President Trump signs bill to overturn FCC privacy rules for ISPs

Shawn Knight

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President Donald Trump as promised has signed into law a bill that overturns an earlier ruling by the Federal Communications Commission that would have forced Internet service providers to obtain consent before selling customers’ browsing history for advertising purposes.

The rules, which hadn’t yet gone into effect, were viewed as one of former FCC Chairman Tom Wheeler’s top accomplishments during his tenure.

The US Senate voted 50-48 along party lines to overturn the ruling in late March with the House of Representatives turning in a similar partisan line vote of 215 to 205 less than a week later. The final step in the process was a signature from President Trump which he doled out on Monday.

Shortly after Congress’ decision, AT&T, Comcast and Verizon came forward to proclaim that they do not sell customers’ web browsing history. Some even pinned the blame for such practices on others.

Robert Quinn, Senior Executive Vice President for External and Legislative Affairs at AT&T, said that companies that collect and use the most customer information on the Internet aren’t the ISPs but others including operating system providers, web browsers, search engines and social media platforms. The proposed FCC rules, he added, had literally nothing to do with such companies and their practices which echoed the concerns of most Republicans.

Privacy groups like the Electronic Frontier Foundation and the ACLU, meanwhile, argued that without the regulations in place, it would be easier for companies to sell private information regarding multiple facets of users’ lives including health and finances.

Image courtesy Olivier Douliery-Pool, Getty Images

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Since a "Right to Privacy" does not specifically exist in the constitution there is little that can be done but, the surprise is that in the Jeffersonian papers there are many references to such a right. It's rather strange that such language was omitted, of course the founding fathers idea of WiFi was the town crier .....
 
So if the big ISPs don't want to sell our info then why the heck is this even happening?

Several years down the road when we learn about those big ISPs doing shady stuff with our data they can reference this and be cleared of any wrong doing.

Just another step towards revoking any virtual privacy we have. Other than politicians, advertisers and ISPs, who does this benefit? And the better question - How do we have THAT many politicians in office who are willing to sell us out?
 
Both sides will sell their own children just for political and economic gain. I couldn't care less about this. What I do online is already known. Be it the ISP, the distant end or something in between. If you don't want your "bad habits" known, don't do them. It's much like the argument of if you don't want to be followed by the police don't fit the profile or do anything illegal. Put as little on line as possible so the most they can do is give you crap ads. This isn't the end of the world and it was going to happen sooner or later.
 
Both sides will sell their own children just for political and economic gain. I couldn't care less about this. What I do online is already known. Be it the ISP, the distant end or something in between. If you don't want your "bad habits" known, don't do them. It's much like the argument of if you don't want to be followed by the police don't fit the profile or do anything illegal. Put as little on line as possible so the most they can do is give you crap ads. This isn't the end of the world and it was going to happen sooner or later.
I guess you have not seen this then - http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/are-we-safer/suspicious-activity/ Take, for instance, one item on this list of "suspicious activity" - Joggers who stand and stretch for an inordinate amount of time. Define inordinate -
 
I do not understand what you are trying to say with that article. Yes, there are points under the LAPD that are kind of dumb, but overall, this is what security forces are taught from experiences. Having served and been to many, many counter terrorism briefs and realistic training evolutions, there is a reason for this. If you are trying to draw a connection between the police following you and suspicious activity, then you have done so correctly, but you seem to ignore the reason why they do such things. In LA it is very possible for a "jogger" to be gathering intelligence on a famous person's home or them. Remember LA has a history of stalker cases where someone was either assaulted or killed. I am not justifying every case someone has been maybe harassed by the police, but that is what courts and judges are for. It is not the fault of the LAPD for the way this is written, you can thank the lawyers.
 
Both sides will sell their own children just for political and economic gain. I couldn't care less about this. What I do online is already known. Be it the ISP, the distant end or something in between. If you don't want your "bad habits" known, don't do them. It's much like the argument of if you don't want to be followed by the police don't fit the profile or do anything illegal. Put as little on line as possible so the most they can do is give you crap ads. This isn't the end of the world and it was going to happen sooner or later.

