Ques of cpu cooling.

[thissiterocks]

hi.
first i gotta say "thissiterocks" then secondly my question..

i already read the stick, but want more pointer

recently i got my crystal orb, after all the advices from this forum, it turned out to be perfect it worked...blahblah... but suddently another villain has risen in the midst of all the ide cables of my computer... the cpu hsf.

basically i was in bios, and checking out temperatures playing with my 12 inch fan, pointed at the back of the mobo, with the case of my comp off, and the temp of the cpu plummeted from 51 (idle) to 40. soo i went and reported it to friends and stuff... how 12" fans are good

they told me that 51* C for the cpu was too hot for an idle computer... so i'm back here. after confirming this from a few other people..
its not even o/ced.

i need a new hsf cause the retail one that came with my computer is crappy :dead: , its somethign like cdidso brand...

so now the question is what hsf is best for my computer.. initially i'd go for the volcano 7+, but found out that the volcano 9 was even cheaper at one of the stores (i don't mind the noise too much of the fans)

but at a site, i noticed how somebody said that the athlon xp's got thinner by 1 mm, and by trying to install a hsf for athlon xp's on a thunderbird (which are 1mm thicker) you have more chances of crushing your cpu.. is this true??

and secondly... this person says that the tt dragon orb, is what a person with a thunderbird should get, because its meant for it.

should i get a dragon orb, or one of the volcano's... i think i really need that much air flow...

and another question... since its my first time messign around with cpu's... what are the chances that i might squish my cpu...

what are your tips... have patience. if it ain't going in.. don't squish it??

and one last question... if i was to dig a hole in the side of my computer, and stick a fan in there... it should be an intake and right beside the cpu... so this outer fan feeds the cpu hsf/?? right?

and please give me all your advices/pointer while changing cpu's?
i'm scared the pants outta me, from changing them... i've messed around with school celerons, but them are school 133 celerons if you break one.. grab another one.

since its my first time, do you recomment useing shims?? they're 15 buck

thanks guys... and gals... if any, don't know.

btw, how do i take the hsf off???

an

 

[Rick]

As always, welcome to the forum.

There are a number of things you can do to lower your temperatures without getting a new HSF, but I'll talk about that in a moment.

First, I'm guessing you have an Athlon T-bird. What speed is it? Can you give anymore info?

Several things factor into CPU temperature aside from the HSF - Ambient temperatures, case airflow and usage.

It's summertime, and (depending where you live) many of us folks in the nothern hemisphere get hotter CPU temperatures as a side effect. The difference in the temperature in your room can make as much as 10*C difference for your CPU temp. The temperature of the air around your computer is called "ambient" temperature and can make temperature readings vary greatly from room to room.

Next, your chassis temperature is usually a reflection of the ambient temperature. This is also a good indicator of how effiicient your case cooling is. This is the temperature inside of the case. You find out what the difference is between your chassis temperature and your CPU temperature. Many modern systems include a chassis temperature sending diode that will report the system temperature in programs and in the BIOS. The cooler the air inside of your case, the cooler your CPU temperature will be. Making your system run cooler may be as simple as adding another case fan. Ideally, you should have 2 or more case fans (One in the front, and one in the back, typically). Many power supplies have fans built in that suck the air out of the case as well.

Your CPU temperature will reflect the chassis temperature greatly, as it relies on the surrounding air very much. If the air inside your case is 50* C, then your CPU fan is nearly useless because it is just blowing hot air on your CPU. It's important to have a decent case temperature.

If your CPU temperature is equal or close to your case temperature, than your heatsink is working very well. Also, if there is little difference between idle (Lowest CPU temp) and load (Highest CPU temp) temperatures for your CPU, then your HSF is doing an excellent job. "Little difference" could be described as something like 5*C difference from idle and load... Nothing big. This means your CPU is not retaining much heat and your HSF is not having a hard time blowing the heat off of your heastsink... This is a good thing.

