Tesla's "cheaper" Cybertruck arrives at $59,990, still far from the $40K promise

[Puiu]

The purpose of consumer goods is to satisfy those consumers purchasing them. By that metric, the Cybertruck scores well above average. Anyone buying a vehicle above the level of a budget subcompact is looking for factors beyond simple A-to-B transportation. Ferraris are some of the least-reliable vehicles known to man, yet they're still quite popular.

with your comment you were implying that they're good cars (a counter-argument), not that they "satisfy" a consumer. I just corrected you on that with a known fact that they're not good cars.

"yet they're still quite popular" - according to what metrics? it's definitely not build quality and reliability. and they moved only 20k last year, abysmal numbers compared to their projections.

maybe you are referring to the fact that it was recalled just 10 times. /s

Cybertruck Sales Show Stomach-Churning Drop

The Tesla Cybertruck is once again setting all the wrong kinds of records in regards to its dismal sales figures.

futurism.com

 

[Endymio]

with your comment you were implying that they're good cars (a counter-argument), not that they "satisfy" a consumer. I just corrected you on that with a known fact that they're not good cars.

No, you're still confused. In the consumer marketplace, "good" is defined as satisfying the consumer. Cybertrucks are good vehicles. Quod Erat Demonstradum.

maybe you are referring to the fact that it was recalled just 10 times. /s

The Ford F-150 has thirteen (13) outstanding recalls in the last year alone .. and that's the most popular truck made. Oh, and nearly half of the Cybertruck's 'recalls' (4 out of 10) were correctable through over-the-air software updates. Not so lucky for the recalls from Ford, GM, Toyota, etc.

 

[wiyosaya]

Kelly Blue Book: "5 out of 6 of owners (83%) rank the 2024 Cybertruck five out of five stars...."

Consumer Reports had an interesting story a few years back on what people thought was quality WRT vehicles.

People who only owned only Corvettes consistently rated them as great cars, even though they were in the shop for repairs sometimes several times a month.

IMO, this is a great example of owner bias, where the owners have never had anything else to compare to, it means literally nothing.

 

[wiyosaya]

other reasons to be successful.

That's a laugh given Tesla is converting factories to make Optimus robots.

Maybe fElon will convince (order) Tesla to throw in an Optimus Robot as a buyer incentive since Cybertrucks are not selling well.

IMO, its hard to have any confidence in a brand when the brand has decided to convert its factories to make something else.

Tesla, the Edsel of the 21st Century.

 

[Endymio]

IMO, this is a great example of owner bias, where the owners have never had anything else to compare to, it means literally nothing.

So your theory is that Cybertruck owners have never owned another vehicle, despite the fact it was only released a couple of years ago, and demographics shows Cybertruck purchasers are almost entirely by multi-vehicle owners?

Did you put much thought into this?

 

[wiyosaya]

No, you're still confused. In the consumer marketplace, "good" is defined as satisfying the consumer. Cybertrucks are good vehicles. Quod Erat Demonstradum.

And like I said, an owner's opinion is not necessarily worth anything.

The Ford F-150 has thirteen (13) outstanding recalls in the last year alone .. and that's the most popular truck made. Oh, and nearly half of the Cybertruck's 'recalls' (4 out of 10) were correctable through over-the-air software updates. Not so lucky for the recalls from Ford, GM, Toyota, etc.

Buh, buh, buh, buh F150!!!!!!!!

 

[wiyosaya]

So your theory is that Cybertruck owners have never owned another vehicle, despite the fact it was only released a couple of years ago, and demographics shows Cybertruck purchasers are almost entirely by multi-vehicle owners?

Did you put much thought into this?

Clearly, you haven't. They were only released a few years ago, yet they are great cars.

 

[Endymio]

Clearly, you haven't. They were only released a few years ago, yet they are great cars.

If sheer age made a vehicle great, we'd all be driving Edsels and Nash Metropolitans. Those who own Cybertrucks are much happier with their purchase than is the average vehicle owner, and no amount of anti-Musk bias changes that fact.

 

[Puiu]

No, you're still confused. In the consumer marketplace, "good" is defined as satisfying the consumer. Cybertrucks are good vehicles. Quod Erat Demonstradum.


The Ford F-150 has thirteen (13) outstanding recalls in the last year alone .. and that's the most popular truck made. Oh, and nearly half of the Cybertruck's 'recalls' (4 out of 10) were correctable through over-the-air software updates. Not so lucky for the recalls from Ford, GM, Toyota, etc.