I place way more value on privacy than you do, clearly. It's not necessarily about bad habits being found out...it's a matter of "is this sh*t really necessary?". No, it's absolutely 100% not.

And if a lack of privacy doesn't upset you, how about politicians being paid huge amounts of money to vote against protecting your privacy? They are literally being paid to sell you and me out.
 
I place way more value on privacy than you do, clearly. It's not necessarily about bad habits being found out...it's a matter of "is this sh*t really necessary?". No, it's absolutely 100% not.

And if a lack of privacy doesn't upset you, how about politicians being paid huge amounts of money to vote against protecting your privacy? They are literally being paid to sell you and me out.

No, I do not value privacy. Where is privacy today? Neighbors looking over fences, your online presence (social media), your phone number, your mailing address. So long as someone isn't coming in my house and I can shut the curtains and lock my doors, that is the extent of my privacy and my care for it. I care about my credit score, social security number, birth cert, and work history. However, that is now known as soon as I bought a house (albeit not my social, but that was found with the OPM breach). I agree it is not necessary as well.

You want to talk about politicians getting paid huge amounts for voting against protecting my privacy? How about paying politicians for making laws about who can use what bathroom or me owning a firearm? Or for working for less than 6mo out of the year. Getting near half a million dollars for being lazy arguing sh*ts is complete BS to me. Yet the "people" keep electing the same ones over and over! How about we get them the hell out and replace them with people who will work their *** off for less than half what they currently get because they understand the position they are in is a public service and they should consider it an honor to represent their state or whatever. Instead they think themselves Pharaoh and above the law or that what they pass doesn't apply to them. Those things I find WAY more important than my privacy. My privacy can in an instant take a back seat when the rest of the nation is concerned.
 
Those things I find WAY more important than my privacy. My privacy can in an instant take a back seat when the rest of the nation is concerned.

I agree with this, absolutely. The privacy thing I view as unnecessary. Sold-out politicians and and how they got there is appalling.
 
Both sides will sell their own children just for political and economic gain. I couldn't care less about this. What I do online is already known. Be it the ISP, the distant end or something in between. If you don't want your "bad habits" known, don't do them. It's much like the argument of if you don't want to be followed by the police don't fit the profile or do anything illegal. Put as little on line as possible so the most they can do is give you crap ads. This isn't the end of the world and it was going to happen sooner or later.

I place way more value on privacy than you do, clearly. It's not necessarily about bad habits being found out...it's a matter of "is this sh*t really necessary?". No, it's absolutely 100% not.

And if a lack of privacy doesn't upset you, how about politicians being paid huge amounts of money to vote against protecting your privacy? They are literally being paid to sell you and me out.

There has been no change to how things were two weeks ago...the rules were NEW ones, not something in effect already. Politicians are only concerned with law...and right now (and for a long time now) the law says your right to privacy ends in public...and the internet has always been public space.
 
I do not understand what you are trying to say with that article. Yes, there are points under the LAPD that are kind of dumb, but overall, this is what security forces are taught from experiences. Having served and been to many, many counter terrorism briefs and realistic training evolutions, there is a reason for this. If you are trying to draw a connection between the police following you and suspicious activity, then you have done so correctly, but you seem to ignore the reason why they do such things. In LA it is very possible for a "jogger" to be gathering intelligence on a famous person's home or them. Remember LA has a history of stalker cases where someone was either assaulted or killed. I am not justifying every case someone has been maybe harassed by the police, but that is what courts and judges are for. It is not the fault of the LAPD for the way this is written, you can thank the lawyers.
The point is that suspicious activity is a matter of perspective, and that there are databases that are used to record instances of suspicious activity because someone reported an instance of what they viewed as suspicious. This happens in a much wider context than just LA. As I understand it, once you are in one of those databases, then it is nearly impossible to get out. Thus, you are guilty without being proven guilty, and without having committed a crime, nor without even a proven intent. This is justice?

