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US threatens to withhold intel if Germany uses Huawei's 5G technology

By David Matthews · 18 replies
Mar 12, 2019
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  1. The United States government has routinely advised allies against using networking equipment from Huawei because of potential cybersecurity issues. Now the US is threatening to withhold important intelligence reports if countries use Huawei's 5G technology, according to The Wall Street Journal.

    US Ambassador to Germany, Richard Grenell, said that using Chinese networking manufacturers such as Huawei for 5G deployments would prevent the US from maintaining "the same level of cooperation with German security agencies." This means that the United States would limit intelligence sharing with Germany and potentially strain relations between the two countries.

    Warnings about Huawei and other Chinese tech companies is nothing new. The US government has long maintained that companies like Huawei and ZTE have close ties with the Chinese government. Buying equipment from them could potentially open companies to having their data stolen by Chinese intelligence.

    For its part, Germany says that its implementing strict security measures to ensure data integrity such as inspecting the source code and closely monitoring the contractors who will run the 5G networks. Germany also concluded through an internal investigation that Huawei would not be able to intercept data using the equipment.

    While the US has yet to produce any tangible proof verifying Huawei as a threat, this could not only strain relationships with Germany but other allied countries, particularly the UK, who are considering using Chinese companies for their 5G networking. Huawei often charges much less for their equipment than their international competition which makes them quite attractive for smaller telecom companies.

    Huawei is suing the US government for what it sees as an unfair ban and hurting competition, accusing the US for being "judge, jury, and executioner." The company believes that National Defense Authorization Act violates the US Constitution by "punishing" Chinese companies without trial or evidence.

    "The US Congress has repeatedly failed to produce any evidence to support its restrictions on Huawei products," Huawei Deputy Chairman Guo Ping said. "We are compelled to take this legal action as a proper and last resort."

    Restricting vital intelligence to a major ally could have ramifications for the United States. Some countries may not use Chinese technology for fear of losing access to US' intelligence while others may decide to move forward and put pressure in the relations with the States which is already low.

    Permalink to story.

     
  2. iamcts

    iamcts TS Addict Posts: 216   +141

    I mean... I get it.

    Huawei and ZTE are the newest boogieman for the US Government, and it's for a good reason. I'm all for kicking Chinese telecommunications companies out of the running regardless of if they're spying or not.
     
    ghostf1re likes this.
  3. l4ztech

    l4ztech TS Rookie

    The US wants there own system in use so that they can spy on everybody, there was enough proof for that ( snowden/nsa/WikiLeaks) , That's why they are being such *****.
     
    TempleOrion, Gmachine, xxLCxx and 5 others like this.
  4. MilwaukeeMike

    MilwaukeeMike TS Evangelist Posts: 3,139   +1,402

    Right, cause there are only 3 companies in the world that make networking equipment - Huawei, ZTE and 'the US company that the govt uses to spy on us.' The US govt is telling Germany to pick ANYONE besides Huawei/ZTE- there are probably a bunch of choices - a few are probably even German.

    We have plenty of proof that the Chinese government has stolen intellectual property. If these companies are closely connected to the govt, then that's sort of like allowing a known thief to program your garage door opener for you.
    You don't need to wait for them to steal something before knowing it's a bad idea.
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2019
    Knot Schure and ghostf1re like this.
  5. Bullwinkle M

    Bullwinkle M TS Enthusiast Posts: 70   +34

    DRM, proprietary wireless communications and rules, one sided licensing agreements and other forms of Corporate Extortionware, Blackmail and CopyRight Law are banned from all of my networks for the same reason.

    I use my Personal National Security exemptions to Violate U.S. Law whenever I see Corporate Spyware, Rules, Malware and the like Violating my Rights to make "MY OWN" personal security decisions

    I will continue to Rip out DRM and proprietary technology from products I buy and your Laws will not stop me

    Whenever you pay to have complete strangers controlling the security of your car, computer, clock, fridge, toaster or anything else, then you have no security

    U.S. Laws, Rules and Regulations do not apply to me!
    I'm an American
     
    Gmachine, xxLCxx and tiger168 like this.
  6. XtremeHammond

    XtremeHammond TS Enthusiast Posts: 34   +27

    What country doesn't spy?
    It's understandable about Huawei as it is a pro-government company.
     
