Star Citizen crosses $1 billion in crowdfunding as Chris Roberts eyes version 1.0

[Rapob]

Endless money sink.

 

[Kirby1]

Such small brain comments here. The game has increased scope because it's literally the largest crowd funded project of any kind, ever. Not hard to understand why their development was affected by that.

But for whatever reason the average user here is just a hater on basically everything, as usual.

 

[Puiu]

Oh? Has he finally left gamers high and dry without delivering any part of the epic space sim that has made considerable progress on over the last 13+ years?

Or are you not able to use the word "scam" by it's definition, and are just bandwagonning?

Lets stop watering down the word already and be intellectually honest on this tech forum...

Like it or not SC is the definition of a scam.

 

[Puiu]

Such small brain comments here. The game has increased scope because it's literally the largest crowd funded project of any kind, ever. Not hard to understand why their development was affected by that.

But for whatever reason the average user here is just a hater on basically everything, as usual.

The average user knows how to spot a scam when they see one. The rest pay.

The increase in scope is just an excuse to not release the game and dry out people who are too invested to quit because of the sunken cost fallacy. In its current state it will take another decade for them to get out of alpha and that beta build will still be broken because of spaghetti code that will be 2-3 decades old. I don't ever see them releasing an 1.0 version beyond the usual: "we ran out of money, here's what we have for a week before we close the servers".

Hell, shortly after the $1 bil milestone they announced another $5000 ship YOU CANNOT FLY in-game. It's another scammy "limited vehicle concept pledge" BS.

It's all just a scam. They cannot finish this "game", not without gutting at least half of the features they added to the "increased scope" and clearly can't make them work in a reasonable time and budget.

 

[Kirby1]

The average user knows how to spot a scam when they see one. The rest pay.

The increase in scope is just an excuse to not release the game and dry out people who are too invested to quit because of the sunken cost fallacy. In its current state it will take another decade for them to get out of alpha and that beta build will still be broken because of spaghetti code that will be 2-3 decades old. I don't ever see them releasing an 1.0 version beyond the usual: "we ran out of money, here's what we have for a week before we close the servers".

Hell, shortly after the $1 bil milestone they announced another $5000 ship YOU CANNOT FLY in-game. It's another scammy "limited vehicle concept pledge" BS.

It's all just a scam. They cannot finish this "game", not without gutting at least half of the features they added to the "increased scope" and clearly can't make them work in a reasonable time and budget.

Game not out yet, must be scam.

Wow what a unique take you have.

 

[wiyosaya]

No… read carefully… I said it IS a scam. It’s just not “legally” a scam. It WAS a scam legally at first though - they had to change their EUL and actually refunded some angry scammed users years back… they’ve gotten clever since, and have avoided (for now) having to refund anyone else.

If it were a scam and there were enough complaints, I'm sure any number of US State or US DOJs have a team of creative enough lawyers, either on their own or combined, that they would be able to poke enough holes in SIGs TOS that they could convince a jury of the fact that it is a scam. Yet this hasn't happened. Why?

A TOS that literally says "we can scam you and there's nothing you can do about it" is, itself, not legal.

But murder is still murder - even if you are found “not guilty” in court. OJ, rest in peace

Nice strawman there, but it doesn't apply to this situation.

 

[Rudyduu]

Sure it will release but only when they find Jimmy Hoffa.

Oh and I have a bridge in Brooklyn for sale.

It's not like people can't play what they've worked on already. I just don't get it. It's not as if they are promising something with no or very little work to show either. I haven't put any money into it so I have no skin the game, but I don't think anyone was under the impression their money is just gone with nothing to show for it.

 

[Squid Surprise]

If it were a scam and there were enough complaints, I'm sure any number of US State or US DOJs have a team of creative enough lawyers, either on their own or combined, that they would be able to poke enough holes in SIGs TOS that they could convince a jury of the fact that it is a scam. Yet this hasn't happened. Why?

Because, as I already said, it’s “legally” not a scam. They’ve altered their EUL (after previously being forced to refund cash to people) so that this is the case.

A TOS that literally says "we can scam you and there's nothing you can do about it" is, itself, not legal.

lol, I never said that. The EUL was changed to make payments “donations”. This SHOULD be a red flag to most, as this is what illegal private servers of various games get around lawsuits by doing - not to mention avoid taxes.

Nice strawman there, but it doesn't apply to this situation.

Actually, it’s merely a method of making my point : just because something is technically legal doesn’t make it “right”.

Many things fly under the courts radars as they’re technically legal - or it’s too costly to sue…

But just THINK for a second. Is there a AAA game that asks for a $5000 payment? For ANYTHING?!?

