was out, and AMD's drivers were already rapidly approaching Nvidia quality and were a far cry from the drivers of just a year earlier.

Nowhere close to Nvidia quality. Nvidia graphics drivers never uninstalled usb ports, needed registry edits (https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/8p48ah/psa_fix_for_radeon_settings_version_and_driver/), shoddy unsigned driver nightmare (https://www.amd.com/en/support/kb/faq/gpu-kb99). I've had far more issues with AMD drivers for their GPUs (16x AMD cards) than I have had with Nvidia (22x cards) in the same time frame. AMD drivers are garbage; if they supported their own products instead of having the same chronic problems from their sloppy QC practice, they would probably be doing a lot better.

AMD drivers vs Nvidia are like spam vs prime rib in terms of quality.
 
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wildkat

Posts: 13   +10
This is laughable and the AMD General Counsel needs to remind their senior leaders about making false statements least they get sued.

They lowered the prices because the only think they can compete on is price and even that doesn't work. The RX 570 is a great GPU but it couldn't get any traction in the gaming world until AMD slashed the price and bundled games with it. At the same time, 1050ti cards are selling at $60 ABOVE December prices. Watch the Steam Survey in December and you are going to find the 1660 and 1650 series with more market share than every AMD processor combined. Saying that the 2060 and 2070 were selling slowly is even funnier considering both are above the 570 on Steam Survey and both are likely to surpass AMDs best performer, the RX 580, by the end of summer. Think about that - the RX 580 is a 2017 card that was essentially a rebadge of a 2016 card (480) and it is by far their best seller as far as total number of users on Steam and it only got there by AMD cutting the price to the bone and tossing in free games. Oh and the 1050/1050ti gained more Steam share in July than the 580 has total. The 1050 series just missed gaining more than the 570 and 580 combined have in share.

Im not anti-AMD. I have a 570 in one of my gaming rigs and I have been hoping the 580 would drop to $150 to put it in a second one. But this "I meant to do that" BS is just that, BS. "Navi" might be great eventually. Right now it isn't. Its upper mid tier cards at upper mid tier prices. Anti lag is a joke and sharpening is marketing. Worse, Its all that in a crappy blower design until mid-August while Nvidia is shipping well cooled cards now with AIBs taking orders for end of July shipments. AIBs are not even taking preorders for 5700 series yet, likely because they have no idea how to price them now.

fan boys are going to snatch up blower card and declare them the best ever (looking at you GOG Chris and Not An Apple Fan) and then quietly continue gaming on their 2070 Super.
 

Adi6293

Posts: 931   +1,309
This is laughable and the AMD General Counsel needs to remind their senior leaders about making false statements least they get sued.

They lowered the prices because the only think they can compete on is price and even that doesn't work. The RX 570 is a great GPU but it couldn't get any traction in the gaming world until AMD slashed the price and bundled games with it. At the same time, 1050ti cards are selling at $60 ABOVE December prices. Watch the Steam Survey in December and you are going to find the 1660 and 1650 series with more market share than every AMD processor combined. Saying that the 2060 and 2070 were selling slowly is even funnier considering both are above the 570 on Steam Survey and both are likely to surpass AMDs best performer, the RX 580, by the end of summer. Think about that - the RX 580 is a 2017 card that was essentially a rebadge of a 2016 card (480) and it is by far their best seller as far as total number of users on Steam and it only got there by AMD cutting the price to the bone and tossing in free games. Oh and the 1050/1050ti gained more Steam share in July than the 580 has total. The 1050 series just missed gaining more than the 570 and 580 combined have in share.

Im not anti-AMD. I have a 570 in one of my gaming rigs and I have been hoping the 580 would drop to $150 to put it in a second one. But this "I meant to do that" BS is just that, BS. "Navi" might be great eventually. Right now it isn't. Its upper mid tier cards at upper mid tier prices. Anti lag is a joke and sharpening is marketing. Worse, Its all that in a crappy blower design until mid-August while Nvidia is shipping well cooled cards now with AIBs taking orders for end of July shipments. AIBs are not even taking preorders for 5700 series yet, likely because they have no idea how to price them now.

fan boys are going to snatch up blower card and declare them the best ever (looking at you GOG Chris and Not An Apple Fan) and then quietly continue gaming on their 2070 Super.

This is the problem with the market though, AMD makes good cards but they just dont sell. As for Not an Apple he's got a Radeon VII that he says he will say and keep the RX5700XT and Criss is gaming on a RX580 but he also has a GTX1070 :)
 

QuantumPhysics

Posts: 6,271   +7,207
Crypto Currency caused a massive shift in the market 4 years ago which we are only now seeing the end of.

The price of RAM is improving.

The price of SSD is improving.

The price of solid 4K capable video cards able to run 1080p gaming flawlessly is already here.

NVIDIA has a very competitive line of 1000 series cards on the market and an industry leading line of RTX cards on the market for "enthusiasts" - a word that means nothing anymore without hardcore tech demonstrators like Crysis being produced.

