Synology is selling outdated "proprietary" NAS SSDs at unrealistically high prices

[lonetac]

Like I said - I get the prebuilt argument, but the extra the money NAS manufacturers ask for this makes no sense to me. I get that guaranteeing someone's data and software is different than guaranteeing working hardware, but in my eyes they're not the worth it the price these companies are asking.

Also I was specifically talking about NAS for home use these manufacturers advertise these to and not just people who also buy prebuilt PC's too.
I dont see building my own NAS as more complex than building a DIY PC. PC already requires storage and installation and configuration of the OS. Building a NAS is even cheaper.
It could even be an old computer with added storage and different OS.

So personally I would never buy a NAS. If I wanted one I would build it or use my older PC's. Same as with a PC. So when I see my fellow DIY builders speaking about how they bought a NAS I think to myself - bro, you got scammed and scammed hard.

being able to build your own and doing so doesn't make selling a NAS for folks who don't or cant do that a scam.

I hate how ppl use the word scam for everything. its like we have forgotten basic English and just label things with constant hyperbole. As soon as someone's personal preference differs its immediately labeled a scam.

Do yourself a favor and stop falling into this trope. Its hard to take folks serious who do. Respectfully.

 

[RaXelliX]

being able to build your own and doing so doesn't make selling a NAS for folks who don't or cant do that a scam.

It does when those folks are being ripped off by absurd prices for a box without storage. Decent NAS starts at 300€ (quad core, 2x 2.5G LAN) and that's obviously without storage. And most of these quad cores are ancient Zen models from 2017 with DDR4. The number of M.2 NAS's is pretty much around 100. Extra LAN ports or 10G sends the prices into stratosphere (1000€+ for an empty box) despite 10G NIC's costing below 100€ for the longest time.

Like I said in my initial post - prebuilt PC SI's are able to sell full computers with storage included for significantly cheaper prices with much smaller markup. Comparing theirs and DIY build usually only results in a few hundred € difference so their assembly and single point guarantee and support is worth it. And full computers are for more complex machines to build and support because many more things can go wrong. Yet they do it and they're still in business despite "humane" margins.

If people are stupid (I mean with money, not intelligence) and want to pay exorbitant sums for outdated junk then go a head. Just dont expect me to not critique it...

 

[lonetac]

It does when those folks are being ripped off by absurd prices for a box without storage. Decent NAS starts at 300€ (quad core, 2x 2.5G LAN) and that's obviously without storage. And most of these quad cores are ancient Zen models from 2017 with DDR4. The number of M.2 NAS's is pretty much around 100. Extra LAN ports or 10G sends the prices into stratosphere (1000€+ for an empty box) despite 10G NIC's costing below 100€ for the longest time.

Like I said in my initial post - prebuilt PC SI's are able to sell full computers with storage included for significantly cheaper prices with much smaller markup. Comparing theirs and DIY build usually only results in a few hundred € difference so their assembly and single point guarantee and support is worth it. And full computers are for more complex machines to build and support because many more things can go wrong. Yet they do it and they're still in business despite "humane" margins.

If people are stupid (I mean with money, not intelligence) and want to pay exorbitant sums for outdated junk then go a head. Just dont expect me to not critique it...

Just full stop.

Thats not a scam. Its a legitimate product providing legitimate use.

Thats not what the word scam means. You dont get to just label things scam that you dont want to buy.

Its not the english definition of what the word means. So stop using it, it just invalidates anything you say and makes you seem unreasonable.

You are here judging people, calling them stupid but yet dont know what a scam is... cmon man. Do better.

Critiquing is not the same thing as calling something a scam that isnt. Thats more gaslighting than anything and being intentionally misleading. You dont want to buy something for reasons, thats fine, that doesnt make it a scam.

 

[Squid Surprise]

It does when those folks are being ripped off by absurd prices for a box without storage. Decent NAS starts at 300€ (quad core, 2x 2.5G LAN) and that's obviously without storage. And most of these quad cores are ancient Zen models from 2017 with DDR4. The number of M.2 NAS's is pretty much around 100. Extra LAN ports or 10G sends the prices into stratosphere (1000€+ for an empty box) despite 10G NIC's costing below 100€ for the longest time.

Like I said in my initial post - prebuilt PC SI's are able to sell full computers with storage included for significantly cheaper prices with much smaller markup. Comparing theirs and DIY build usually only results in a few hundred € difference so their assembly and single point guarantee and support is worth it. And full computers are for more complex machines to build and support because many more things can go wrong. Yet they do it and they're still in business despite "humane" margins.

If people are stupid (I mean with money, not intelligence) and want to pay exorbitant sums for outdated junk then go a head. Just dont expect me to not critique it...