This game - which is UNFINISHED - is asking for $5000 for a ship that you can’t even use yet!

I could get a real used car for that money!

 

[Rudyduu]

The average user knows how to spot a scam when they see one. The rest pay.

The increase in scope is just an excuse to not release the game and dry out people who are too invested to quit because of the sunken cost fallacy. In its current state it will take another decade for them to get out of alpha and that beta build will still be broken because of spaghetti code that will be 2-3 decades old. I don't ever see them releasing an 1.0 version beyond the usual: "we ran out of money, here's what we have for a week before we close the servers".

Hell, shortly after the $1 bil milestone they announced another $5000 ship YOU CANNOT FLY in-game. It's another scammy "limited vehicle concept pledge" BS.

It's all just a scam. They cannot finish this "game", not without gutting at least half of the features they added to the "increased scope" and clearly can't make them work in a reasonable time and budget.

It's a scam game, because people can't play the game they paid for until it's out of alpha, right?

 

[Squid Surprise]

It's a scam game, because people can't play the game they paid for until it's out of alpha, right?

Because it’s “technically” playable, it doesn’t meet the legal definition of a scam… but it ISN’T playable as it was promised to be - and almost certainly never will be.

 

[Northy]

The Scientology of computer games, gotta love it for the grift at least.

 

[Gezzer]

Is Chris Roberts scamming all us backers (myself included). I don't think he is, he might have others on the team from the early days that are encouraging his "grand vision" with the hidden motivation of leaving the backers high and dry as they head off with the cash. But CR IMHO is a horse of a different colour.

He's a dreamer who dreams really big and then due to promising things that can't be easily delivered, then micromanaging the project to death so it keeps bogging things down we reach the point where we're currently at. But more importantly it's more of a hybrid than a real alpha.

In normal game development a large portion of things developed are scrapped as the direction of the project changes. The game we receive is never the game that was envisioned at the very start. That's why everything is bare bones and unpolished. Releasing builds to the backers means they need to be polished and reasonably stable. If a build caused us to have to reinstall our OS every other release it'd be a disaster. With a normal alpha it's a common occurrence.

Now think of all the things that were released in a fairly high polished state that aren't really needed or utilized. Did we really need to wake in an apartment and then slog to a tram stop and ride the tram to the spaceport? Not at all and in a normal alpha that experience would be left till near the end if at all. Fact is we now spawn in our hangers which was the original design.

So is it a scam? I don't think so. Is it a poorly managed project that is hog tied by a person who's "vision" is simply out of reach and his hubris makes it impossible for him to admit that he's out of his depth? I think that's much more likely the actual reality. Doesn't mean that it can't or won't crash and burn. It's just as likely either way.

 

[yannus]

Not a gamer, but TBH if I were one, that would be the game I'd play. It looks absolutely amazing. Why would anyone pay for a game with such a reputation, if they didn't enjoy it.

 

[Squid Surprise]

Not a gamer, but TBH if I were one, that would be the game I'd play. It looks absolutely amazing. Why would anyone pay for a game with such a reputation, if they didn't enjoy it.

They’d pay because they think (wrongly) that it WILL be enjoyable… and once you’ve spent hundreds (or thousands), you don’t think you can afford not to believe it… even as the years roll by and it becomes more and more obvious you’ve been hoodwinked.

 

[GFitzpatrick47]

Because, as I already said, it’s “legally” not a scam. They’ve altered their EUL (after previously being forced to refund cash to people) so that this is the case.

lol, I never said that. The EUL was changed to make payments “donations”. This SHOULD be a red flag to most, as this is what illegal private servers of various games get around lawsuits by doing - not to mention avoid taxes.

Actually, it’s merely a method of making my point : just because something is technically legal doesn’t make it “right”.

Many things fly under the courts radars as they’re technically legal - or it’s too costly to sue…

But just THINK for a second. Is there a AAA game that asks for a $5000 payment? For ANYTHING?!?

This game - which is UNFINISHED - is asking for $5000 for a ship that you can’t even use yet!

I could get a real used car for that money!

You undercut your last point severely by focusing on the enormity of the number and not what you're actually getting/not getting, which should be the point.

If the company makes it clear that the "item" is not usable in-game, and is essentially a way of showing how much you want to support development/show off your riches, so what? They're making that clear upfront. Just because there's potentially a market for stupid people with more money than sense doesn't make what they're doing a scam, no more than people who purchase higher-priced editions of games specifically for baubles/collectibles that have no in-game use or relevance (and are collectible only in the sense that not every version is gonna have them, no objective rarity or utility).

