PC -vs- Game Console
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Justin
Posts: 914 +0
Just to clear up some confusion here...
EMULATION IS NOT ILLEGAL [/size]
The selling or usage of a ROM image in which you do not own the cartridge of IS. You are legally entitled to make a duplicate copy of any console game you own for backup puposes, period!. Despite what nintendo/sony/microsoft/et cetera try to lead you to believe there is federal law that allows you to do such to all digital media. It is 100% perfectly legal to use an emulator and a ROM image along with it provided you own the original cart, I think in some cases you have to have dumped the ROM image yourself as well.
But anyways.
Also, I have always found old PC games exceedingly easy to find. Both in compilation CDs (legal), abandonware sites(grey zone) and "old warez" locations (depends). Many old games can be found very easily. And, Tie Fighter for windows works perfectly fine in windows XP, I don't know what your issue was.
EMULATION IS NOT ILLEGAL [/size]
The selling or usage of a ROM image in which you do not own the cartridge of IS. You are legally entitled to make a duplicate copy of any console game you own for backup puposes, period!. Despite what nintendo/sony/microsoft/et cetera try to lead you to believe there is federal law that allows you to do such to all digital media. It is 100% perfectly legal to use an emulator and a ROM image along with it provided you own the original cart, I think in some cases you have to have dumped the ROM image yourself as well.
But anyways.
Also, I have always found old PC games exceedingly easy to find. Both in compilation CDs (legal), abandonware sites(grey zone) and "old warez" locations (depends). Many old games can be found very easily. And, Tie Fighter for windows works perfectly fine in windows XP, I don't know what your issue was.
Mr.Guvernment
Posts: 76 +0
PC are more powerful - the newer ones.
this really is not a fair comparision, as each does diff things, it ust so happens u can play game soin PC;s
but look at it this way
the only console out with a hi res - is X-box - which can handle a 1800x something res - BUT then u need a HD tv to even be able to use that.
Consoles are limited by their resolutions and tv t hey are played on
a Computer can output FAR superios graphics then a console - pending of course on the PC. - frankly, both ym system would whip the floor with a console.
And as said - it is about titles - frankly, i am more then happy with the PC titles out - as many i like u can not get for a PS2 (which i decided to buy and chipped) - and even if i could, why would i want them on a PS2 when my PC can give me far better quality graphics wise - and i can just use my TV out if i want to play it on ym tv
Consoles are for gaming, and having some friends over the "quick fix" as i saw above, PC are for more.
I would rather spend $2k on a PC that i can upgrade and do a million other things on, then $200 for a console that i can strickly play games on - and now maybe a dvd.
Even with the online aspect of the consoles - how many games can you play online? i don't think they have that many yet, again, this is why i like the PC - most all games i get, are multiplayer online, which i like, i hate playing by myself...lol
this really is not a fair comparision, as each does diff things, it ust so happens u can play game soin PC;s
but look at it this way
the only console out with a hi res - is X-box - which can handle a 1800x something res - BUT then u need a HD tv to even be able to use that.
Consoles are limited by their resolutions and tv t hey are played on
a Computer can output FAR superios graphics then a console - pending of course on the PC. - frankly, both ym system would whip the floor with a console.
And as said - it is about titles - frankly, i am more then happy with the PC titles out - as many i like u can not get for a PS2 (which i decided to buy and chipped) - and even if i could, why would i want them on a PS2 when my PC can give me far better quality graphics wise - and i can just use my TV out if i want to play it on ym tv
Consoles are for gaming, and having some friends over the "quick fix" as i saw above, PC are for more.
I would rather spend $2k on a PC that i can upgrade and do a million other things on, then $200 for a console that i can strickly play games on - and now maybe a dvd.
Even with the online aspect of the consoles - how many games can you play online? i don't think they have that many yet, again, this is why i like the PC - most all games i get, are multiplayer online, which i like, i hate playing by myself...lol
Mr.Guvernment
Posts: 76 +0
Well, some numbers
Max resolutions:
PS2 ----------------1280 x 1024
XBox --------------1920 x 1080
gameCube--------Unknown, but up to HDTV resolution
Now, how many people have an HD tv to take advantage of this? not many, and since most older tv only allow a max res of 640 x 480 - and most newer 800 x 600 (anything higher it is simply "emulating") - consoles are limited by what they are displayed on.