"In the consumer marketplace, "good" is defined as satisfying the consumer. " - it most certainly isn't. where did you even get this idea? I gave you objective metrics not a definition for the emotions of those who already own one. for example, the car being described as "cool" by the owners doesn't make it a good car. some people like how Lada looks too.

"The Ford F-150" - thanks for proving me right about the recalls. you didn't deny it, you just looked for another equally bad number.

 

[Endymio]

"In the consumer marketplace, "good" is defined as satisfying the consumer. " - it most certainly isn't. where did you even get this idea?

This is the most basic element of microeconomics. It's known as utility: the total satisfaction, happiness, or value a consumer derives from consuming a particular good or service.

https://web.ics.purdue.edu/~bvankamm/Files/340%20Notes/ECON%20301%20Notes%203%20-%20Utility.pdf

The fundamental goal of all economic policy is to maximize utility.

"The Ford F-150" - thanks for proving me right about the recalls. you didn't deny it, you just looked for another equally bad number.

Six recalls requiring in-shop service isn't a particularly high figure for a newly introduced model. The median for all vehicles is just under four recalls, which includes models which have been on the market decades, with all that time to iron out initial defects.

 

[GoldenGoat]

7,500 towing capacity is bad. I couldn't care less how fast a truck can accelerate with no load.

 

[Puiu]

This is the most basic element of microeconomics. It's known as utility: the total satisfaction, happiness, or value a consumer derives from consuming a particular good or service.

https://web.ics.purdue.edu/~bvankamm/Files/340%20Notes/ECON%20301%20Notes%203%20-%20Utility.pdf

The fundamental goal of all economic policy is to maximize utility.


Six recalls requiring in-shop service isn't a particularly high figure for a newly introduced model. The median for all vehicles is just under four recalls, which includes models which have been on the market decades, with all that time to iron out initial defects.

"This is the most basic element of microeconomics. " - we weren't really talking about economics, but the objective overview of how good a car is. People are happy with drugs too, it doesn't mean anything.

And your "satisfaction" means even less when so few people actually buy it. It excludes everybody who isn't satisfied with it so they didn't finish the transaction or made an informed decision that the car doesn't meet their minimum requirements. The "economics", as you put it, say that it's a failure.

"The fundamental goal of all economic policy is to maximize utility." - which this car doesn't satisfy at all.

"Six recalls requiring in-shop service isn't a particularly high figure for a newly introduced model." - based on what objective study are you saying this?

"The median for all vehicles is just under four recalls," - yeah, for 30 years. it's for the lifespan of the cars. Cybertruck started delivering in November 2023 for crying out loud and it's not their first tesla on the market.

 

[Endymio]

"This is the most basic element of microeconomics. " - we weren't really talking about economics, but the objective overview of how good a car is. People are happy with drugs too,

We were indeed talking about consumer economics. The only objective measure of a product is in how well it satisfies the consumer. Period. It is in fact the entire basis of the free market: goods which don't satisfy consumers don't get sold, and thus quickly fail to exist.

And I believe you're equally confused about drugs. Drug addicts aren't "happy" ... the very definition of addiction is an inability to stop or abstain from use, despite the desire to do so.

"Six recalls requiring in-shop service isn't a particularly high figure for a newly introduced model." - based on what objective study are you saying this?

Based on real world data. Let's compare against other recently-introduced EVs:

Rivian's R1 : 21 recalls.
Lucid's Air: 18 recalls.
Mustang Mach-E : 22 recalls.

 

[Puiu]

We were indeed talking about consumer economics. The only objective measure of a product is in how well it satisfies the consumer. Period. It is in fact the entire basis of the free market: goods which don't satisfy consumers don't get sold, and thus quickly fail to exist.

And I believe you're equally confused about drugs. Drug addicts aren't "happy" ... the very definition of addiction is an inability to stop or abstain from use, despite the desire to do so.


Based on real world data. Let's compare against other recently-introduced EVs:

Rivian's R1 : 21 recalls.
Lucid's Air: 18 recalls.
Mustang Mach-E : 22 recalls.

you don't seem to be able to read these numbers properly.

for example, the Rivian's R1 is listed with ~20 recalls in some datatabases, but the vast majority are just some OTA software updates. the R1 had only 8 notable recalls. which is not an excuse, but it's also not the whole story.