This is especially true in the videogame space. Having played a number of games myself (particularly MMOs), the amount of real-world money spent on **** that has little to no usability in the game is mind-boggling, and very few of those instances would fall into the category of a scam.

So no, while I can't immediately think of a game that asks for $5k upfront, I can certainly name a few where those amounts are routinely spent either directly or indirectly (EVE Online, a game I played, immediately comes to mind). We needn't even mention games like Diablo 3 and the Counter-Strike skins market.

 

[Squid Surprise]

You undercut your last point severely by focusing on the enormity of the number and not what you're actually getting/not getting, which should be the point.

You didn’t read the whole thing

If the company makes it clear that the "item" is not usable in-game, and is essentially a way of showing how much you want to support development/show off your riches, so what? They're making that clear upfront. Just because there's potentially a market for stupid people with more money than sense doesn't make what they're doing a scam, no more than people who purchase higher-priced editions of games specifically for baubles/collectibles that have no in-game use or relevance (and are collectible only in the sense that not every version is gonna have them, no objective rarity or utility).

They didn’t - they claim that you WILL be able to use the ship in game… eventually… but if you don’t buy it now, you’ll never get it… THAT is what a scam is all about.

This is especially true in the videogame space. Having played a number of games myself (particularly MMOs), the amount of real-world money spent on **** that has little to no usability in the game is mind-boggling, and very few of those instances would fall into the category of a scam.

Yes, but you at least get SOMETHING when you spend your money - even if it’s a ripoff…

So no, while I can't immediately think of a game that asks for $5k upfront, I can certainly name a few where those amounts are routinely spent either directly or indirectly (EVE Online, a game I played, immediately comes to mind). We needn't even mention games like Diablo 3 and the Counter-Strike skins market.

Yes - but that’s over time. And everything you pay for actually shows up in a timely manner… whether it’s “worth it” is a completely different story.

 

[wiyosaya]

and almost certainly never will be.

Did your 8-ball tell you that?

 

[wiyosaya]

I "invested" $400 years ago. I stopped. If others don't have the foresight to stop, that's their problem, especially if they pay for something that is outright noted that it does not exist yet in-game.

I've never really played, but I've kept track of things from time to time. There have been many ships that were just concepts that people paid for AND have eventually been delivered.

My main complaint is that there is a BIG learning curve to play the game. However, there's plenty of help available.

TBH, I have no idea if either SQ-42, which my pledge got me as well as SC, or SC will ever be delivered in "final" form. Even if there is a V1.0 of either, chances are both will continue being developed, IMO.

Strike Commander, another Roberts game, had add-on mission packs. It would not surprise me if Roberts intends to keep on adding to the SC universe if he delivers a V 1.0 game.

From following SC/SQ42, I do know this. Bugs get fixed. If it were a scam, IMO, bugs would not get fixed.

In the meantime, I don't GAS what happens. I'm not spending another dime on it ATM. I've got things that are more important to me to spend my money on. Electrical upgrades for my home, a new "High End" AV-HTR, an astrophotography rig, a new computer build, etc.

If people spend their money on it knowing the controversy and risks, that's their problem.

In the meantime, maybe some AG will come along and find a way to sue, stop production, and make it stick. Right now, $400 is not a significant sum of money FOR ME. It may be for you, and that's OK. I'm not losing any sleep over it.

 

[Squid Surprise]

In the meantime, maybe some AG will come along and find a way to sue, stop production, and make it stick. Right now, $400 is not a significant sum of money FOR ME. It may be for you, and that's OK. I'm not losing any sleep over it.

Just a thought... is $400 a reasonable amount of money to spend on a game? Even a fully finished one? I'm looking at people complaining that GTA6 MIGHT cost $100.... does SC really merit these types of expenditures?

 

[Puiu]

It's a scam game, because people can't play the game they paid for until it's out of alpha, right?

it's a scam because it's not a game, just a broken tech demo that will never be finished.
It's a scam because they made dumb promises they couldn't and still can't keep (and they know this).
It's a scam because of the fact that CIG leadership appropriated money/donations and made themselves rich while telling people that they need more money.

And I can give A LOT more reasons why it factually is a scam. But hey, you are happy to play some tech demos that don't work because of future "fantasy dreams" they are feeding you... pffff hahahahaha

 

[Puiu]

Game not out yet, must be scam.

Wow what a unique take you have.

It's not unique, it's something shared by the vast majority of normal people who just know better after so much time has passed.

 

[wiyosaya]

Just a thought... is $400 a reasonable amount of money to spend on a game? Even a fully finished one? I'm looking at people complaining that GTA6 MIGHT cost $100.... does SC really merit these types of expenditures?