Being "ripped off" is NOT a scam. A scam is when you give someone money and don't receive what you paid for.

As for Synology, YES, it's expensive. Yes, there are cheaper alternatives.

But... if you do not know how to (or don't want to) build your own NAS, they are a very good choice. Their boxes are rock solid and have an extensive software library with numerous features.

While most people frequenting this site are familiar with DIY PCs and have extensive IT/tech knowledge, that is NOT true of the computer-using populace at large. For those people, Synology is a very reasonable solution for their needs.

 

[RaXelliX]

Do you have actual counter points to the numbers I wrote or are you still hung up on the naming?

 

[Squid Surprise]

Do you have actual counter points to the numbers I wrote or are you still hung up on the naming?

You compare them to prebuilt computers…. But they’re not the same…
Someone who buys a pre-built PC expects a small markup in exchange for not having to do the building…
Someone who requires a pre-built NAS is different. Most likely, they have no idea how much it would cost to “build their own” and even if they did, they’d have no interest or ability to do so.
While Synology is among the priciest, pretty much all pre-built NAS companies charge a far higher premium than boutique PC builders.
Again, just because YOU wouldn’t buy a Synology doesn’t mean it’s not the right move for others.

 

[RaXelliX]

You compare them to prebuilt computers…. But they’re not the same…
Someone who buys a pre-built PC expects a small markup in exchange for not having to do the building…
Someone who requires a pre-built NAS is different. Most likely, they have no idea how much it would cost to “build their own” and even if they did, they’d have no interest or ability to do so.
While Synology is among the priciest, pretty much all pre-built NAS companies charge a far higher premium than boutique PC builders.
Again, just because YOU wouldn’t buy a Synology doesn’t mean it’s not the right move for others.

So what I gather from this is that people just expect these prices for a NAS and that is why it's the way that things are?

I would not say that NAS buyer is significantly different compared to prebuilt PC buyer in terms of their knowledge, interest or ability. You make it sound like prebuilt PC buyers are just lazy people who know full well how to build their own, but since the markup is so small they buy a prebuilt instead?

But NAS buyers are total dummies with myriad of reasons who find that the mark up is worth it because surely building a NAS is such a complex task?

It sounds to me more like there is very little competition in the NAS market to drive prices down. Plus monopolistic practices to lock down people to their ecosystems.
Sound absolutely dreadful.

Based on data from Geizhals.eu there are 17 companies selling NAS units. Only two of them can be considered large in terms of units offered (quad digits). Two medium (triple digits) and other 13 are pretty much miniscule with mostly single digit offerings.

Company (product listings):
Amber (2)
Asustor (510)
Buffalo (7)
Fantec (1)
HP (1)
ioSafe (5)
LenovoEMC (2)
Linksys (1)
Netgear (2)
QNAP (1931)
Synology (1483)
TerraMaster (19)
Toshiba (1)
Transcend (1)
Ugreen (106)
Western Digital (18)
Zyxel (2)

 

[Squid Surprise]

So what I gather from this is that people just expect these prices for a NAS and that is why it's the way that things are?

I would not say that NAS buyer is significantly different compared to prebuilt PC buyer in terms of their knowledge, interest or ability. You make it sound like prebuilt PC buyers are just lazy people who know full well how to build their own, but since the markup is so small they buy a prebuilt instead?

But NAS buyers are total dummies with myriad of reasons who find that the mark up is worth it because surely building a NAS is such a complex task?

It sounds to me more like there is very little competition in the NAS market to drive prices down. Plus monopolistic practices to lock down people to their ecosystems.
Sound absolutely dreadful.

Based on data from Geizhals.eu there are 17 companies selling NAS units. Only two of them can be considered large in terms of units offered (quad digits). Two medium (triple digits) and other 13 are pretty much miniscule with mostly single digit offerings.

Company (product listings):
Amber (2)
Asustor (510)
Buffalo (7)
Fantec (1)
HP (1)
ioSafe (5)
LenovoEMC (2)
Linksys (1)
Netgear (2)
QNAP (1931)
Synology (1483)
TerraMaster (19)
Toshiba (1)
Transcend (1)
Ugreen (106)
Western Digital (18)
Zyxel (2)

Again, high prices does NOT equate scam.

And FAR more people buy PCs than buy a NAS… so while virtually everyone who buys a NAS has also bought a PC, the reverse is obviously not true.

A NAS is a niche product for personal users… for enterprise, it’s completely essential. But when a business needs a NAS, price (assuming it’s not insane), is only a small factor. Hiring / training someone to build a NAS is far costlier and complex than simply buying a prebuilt NAS and having the existing staff install it…