  7. tiger168

    tiger168 TS Rookie

    Why? Chinese and American were allies during WWII, Japan, Vietnam and German were the enemies, yet, we are sleeping with the enemies, go figure! Are we promoting "HATE!!!" for no good reason? Look around the world, American is the largest arms dealer and creates most if not all of the conflicts. Pushing the corrupted democratic and capitalist system all over. Yet, they don't practice the ethics of either themselves? hypocrite? ... No, I don't get it...
     
  8. tiger168

    tiger168 TS Rookie


    Corporation espionage cases happen in the US all the time, but, we only chose to broadcast "Oh, the Chinese did it..." Prior to the year 2000, the Hollywood assumed enemy was the Russians. All US made movies, TV series, well, you can call it propaganda as that is what the US calls its counterpart when they make something like that; nowadays, the movie and TV series portrait the Chinese is the enemy, while Russian don't even make air time in the media, except leftover cold war stuff and mafia.

    When NSA listens and monitors all communications worldwide and their elected officials, using exploits in Windows, Apple, Android, and Unix OS. The US satellites can target certain device and individual to monitor using any tech. And let's not forget how the US hackers broke through Huawei/ZTE networking equipment to spy on the Chinese, yet, no one says anything to this bully. Partly because previous Huawei/ZTE hardwares still use chips design from US companies. But, new generations of Huawei and ZTE and other Chinese networking companies, stop using US designed chips, but, their own, that is the real worry, thatf the US is unable to hack through these new technologies to spy on their WWII allies.

    The US did this in the past to a French company and not long ago Toshiba just they are doing now to Huawei. Another case: when the Lenovo brand, which was IBM at the time, was sold to Chinese investors, the US government immediately cancel all PC orders to Lenovo (of course IBM didni't tell now the owner of Lenovo). Then, to protect DELL and HP, US Congress stop all merger and buyout to the dying PC industries and subsidizing them with the government contracts. How are these companies going to innovate new technology while merely surviving and on life support and CPR?? No new PC innovation has come of any US corporations for the last 10 years.

    And the US is now creating fake news to say the high tech companies either own by and employee Chinese race engineers made motherboard are using chips to spy on all datacenters. What a load of you know what. UNfortunately, as it turned out the chip was made by US based legacy design. So Chinese engineers born and raised and educated in the US found or work in the US companies now are being blamed?? I just remember how US round up the Japanese and put them in a camp during WWII, while some of these Japnese American were in the Pacific fighting on bahave of the American.

    Let's not forgotten the US didn't want the contaminated PCB manufacture in the US and move them all to Asia to contaminate their environment, instead. Apple, Google, Facebook, Uber, etc., are full of excellent engineers that are Chinese race. Now the US government is telling the universities that Chinese race are forbidden to take high-tech classes. All this is because Chinese is catching up with the very high tech capitalist market that US is preaching and investing in Beijing.

    Let's, also, not forget the US forbid the Chinese to join the Space Station project, which now, lack of funding and had to hitch a ride from the Russian rockets, which launch from Chinese sponsored launch sites. Chinese had to create their own Space Stations, and making sure the Chinese race will not disappear from the Earth population, it something happens. And the Chinese are building Moon stations and going to Mar soon. If what US doing is not a new form of genicie and ethnic cleansing, I don't know what is...

    Now Chinese has the firsts in quantum computing, AI, 5G, speed railway, cell phone, yet, they have not made weapons based on these technologies, unlike the American, prioritize technology in weapons,

    Chinese hasn't invaded any country like the American; Chinese hasn't sent any spy planes, ships, satellite anywhere near the US continent, but, US do, 24/7... Chinese has no military bases outside its continent, while the US has 44 surrounding China... The Chinese embassy in DC, only has 200 employees, compares to the 4,000+ Americans working in it's Beijing Embassy, and those were only registered... One can go on and on and ask, what are the American DOING?? If not obvious...

    Chinese citizens don't own guns, well, we love our second amendment, don't we!!! More people and our children are killed on our street than those in war, and we are afraid that one day we might be invaded? go figure... I really don't want to mention the $10,000 toilet seats and the $5,000 hammers that the defense companies are selling to the US military and Pentagon... I really don't...
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2019
    TempleOrion, Gmachine and xxLCxx like this.
  9. Lucas Van Hool

    Lucas Van Hool TS Rookie

    [QUOTE=" a few are probably even German.[/QUOTE]
    No, beside Huawei, only Nokia, Ericsson and Samsung are making 5G base stations.

    [QUOTE="We have plenty of proof that the Chinese government has stolen intellectual property.[/QUOTE]
    Where is the proof ?
     