I would not say that consoles KICK arse in graphics - as many games i have for PS2 - i have for PC - and the PC quality is FAR better looking then a PS2 - 1600 x 1200 res, 8xAA, the whole nine yards. (nice having a 9700 pro and g4 4600 ultra)
Also, many developers are not using the full power of the consoles they make games for either. this likely won't happen for a while either.
So, i would say that you are wrong in saying that every ps2 game is graphically better then any PC game - as that is not a fact, but only an opinion. (but as you corrected your self - some may appear better.
Examples i have seen (as i have both PC and ps2 versions)
THPS 4 and 3
NHL 2003
NBA live 2003
The Sims
IRHS Drag racing
Ghost Recon
but yes, this is an on going debate that will never end!
Mr.Guvernment
Posts: 76 +0
Making a BACKUP is not legal - but making an emulator to play that back up can be - i believe MS has threatened a few companies who tried to make an X-Box Emu - because for one, you are taking the code of the console which is the sole property of the creator, and with out their strict permission, you are "stealing" code to create something - which in turn IS illegal.
Th3M1ghtyD8
Posts: 660 +0
It depends how the emulator is made. If documentation about the system is freely available, i.e. from the chip manufacturers etc. or public domain software is reverse-engineered then it is legal. If documentation is leaked, or official software is reverse-engineered in order to get an understanding into how the hardware works, then obviously it is illegal.
Mr.Guvernment
Posts: 76 +0
^^^^^ thanks for clearing up that part
conradguerrero
Posts: 307 +0
the next generation of consoles will blur the line in terms of performace vs. pc performance.
does anyone know the ''worth'' of the gaming industry, pc and console? just curious to see where the money is going. I assume ps2 leads the pack of consoles, but industry wide as well?
does anyone know the ''worth'' of the gaming industry, pc and console? just curious to see where the money is going. I assume ps2 leads the pack of consoles, but industry wide as well?
Have u seen the ps3 'specs'?
i have just read them in the new PCF!
apartenly the CPU has 100x the power of a 2.5ghz P4
and the ram apartenly has a 100gigabit/s bandwidth
and im the pink fairy! computers have nothing ike that power yet!
i reckon it will b the the GeFX (projected 3dmark2001 score:22,000, actual score:13,000)
and the price would b just incredeble
Steg
p.s. but if it is true (which it cant be) pc gaming might lose its last edge......
i have just read them in the new PCF!
apartenly the CPU has 100x the power of a 2.5ghz P4
and the ram apartenly has a 100gigabit/s bandwidth
and im the pink fairy! computers have nothing ike that power yet!
i reckon it will b the the GeFX (projected 3dmark2001 score:22,000, actual score:13,000)
and the price would b just incredeble
Steg
p.s. but if it is true (which it cant be) pc gaming might lose its last edge......
Nic
Posts: 1,519 +1
---------------------------------------------
quote...
Have u seen the ps3 'specs'? ...
---------------------------------------------
I would'nt believe everything you read!
Here are some rather more realistic specs for PS3 ...
PS3 Specs
It seems that information has become corrupted and misquoted as it has circulated the web. The 'impossible' specs quoted are simply not achievable by 2005.
The PS3 is being designed with the capability to share processing and resources with other networked PS3's so reducing the amount of work done by each - much like running the SETI@home or FOLDING@home programs.
You could get yourself a very powerful game console if you have enough cash to splash on a network of dozens of PS3's, but most of us probably won't bother.
Here's a link with more info on this ...
PS3 - Distributed Computing
quote...
Have u seen the ps3 'specs'? ...
---------------------------------------------
I would'nt believe everything you read!
Here are some rather more realistic specs for PS3 ...
PS3 Specs
It seems that information has become corrupted and misquoted as it has circulated the web. The 'impossible' specs quoted are simply not achievable by 2005.
The PS3 is being designed with the capability to share processing and resources with other networked PS3's so reducing the amount of work done by each - much like running the SETI@home or FOLDING@home programs.