I wouldn't spend $0.01 on GTA 6. Everyone is different. I think it's interesting you don't seem to get that. Anyone pissing and moaning about the cost of GTA 6 has the option not to buy it.

Personally, I could care less what you think of me or my choices.

 

[Squid Surprise]

I wouldn't spend $0.01 on GTA 6. Everyone is different. I think it's interesting you don't seem to get that. Anyone pissing and moaning about the cost of GTA 6 has the option not to buy it.

Personally, I could care less what you think of me or my choices.

lol, I meant it in a general sense… I don’t play GTA either - I picked it as an example because the outcry over its possible exorbitant price is fairly well known… but whatever games you DO play - is $400 (or more) typical?

Cause that would be more than 2 years of WoW - or any other MMORPG… just wondering if actual SC players are actually getting their money’s worth - assuming they haven’t bought the stuff that doesn’t exist…

 

[Kirby1]

It's not unique, it's something shared by the vast majority of normal people who just know better after so much time has passed.

Your take does not equal vast majority opinion, and really anyone who hasn't played is just parroting the opinions of whatever youtuber they watched rant about the game. I'd be willing to guess your algorithm shows you a lot of negative content.

There is already a lot you can do in the game, plenty to be worth the starting cost. I paid $45 for it and nothing more.

For this to be a scam, there would have to be some kind of trickery. You pay for the game, you go into it knowing full well it's in active development, and that it's scope initially widened faster than the devs could build the game (though that period has passed). You get what you paid for. There is no rug pull, no bait and switch. What is CIG gonna do, take away the stuff that already works?

The worst thing that could happen is development stagnates and eventually they are forced to release the game without everything they wanted in it, but if they decided to stop developing the game and just get it to a release state right now, it would be good enough to satisfy expectations.

This isn't HL3 or Duke Nukem where the devs worked on iterations of the game, felt it wasn't good enough, and started over a couple times in a row. SC has been on a continuous dev path from the start. The development never failed or restarted here, it's just a much larger project both in scope and funding than literally everything else, except maybe GTAV.


Unless you have actually played the game and have some specific experiences with it to shape your opinion, the fact that you are this committed to arguing about something you have no first hand experience with says more about your biases than anything in your arguments. It's clear from how much you have said already that you have not played it.

 

[Puiu]

Your take does not equal vast majority opinion, and really anyone who hasn't played is just parroting the opinions of whatever youtuber they watched rant about the game. I'd be willing to guess your algorithm shows you a lot of negative content.

There is already a lot you can do in the game, plenty to be worth the starting cost. I paid $45 for it and nothing more.

For this to be a scam, there would have to be some kind of trickery. You pay for the game, you go into it knowing full well it's in active development, and that it's scope initially widened faster than the devs could build the game (though that period has passed). You get what you paid for. There is no rug pull, no bait and switch. What is CIG gonna do, take away the stuff that already works?

The worst thing that could happen is development stagnates and eventually they are forced to release the game without everything they wanted in it, but if they decided to stop developing the game and just get it to a release state right now, it would be good enough to satisfy expectations.

This isn't HL3 or Duke Nukem where the devs worked on iterations of the game, felt it wasn't good enough, and started over a couple times in a row. SC has been on a continuous dev path from the start. The development never failed or restarted here, it's just a much larger project both in scope and funding than literally everything else, except maybe GTAV.


Unless you have actually played the game and have some specific experiences with it to shape your opinion, the fact that you are this committed to arguing about something you have no first hand experience with says more about your biases than anything in your arguments. It's clear from how much you have said already that you have not played it.

"Your take does not equal vast majority opinion" - in the gaming community? it very much does. in the SC backers bubble? probably not.

"...started over a couple times in a row. SC has been on a continuous dev path from the start." - it literally didn't. do I really need to give you known info on how they switched engines and changed the game's scope?

"There is no rug pull" - I didn't know that scams can only only be rug pulls. and even rug pulls have periods of "bliss" for those who bought into them.

"The worst thing that could happen is development stagnates" - or you know, it continues on forever as an "alpha" that will perpetually be in a "next patch will be it!" situation.

"Unless you have actually played the game" - I obviously have. which is why I'm so disappointed in what CIG has done and why I consider it a scam.

"For this to be a scam, there would have to be some kind of trickery." - yes, it's a scam. they are tricking people into giving them money for something they know they'll never finish. And not finishing IS THE PLAN.

All the while Robert and his "employed" family are eating a million $ for their salary each year, while he had an multi-million $ "IP transfer" and while he also gets yearly dividends as a majority shareholder.