    TempleOrion and xxLCxx like this.
  10. Lucas Van Hool

    Lucas Van Hool TS Rookie

    Can a country fall deeper ?
    It´s unbelievable 1 man can bring down the greatest country in the world in just some months.
    It will take decades for the US and its agencies to get back credibility.
    The NSA had a good motive to keep a close look at the internet : terrorism.
    Today the NSA gets the title of greatest spy service in the world ... thanks to Trump´s fight against all secret services.
     
    TempleOrion likes this.
  11. Lucas Van Hool

    Lucas Van Hool TS Rookie

    Tiger168, you are partly right.
    It is not the chips used which bother the US. That 5G chip business they already lost completely to China. However till now all base station manufacturers kept a backdoor open for the NSA, The NSA had access to the base station´s log files. In the latest 5G base stations Huawei closed the backdoor. This is a very big problem for the US.
     
    TempleOrion and xxLCxx like this.
  12. treetops

    treetops TS Evangelist Posts: 2,358   +403

    The chinese make our smart phones, so yeah...
     
  13. Dimitrios

    Dimitrios TS Maniac Posts: 320   +220

    You mean Obama? A lot has happen during his time in office. Also a lot of technology was stolen during Obama's time and for some reason China really loved Obama and China stole a lot of our technology and many claims coming out recently. Obama also was stingy with NASA funds and our military. I have friends and family in the Marines & NAVY and we are really behind in the NAVY with weapons technology vs China and now with our air force vs Russia and fighter jets.
     
  14. Lucas Van Hool

    Lucas Van Hool TS Rookie

    The world loved Obama and hates Trump.
    How can you love a person who tells you 1 month after his inauguration that your country is a sh1th0le (I am Belgian).
    Americans love war. The rest of the world doesn´t. Having the biggest military spending is a proof of aggression. In general people do not like aggressive people.
     
    TempleOrion, Gmachine and xxLCxx like this.
  15. Bullwinkle M

    Bullwinkle M TS Enthusiast Posts: 70   +34

    Lucas Van Hool
    "The NSA had a good motive to keep a close look at the internet : terrorism."
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    terrorism?

    Where are you getting your fake news from?

    All the evidence I have indicates that American Terrorists in the U.S. are responsible for 911

    As far as I know, Big Business, the Gov't and the Postal service were attacked because of the crimes they were committing against AMERICANS (as well as foreigners)

    Self defense is not a crime!
    The criminals will not investigate or arrest themselves, so......911

    100% justifiable in my expert opinion because I have facts you never heard in the news
    All you heard was news reports that covered up the facts

    I will however agree that 911 was caused by Terrorists
    I simply disagree as to who the Terrorists were
     
    Gmachine and xxLCxx like this.
  16. Lucas Van Hool

    Lucas Van Hool TS Rookie

    Bullwinkle, I speak about terrorism or threat in general. I did not mention if these threat is American or non-American. Every country has the right to protect itself. But this is true as well for other countries. Till recently Europe agreed that the US was the coördinator of this protection and handed voluntarily all info to the US services. However with the latest trend in your policies, Europe has to decline that US supremacy. "America First" automatically results in "America Alone". This is not a decision of Europe but an American policy of your new administration. If you want to blame somebody for it, point your arrows at Washington DC.
     
    TempleOrion, Gmachine and xxLCxx like this.
  17. iamcts

    iamcts TS Addict Posts: 216   +141

    The US spends more than the next 12 countries combined on its military. If we spend that much, where is all the money going, and how come Russia and China are beating us? Is it because our government funnels hundreds of billions of dollars into defense companies that they're invested in to enrich themselves? Probably.

    Stating that the US is "behind on tech" without any sources or facts to back it up is slightly ridiculous. Using anecdotal evidence that a friend was in the military is not even close to a reliable source.
     
    TempleOrion likes this.
  18. iamcts

    iamcts TS Addict Posts: 216   +141

    Because China and Russia are hostile enemies.

    However, China is more of a "frienemy" because the US and Chinese economy rely heavily on each other.
     
    TempleOrion likes this.
  19. Outlander04

    Outlander04 TS Rookie Posts: 17   +6

    The NSA was able to illegally monitor all phone and txt messages in other countries because they used American made hardware .
    The Chinese might be trying to do the same, but the US governments objection to Huawei is that they will no longer able to spy on whoever they like, rather than that the Chinese will
     
    TempleOrion likes this.

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