You could get yourself a very powerful game console if you have enough cash to splash on a network of dozens of PS3's, but most of us probably won't bother.
Here's a link with more info on this ...
PS3 - Distributed Computing
agissi
Posts: 1,929 +15
Naa guys, dont bet your money on anything you see. This happenes every year, and the specs are always way off. It can change, and will change. In early mags I get with the 'upcomming PS2 specs', there all way off. For instance, the PS2 was ment to come with a Network adaptor and HD orgionally. Then they made it an extra $50 for the two. Now its $40 for the network adapter alone, we havnt even see a HD. Maybe E3 will show some goods It goes on and on, I'd never take word on any specs untill its actually out.
"Just my $.02"
It goes on and on, I'd never take word on any specs untill its actually out."Just my $.02"
agissi
Posts: 1,929 +15
Sorry got the 2x post put from that link above:
"120GB Hard Disk Drive"
Get a life. Think they want you to copy games to the HD? Imagine how how much this thing would cost to make. The PS2 actually costs $400 to make. Cept they have to retail for $300, not many will throw out $400 for something that in a years time will be $200. and another:
"3D Geometric Transformations: 2 Billion Polygons per Second "
The PS2 can only pull 20 million or so....Dreamcast comming in under 10 Mill. their saying 2 Bill for PS3? maybe 1 billion with those specs but Im not thinkin 2. =\
Check out this aticle, its pretty intesting about the polygons.http://www.ps2fantasy.com/hardware/ps2/graphics.php
"120GB Hard Disk Drive"
Get a life. Think they want you to copy games to the HD? Imagine how how much this thing would cost to make. The PS2 actually costs $400 to make. Cept they have to retail for $300, not many will throw out $400 for something that in a years time will be $200. and another:
"3D Geometric Transformations: 2 Billion Polygons per Second "
The PS2 can only pull 20 million or so....Dreamcast comming in under 10 Mill. their saying 2 Bill for PS3? maybe 1 billion with those specs but Im not thinkin 2. =\
Check out this aticle, its pretty intesting about the polygons.http://www.ps2fantasy.com/hardware/ps2/graphics.php
conradguerrero
Posts: 307 +0
remember that we're talking about as yet, unreleased, still in R & D hardware. I don't care how 'fast' it might be, but how fast it will be. and there is alot of time between now and ps3's release, expect the hardware to be up to specs then and not now.
negroplasty
Posts: 547 +36
Forget the PS3, just imagine the XBOX 2!! That console is gonna blow us all away, I am getting a little ahead of myself, but I can dream can't I? I found a page with the possible specs for XBOX 2 and then I went and lost it! If anyone finds anything, please post.
Vehementi
Posts: 2,644 +2
I believe the next generation consoles, just like Macs, are becoming more like PCs. Intel is making the CPU, nvidia is making the GPU, and two of the three mainstream consoles are being built by almost pure computer companies. The Mac OS is becoming more and more like Linux, and so is the console OS. To me, the console offers nothing revolutionary in terms of games. Most game technological advances have all been on the PC.
Soon, the definition of "console" will be synonymous with "mini-ATX computer."
And I wouldn't trust the "possible specs" for the XBOX2 unless they're from a slightly reputable site.
Soon, the definition of "console" will be synonymous with "mini-ATX computer."
And I wouldn't trust the "possible specs" for the XBOX2 unless they're from a slightly reputable site.
negroplasty
Posts: 547 +36
I agree with that, all of these so called "possible specs" are being denied by the manufacturers with the standard "we do not comment on rumors" But I think it's pretty safe to say that consoles are advancing extremely fast and are bound to be on par with the PC some time in the future.
Nic
Posts: 1,519 +1
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
timmoore ...
... consoles are advancing extremely fast and are bound to be
on par with the PC some time in the future.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
True, but consoles are not currently upgradable in the same way that PCs are, so any advancement made by consoles will be short lived and bettered by PCs sooner than you might think. Most consoles seem to be engineered with a life expectancy of about 3 years before a better model (i.e. next generation console) becomes available.