Personally, it seems that paranoia has become rampant, and everywhere, there are rules that sacrifice individual liberty at the expense of paranoia. A jogger stopping and stretching somewhere is not evidence of terrorist activity - even if that same jogger takes the same route every day and stops at the same place and stretches every day, and even if that place happens to be near or around a valued location.

And yes, I get that there are high value people and landmarks out there; however, that still does not make that jogger a terrorist.

So what is the guidance in this case? Someone calls the police on the jogger, and the police take a report that the jogger was engaging in suspicious activity even though there was no other intent than to stay healthy. Now that jogger is in a database of having engaged in suspicious activity, and may never be able to get out of it. Do the police then tell the jogger to jog somewhere else? And if so, where might that "somewhere else" be? Just as easily, the jogger could take a different route and stretch on that different route and someone could inform the police that that very same jogger is engaging in suspicious activity. Now are the police called again, and this time, maybe they arrest the jogger because the jogger is already in their database of suspicious persons? So we sacrifice individual liberty to catch the infinitesimally small percentage of the population that may be terrorists?

So how does this tie back to the article? Because, as I see it, outlawing this rule is one more instance where those in power have decided to sacrifice privacy for whatever reason. Yes, I get that the rules that were outlawed had not yet taken place; however, from my viewpoint, I view what is done online as private unless, such as posting here, one chooses to do that in a public context.

If ISPs decide that they are going to sell this info to interested parties and ISPs decide that they are also going to redirect traffic to sites for pay, then the internet becomes useless.

As far as we know, there are no rules to prevent this, and if net neutrality is overturned, which has been promised, then what will stop ISPs from doing things like redirecting traffic to where they are getting paid to redirect it? As I see it, such actions are the definition of piracy, and overriding rules like these legalizes that piracy.

The internet, even with all the garbage that exists on it, does have some very useful sites. However, with the way things are heading, the internet is becoming less and less useful over time. Already, search engines assume you want to buy something if you search for it when that may not be the case.
 
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There has been no change to how things were two weeks ago...the rules were NEW ones, not something in effect already. Politicians are only concerned with law...and right now (and for a long time now) the law says your right to privacy ends in public...and the internet has always been public space.
I disagree. Here in this context? Yes, its public, but in every context, no, unless you consider that your online banking activity, purchase activity, and other similar actions are public.
 
I'm sorry Wiyosaya, it appears to me how you put it above that you are paranoid as well about what the police can and can't do and you assume the worst about most things. You appear to not take into account that it is up to the cops discretion in investigating the suspicious person that will determine weather or not the individual makes it to that DB. Everything has to be taken into consideration on ANY subject to make an educated decision. Jumping to conclusions is no different than assuming, and you know what assume means (yet so may continue to do it). I am not going to get into a drawn out off topic discussion about police matters as I am not a cop and can't speak with any certainty that what I am saying is fact.

We can thank terrorism and our governments unwillingness to do something about it years ago. We can thank our greed for the corruption we have, but since we can't do anything about that in a civil matter I am going to move on to the subject more.

As to your points on ISPs, how is that any different than TV? We get bombarded by ads and crap shoved down our throats in the name of entertainment. Our economy revolves heavily on consumerism. The internet has become just another medium for them to sell more stuff. It was going to happen. Net Neutrality will eventually be overturned. If not in the near future, it will happen to another generation. I don't want that to happen, so when it comes to vote, I will do my part, that is the most I can do.

We are sacrificing liberty everyday. Be it the debate on gun control, free speech, the internet, immigration or otherwise. The masses of humanity is ignorant and will continue to be so as long as those with an agenda get to call the shots and we as a people sit idly by and let it happen. It doesn't have to be violent, but such drastic changes of direction usually require it, sadly. I do not like the current state of the union and it can never go back to the "way it was." All we can do is make the best of what we have and when opportunity to change it is available, we jump on it as a whole. Sorry I went back off topic at the end here. We see this subject differently and see privacy differently. I think it best to leave it at that. I do value and appreciate your comments and it does give me something to think about.
 