Price trap or no price trap, Nvidia can take temporary losses - they are in the lead and AMD will be in perpetual pursuit.
 

QuantumPhysics

Posts: 6,271   +7,207
Can I be convinced we are in a place where we were before crypto destroyed the market? I may consider building a new rig when a descent CPU with overclocking headroom is released.

This is a great PR move, but after over a decade of trying to stay with AMD and only getting driver problem after driver problem, it would be like driving a stake through my hand to buy AMD again. It would only be with a full refund warranty, which would drive the price up. I am not seeing making the switch for quite a while. :/


going with anything other than Intel and Nvidia is basically saying: "I will brave any and all inconveniences to be different".
 

redgarl

Posts: 172   +244
You can't assume they will get 50% reduction in size and clocks won't necessary go up that much, I will be surprised if we ever get 3Ghz GPU since we are reaching silicon limitations now. But yes AMD still has a lot of work to do the thing that saves them right now it the lack of RT that saves them space but if nVidia wants it to be popular they have to go big to make it work on mainstream cards

Two main reasons why Nvidia might have chosen Samsung 7nm EUV. It's cheaper for them or it's better than TSMC DUV. Quite likely both. On paper it's equivalent to TSMC's EUV, which is 10-15 percent (realistically- TSMC claim 20%) more dense than their current DUV process.

Wrong, they went PARTLY to Samsung because of SUPPLY concerns. EUV will be WAY more expensive per wafer because it will be a limited production. TSMC is relatively a cheap 7nm process.
 

redgarl

Posts: 172   +244
Can we just stop spreading AMD marketing BS? What did Nvidia fall for? Their prices are EXACTLY THE SAME.

AMD had to lower them in order to sell something, non super GPUs are EOL, not being produced at all.

Nvidia can simply lower the prices of super series by 49 dollars and make the AMD lineup completely irrelevant.

Nvidia is using an older node, the AMD is using a 7nm which s 2.5 times more costly and has lower yields than the Nvidias manufacturin process. AMD margin is so low they decided to those cheap terrible blower fans to maximize profits. Look at the Nvidias reference editions.

Another marketing fiasco like poor Volta. Yeah, you usually slash the prices one day before you release something to show your customers that your product is slower thus you have to lower the prices because the competition is more powerful.
OMG, I cannot believe how many Nvidia fans are on this site, I'm speechless in fact. The Super are not better than Navi and who cares about the node, AMD has put in the market a GPU that can trade blows with same efficiency as the 2070 Super at $100 less, that's a fact. This is the first iteration of Navi and by the die size it is obviously a mid-range GPU that can in fact compete against Nvidia mid-range for far less money, you better stop this damage control thing because Nvidia doesn't need it. This place is almost looking like Wccftech since AMD launched Ryzen 2 and Navi. SMH.

Correction here, the 5700XT is competing with the HIGH END of Nvidia. The 2080 RTX is high end and the 2070 SUPER is using a 2080 RTX chip. So mid-range AMD compete with High End Nvidia... and nobody understand what the hell is going on... it is simple, RDNA might be a Ryzen. It will just be so easy to understand in a year or two when all the games are optimized for RDNA and Zen 2.
 

ShagnWagn

Posts: 1,297   +1,085
Great AMD, you can talk the talk.

Now how about walking the walk? Your pricing shenanigans only hurt the 2070 super, arguably. The 2080, 2080 super, and 2080ti are still printing a mint for nvidia. Playing silly pricing games doesnt really matter if you still cant get past the performance of Vega 64.


Perhaps you should stop judging modern AMD cards by nearly 3 year old graphics drivers? It isnt 2004 anymore, and it isnt 2016 anymore. It's 2019, and AMD's drivers are right behind Nvidia's in quality. Hell, in 2016 the RX 480 was out, and AMD's drivers were already rapidly approaching Nvidia quality and were a far cry from the drivers of just a year earlier.

So, after over a DECADE of getting burned, you demand I just keep buying them? LOL /facepalm

"Look - I know that guy tried to kill you over and over, but you need to stop judging him from the past and just let him back in your house"
 

ShObiT

Posts: 200   +217
Not in the slightest "Underhanded" they didn't pay anyone to say anything bad about Nvidia or pay companies as Intel does, they worked and (Probably) finally hired some Smart head in their marketing division FINALLY for freak sake!!
 
Nvidia may have large die sizes, but the previous generation of AMD, before RDNA came along, had to use stuff like HBM2 to get performance comparable to Nvidia's, as the CEO of Nvidia was so kind as to point out.
Do you think we talking about die size as to what node it is on?...... no. Amd was talking about the actual size of the die. When a die is big it tends to have more failed chips, thus making the company to raise the price of the product to combat the loses of dead chips in manufacturing. Thats also why Threadripper was so cheap for the work related performance it has. Threadripped doesnt have a huge die on it but instead 2 smaller ones. So less dead chips, and as a result amd could make the price more affordable. And this is the reason why xeons have such high prices. They have huge dies to fit all the cores in. But intel is making them with chiplets too now. Even though they meme-ed this back in the day. calling it glue...