They also count the recall multiple times based on the model's year. For example, the Lucid Air has recalls counted for every year's model since 2023 till 2026 even if it's the same recall/issue. the same "BACK OVER PREVENTION" recall appears for every year, sometimes multiple times. These are just some OTA updates to the software for the rear camera.

Now imagine this: each software update that fixed a bug was counted for Tesla... just v14 for FSD would be in the hundreds.

"Drug addicts aren't "happy"" - tell that the the people who use drugs with a smile on their face each day.

"the only objective measure of a product is in how well it satisfies the consumer" - ok, explain then why so many costumers are unsatisfied and didn't buy the car. if that's the only thing you care about. if the quality of the car isn't important, why isn't it selling more based on customer such amazing satisfaction? Oh wait... you already answered:

"goods which don't satisfy consumers don't get sold, and thus quickly fail to exist." - thanks

 

[Endymio]

the Rivian's R1 is listed with ~20 recalls in some datatabases, but the vast majority are just some OTA software updates. the R1 had only 8 notable recalls.

And the Cybertruck had only four. My point is made.

They also count the recall multiple times based on the model's year. For example, the Lucid Air has recalls counted for every year's model since 2023 till 2026 even if it's the same recall/issue.

I counted for a single model year only, the 2022 (year of introduction). 14 of those are still in the NHTSA database, with 2 more open investigations:

https://www.nhtsa.gov/vehicle/2022/LUCID/AIR

"the only objective measure of a product is in how well it satisfies the consumer" - ok, explain then why so many costumers are unsatisfied and didn't buy the car

By your logic, the Rolls Royce Phantom is a terrible car, because so few are sold each year. The Cybertruck was intentionally designed with a highly polarizing appearance ensuring it wouldn't be sold in million-unit quantities like Civics and Camrys.

Again, the only objective measure of a product is in consumer satisfaction. The metric you're attempting to use -- recalls for minor issues like cosmetic trim panels -- is flatly absurd. Each consumer rates products by their own set of factors, and each consumer is different.

 

[Puiu]

And the Cybertruck had only four. My point is made.


I counted for a single model year only, the 2022 (year of introduction). 14 of those are still in the NHTSA database, with 2 more open investigations:

https://www.nhtsa.gov/vehicle/2022/LUCID/AIR

By your logic, the Rolls Royce Phantom is a terrible car, because so few are sold each year. The Cybertruck was intentionally designed with a highly polarizing appearance ensuring it wouldn't be sold in million-unit quantities like Civics and Camrys.

Again, the only objective measure of a product is in consumer satisfaction. The metric you're attempting to use -- recalls for minor issues like cosmetic trim panels -- is flatly absurd. Each consumer rates products by their own set of factors, and each consumer is different.

"My point is made." - which confirms mine.

"I counted for a single model year only, the 2022 (year of introduction" - no you didn't. you can look at the associated products and half the ones in that datatabase are just OTA software updates.

"Rolls Royce Phantom is a terrible car" - removing ALL context and using strawman arguments is a sign of accepting defeat. you are trying to go into the absurd to dismiss the entire argument. thanks for proving me right once again. but I really dislike it when people are gaslighting me. do not do this, it's annoying.

"recalls for minor issues like cosmetic trim panels" - if only it was just simple cosmetic trims. and I've never seen so many issues with things detaching from a car because they used glue. it's one of the major issues with the car and why it scores so badly on the build quality.

in the end all you did was try to deflect, use absurd arguments and ignore the simple reality that the whole world knows. it's like when I'm calling trump a sexual abuser and pedo and I have one of his cultists point fingers at others telling "that guy did it too! focus on that guy not trump!"

 

[Endymio]

no you didn't. you can look at the associated products ...

I gave you the actual link to confirm the count.

... and half the ones in that datatabase are just OTA software updates.

And **more** than half of the Cybertruck's recalls are just OTA software updates. My point is made.

...I've never seen so many issues with things detaching from a car because they used glue.

Two pieces of cosmetic trim are "so many issues"? And every vehicle made today uses glue on trim pieces, and many besides the Cybertruck have had similar issues.

Your anti-Musk tirade run its course yet, or you wish to fabricate some more straw men to be knocked down? It's clear you're being driven by your political bias against Musk himself, rather than factual content.