I'm sorry Wiyosaya, it appears to me how you put it above that you are paranoid as well about what the police can and can't do and you assume the worst about most things. You appear to not take into account that it is up to the cops discretion in investigating the suspicious person that will determine weather or not the individual makes it to that DB. Everything has to be taken into consideration on ANY subject to make an educated decision. Jumping to conclusions is no different than assuming, and you know what assume means (yet so may continue to do it). I am not going to get into a drawn out off topic discussion about police matters as I am not a cop and can't speak with any certainty that what I am saying is fact.
That is my point. How does anyone define suspicious activity? There is no standard, and, as such, people get classified as suspicious based on specious determinations. Maybe, just maybe some of those determinations are correct, however, I suspect that most are not, and those that are not do cause problems for those who have been classified as engaging in suspicious activity. I see it as similar to Ted Kennedy being on the no-fly list. Now based on your political viewpoint, perhaps you view that as a good thing; however, I suspect that I have made my point.

We can thank terrorism and our governments unwillingness to do something about it years ago. We can thank our greed for the corruption we have, but since we can't do anything about that in a civil matter I am going to move on to the subject more.
I do not agree. As I see it, since the attacks of September 11, 2001 our government has been doing an excellent job of rooting out terrorist activities and preventing attacks. The few that have succeeded have been fomented by people already within our borders with some of them claiming religion as their motive. Perhaps only with the most stringent oversight of literally everyone, those people would have been caught, and even those agencies that have been charged with protecting the nation have admitted there are cases that are not preventable. To guarantee that all attacks are preventable is fallacy - no matter who is in the white house.

Not to mention - London has a plethora of security cameras, however, has that prevented all attacks? It would be no different here.

As to your points on ISPs, how is that any different than TV? We get bombarded by ads and crap shoved down our throats in the name of entertainment. Our economy revolves heavily on consumerism. The internet has become just another medium for them to sell more stuff. It was going to happen. Net Neutrality will eventually be overturned. If not in the near future, it will happen to another generation. I don't want that to happen, so when it comes to vote, I will do my part, that is the most I can do.
I also have to disagree here also.

With TV, you can switch the channel, time-shift and skip commercials, turn the volume down, etc.

However, most areas in the US are served by an ISP that has a monopoly in the area. Areas that have a choice are few and far between. Now you might argue that you could go through a cellular hot spot - however - to switch to another cellular ISP is a major job. It is nothing like switching a channel. Simply put, people cannot switch ISPs as simply as switching channels, and in the majority of areas, there is no other ISP.


Absolutely, I will definitely continue vote.

We are sacrificing liberty everyday. Be it the debate on gun control, free speech, the internet, immigration or otherwise. The masses of humanity is ignorant and will continue to be so as long as those with an agenda get to call the shots and we as a people sit idly by and let it happen. It doesn't have to be violent, but such drastic changes of direction usually require it, sadly. I do not like the current state of the union and it can never go back to the "way it was." All we can do is make the best of what we have and when opportunity to change it is available, we jump on it as a whole. Sorry I went back off topic at the end here. We see this subject differently and see privacy differently. I think it best to leave it at that. I do value and appreciate your comments and it does give me something to think about.
I cannot agree on violence as a path of action, however, I also will not sit back and let it happen. There are things over which we have no control, and some things that are not preventable no matter how much effort is put into prevention. I do appreciate your opinions.
 
"As I see it, since the attacks of September 11, 2001 our government has been doing an excellent job of rooting out terrorist activities and preventing attacks."

I was going back further than that. Bill Clinton had the opportunity to strike at Bin Laden during his presidency and chose not to because a Saudi prince was with him. That one kill would of prevented 9 terrorist attacks made by Al-Qaida before Sept 11. Just FYI.

We disagree, that is well and good, thank you for being civil throughout the thread. Feel free to send me a conversation message if you want to continue, I just feel this thread isn't really the place for in depth discussion.
 
I'm sorry Wiyosaya, it appears to me how you put it above that you are paranoid as well about what the police can and can't do and you assume the worst about most things.
What are we to think when here in our state it is against the law to film police? We can't protect ourselves from any damages they may ensue because of one stupid law. A law that is designed to protect only them, regardless of any wrong doing.
 
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