Given this rather serious drawback I would'nt be surprised if consoles become more modular, like mini-PCs, in the not too distant future. Consoles, such as XBOX and PS2, can already run PC software such as Linux and even use similar hardware, so it is only a small step closer towards becoming a PC, with all the cost savings that using common components would entail. Also, game developer's will only need to target a single platform, thus making games development a whole lot cheaper and easier.
timmoore ...
... consoles are advancing extremely fast and are bound to be
on par with the PC some time in the future.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
True, but consoles are not currently upgradable in the same way that PCs are, so any advancement made by consoles will be short lived and bettered by PCs sooner than you might think. Most consoles seem to be engineered with a life expectancy of about 3 years before a better model (i.e. next generation console) becomes available.
Given this rather serious drawback I would'nt be surprised if consoles become more modular, like mini-PCs, in the not too distant future. Consoles, such as XBOX and PS2, can already run PC software such as Linux and even use similar hardware, so it is only a small step closer towards becoming a PC, with all the cost savings that using common components would entail. Also, game developer's will only need to target a single platform, thus making games development a whole lot cheaper and easier.
negroplasty
Posts: 547 +36
Steg is right, I nearly fell off my chair when I saw the possible specs of the PS3, but now that I think of it more thoroughly, the first thing that races to mind is what PCs will be like. I can just imagine.....
Nic
Posts: 1,519 +1
Does'nt anybody read these post properly?
As is mentioned in a previous post the PS3 specs that are circulating the web are grossly exaggerated and due to someone misinterpreting factual info.
Here is what Shin'ichi Okamoto, chief technical officer for Sony Computer Entertainment had to say on PS3 ...
PS3 Specs
Its pretty clear from this interview that the rather exaggerated performance claims for PS3 only apply when linking perhaps dozens of PS3's together to form a distributed supercomputer. It seems that someone read some stuff about possible performance and derived a spec by assuming that it was for a single cpu - not very clever really!
Distributed computing is something that would not be practical for most of us due to cost - e.g. say you have four PS3's at £200 each (cost = £800); to double performance you need another four PS3's (total cost now = £1600). It would be better to wait for PS4 and get more performance for effectively same cost as one PS3!
One other thing to mention is that distributed computing might not scale as well for games as it does for analysing protien molecules due to the fact that games are realtime and all output to your monitor would be controlled by a single PS3. There are also considerations of bandwidth limitation for the network. I think that PS3 is becoming more than just a games machine!
The more realistic published PS3 specs of 3.4GHz CPU speed are more believable and this speed cpu would be pretty cheap by 2005, but even this might be improved on slightly.
Sorry to disappoint all you PS3 fans, but its time to come back down to earth now.
As is mentioned in a previous post the PS3 specs that are circulating the web are grossly exaggerated and due to someone misinterpreting factual info.
Here is what Shin'ichi Okamoto, chief technical officer for Sony Computer Entertainment had to say on PS3 ...
PS3 Specs
Its pretty clear from this interview that the rather exaggerated performance claims for PS3 only apply when linking perhaps dozens of PS3's together to form a distributed supercomputer. It seems that someone read some stuff about possible performance and derived a spec by assuming that it was for a single cpu - not very clever really!
Distributed computing is something that would not be practical for most of us due to cost - e.g. say you have four PS3's at £200 each (cost = £800); to double performance you need another four PS3's (total cost now = £1600). It would be better to wait for PS4 and get more performance for effectively same cost as one PS3!
One other thing to mention is that distributed computing might not scale as well for games as it does for analysing protien molecules due to the fact that games are realtime and all output to your monitor would be controlled by a single PS3. There are also considerations of bandwidth limitation for the network. I think that PS3 is becoming more than just a games machine!
The more realistic published PS3 specs of 3.4GHz CPU speed are more believable and this speed cpu would be pretty cheap by 2005, but even this might be improved on slightly.
Sorry to disappoint all you PS3 fans, but its time to come back down to earth now.
negroplasty
Posts: 547 +36
If you are talking about me Nic, my apologies, and I shall read posts more thoroughly from now on.
conradguerrero
Posts: 307 +0
Now all they have to do is put a PC type OS on the PS3, maybe Lindows? I know sony's gonna sell Linux for the PS2 but i get the feeling they're for programming only.
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