If you have.. Say.. 10*C difference or more, then you should be able to do better, but it should be sufficient. 15*C or more of a difference between idle/load is a sign of a bad HSF in my opinion and it should be replaced with a better HSF.

Here's some things you should try before buying a new HSF:

• Clean the dust off of your heatsink. This lowered my temperature from 59*C to 49* under load.

• Add thermal paste. If you don't have thermal paste already on it, then it is time to add some. This can knock off a couple of C* on your temperatures. If you do have thermal paste, clean it off and reapply some.

• Make sure your heatsink is fitted tightly and properly against the CPU. Make sure no clamps are lose and the fan is square against the heatsink. The tighter the fit, the better.

• Add a new case fan if your case temps are significantly higher than your room temperature. This can cool down a CPU as much as 5-10*C usually.




As for squishing your CPU, it is unlikely - I'd still excercise caution however.

The problem you have mentioned was caused by heatsink manufacturers not designing their heatsinks properly to fit the T-bird. The corners of the processor would get crushed by applying uneven force to the CPU. Avoid heatsinks that "twist on" and designs that with super strong clips that leverage a lot of weight on one side while putting it on.

I'm pretty sure any heatsinks designed for the XP should fit fine on the Thunderbird. Usually, heatsinks fit multiple processors (Like the entire AMD Athlon series) for example. I would not recommend the Dragon Orb however. Actually, Thermaltake was the first manufacturer to be blamed for making "T-bird crushers". :blackeye: Their orbs were infamous for this.. I imagine they have changed their design since though.

The reason I would not recommend the Dragon Orb has nothing to do with it potentially crushing your CPU (I haven't heard any problems out of it). The reason is that it is expensive, noisy, bulky and honestly doesn't deliver the cooling power it should. You might want to stay away from the orb design all together - They are more for looks than performance.

I'd recommend something made from copper, like the SK-6 (Personal experience with this one). The Thermalright SK-6 (with the 7200RPM fan on it) is still one of the best HSFs around in my opinion. Alphas and Volcanoes are quite popular too.

If you want to hear some reader opnions on HSFs, then check out this thread:
http://www.3dspotlight.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=420

There are also many HSF roundups out there that compare dozens of HSFs against eachother. Anandtech.com and Dansdata.com have some good articles. Techspot has one too, I believe.

 

[thissiterocks]

thanks... nice explanation.. i do actually need more case fans, i only have one outtake, and a psu fan... i wanted to put it in from an old psu, but i don't have a soldering gun...

well, i actually listened to your advice, and i did a major undercover operation... my dad thinks i know nothing about computers... while still in my room hidden away, i took apart just about everything. and moved the psu wired going to things, around the main "S" air flow pattern that i hear so much about, i took my ide cables, and carefully, split them with my exactoknight after every4 wires, and bundled them together... moved wiring behind the parts...

so, my geforce 2 went from 50 (with crystal orb) all the way to 46.
my system went from 55+ to 49
my cpu has gone to 45 from 50

all this ambient. and it is warmer than yesterday too

but i'm thinking of applying some asIII.. just thinking. if i'm gonna do it. might as well put a new heatsink...

thanks for advice.. really helped...

i also took my stock asus vga fan, and put it in the middle to cause an updrift of hot air.

 

[thissiterocks]

here's my specs
in my signature, and location is vancouver... hot today.

 

[uncleel]

Rick must be home from work today, because his posts are so complete that there's nothing left to be said. Your well w/i temperature limits.

• 
  AMD Thermal Solutions
  Quote AMD: The maximum die temperatures
• 90°C for frequencies up to 1000 MHz
• 95°C for frequencies above 1000 MHz

 

[Rick]

Originally posted by uncleel
Rick must be home from work today, because his posts are so complete that there's nothing left to be said. Your well w/i temperature limits.

Why thanks Unc. Truth is, I miss giving good replies. I've been so busy lately that I've neglected the board somewhat.

 

[Supra]

I've got a Volcano 7+ and on full load cpu runs about 50C with the cpu fan set on low speed and a case temp of 40C. If I turn the Volcano fan to medium it drops to about 44C and on high it can drop it to 40C. I am still trying to figure out the best fan setup for my new case so I can get the case temp to drop. Right now I've got 2 80mm intake fans and one of those HDD coolers in a drive bay without a HDD in it in the front and for exhaust the 2 fans in the psu and 1 more 80mm right below it. The case has enough blowholes to add 7 more 80mm fans and 2 120mm fans

 

[Phantasm66]

Originally posted by Supra
The case has enough blowholes to add 7 more 80mm fans and 2 120mm fans

Ouch! Try living with that running 24/7 in your bedroom. Already my machine is doing my head in with its 400W PSU and 2 case fans, CPU fan, etc, etc, etc....

7 would represent excellent airflow if you positioned them correctly, but the noise would be insane.

 

[Nick]

Seriously, one of the best cooling solutions is an air conditioner. People put wayyyyy too much into fans when all they really need is a cooler room. I can see if you have a really cool room with an ac in it and your computer is still very hot.

My cpu has gone from 57*c to 35*c just from an air conditioner.

And that is an amd xp 1600 ;/

 

[Phantasm66]

That's a very interesting post, Nick.

Fortunately (or rather unfortunately) I don't really have that problem because in Scotland we get about 2 weeks of sunshine per year and then its back to wind, cold and rain again.

 

[StormBringer]

I have mentioned before that I installed an extra vent from my central AC unit in this room to help with the heat problem, it didn't lower the system temp by much, but it did cool the room a good deal. The fans in my case are positioned to creat a wind tunnel effect which pretty much erraticates the heat and replaces it with the cool air in the room, the problem was that the cool air in the room was quickly replaced by the hot air from the case.

The extra vent cured this problem and while it didn't lower the temp by much, just a couple of degrees C, it did stabilize the temp and make the room cooler.

I'm thinking of ducting the exhaust from my case to the outside of the house and see if that would help even more.

 

[thissiterocks]

thanks for all the replys

ok so i've got the cash no to get a real kick butt hsf...

only problem is now that i've been exposed to the many different companies that make em... and i'm still leaning towards the tt...

but i'm not sure whether to get the volcano 7+ or the volcano 9

my main use for it is gonna be to get this t-bird 1.3 with a fsb or 100 to at least fsb of 133 and get the ghz as high as possible with stability...

but another recent event has made me change my mind...

at the end of the review of my current retail hsf that came with the cmoputer... it says that the potential of teh heatsink can only be found with a good fan...

http://www.modthebox.com/review84_1.html

so today... after very careful bangin of the screw driver on both sides of teh clips... i've soon figured the side without the cpu exposed to screw driver's blow was teh clip i had to take of ... i put some ac3 on the core and it seems the temp dropped 4-6 degrees...

so now instead of a volcano... i just wanted to know if it would be a good idea of i got a 60 mm to a 80 mm converter and put a smart tt case fan that can give around 80 cfm or airflow on it??

which would give me better performance... or atleast for the buck...

volcano 7+ on sale 40 CND
convertor 15 CND = seems expensive... its just a piece of metal...
tt smart fan = 25 bucks

its the same price... if i can find the convertor cheaper (caus3 i think its pretty expensive its just a piece of aluminum) the homemade recepy should be better... or no??

btw, if the home made won't be good...

is the volcano 7+ better or the volcano 9 for the circumstances that i need it for...

and one more question... is the little heatsink with the letters ECS on it my fsb controller... cause i heard that's what i gotta put a heatsink on for me to o/c..

 

[Per Hansson]

on www.1coolpc.com a funnel will not set you back by more than 10$...

They have excellent customer support to, send Bart a mail and he will get back to you in five minutes, I've ordered from them countless times and never had any problems...