Windows 11: a spyware machine out of users' control?

[Alfonso Maruccia]

WTF?! For the past few years, Microsoft has been accused of regularly violating user privacy. Compared to the classic NT-based systems, Windows 10 and especially Windows 11 are two completely different beasts in this regard.

How much data is a Windows operating system sending to online servers? According to a recent video from The PC Security Channel (TPCSC, via Neowin), the most up-to-date version of the Redmond OS is a real "talker" when it comes to telemetry and other data about users' preferences and online behavior.

Titled, "Has Windows become Spyware?," the video describes how live capture sessions can show online communication between Windows and external servers. The video creator used Wireshark, a well-known (and free) network protocol analyzer useful to see what is happening on a network "at a microscopic level."

Using Wireshark to check what a freshly-installed copy of Windows 11 was doing on a brand-new laptop, what they saw was eye-opening to say the least: just after the first boot, Windows 11 was quick to try and reach third-party servers with absolutely no prior user permission or intervention.

By using a Wireshark filter to analyze DNS traffic, TPCSC found that Windows 11 was connecting to many online services provided by Microsoft including MSN, the Bing search engine and Windows Update. Many third-party services were present as well, as Windows 11 had seemingly important things to say to the likes of Steam, McAfee, and Comscore ScorecardResearch.com, which is a market research effort that "studies and reports on Internet trends and behavior."

Many of the Windows 11 initial DNS queries where designed to provide "telemetry" data to market research companies, advertising providers and even geolocation-related domains like geo.prod.do with no permission or web browsing activity needed. The latest and greatest in the Windows line of operating systems is seemingly designed to "spy" anyone and everything from the get-go, TPCSC suggests.

As a comparison, or perhaps as a critical note about the current state of privacy in the Windows ecosystem, the YouTube channel tried the same packet-sniffing activity via Wireshark on Windows XP, which was first released in 2001.

According to their analysis, Windows XP doesn't even know what the word "telemetry" means: the first DNS traffic from the freshly-installed OS was to try and contact the Windows Update service, and that's all. No market research, no browsing tracking, nothing at all.

Some people are trying to justify Windows 11's behavior as the lesser evil in a technology world full of third-party services and online features that need to be fed data to work as intended. Answering to comments on the video, TPCSC is still warning the most knowledgeable and privacy-aware users that even when telemetry is turned off via third-party utilities, Windows 11 is still "sending things" online.

Permalink to story.

https://www.techspot.com/news/97535-windows-11-spyware-machine-out-users-control.html

 

[poshflamingos]

"Oh no, this is outrageous!" - Posted from my Google® Android™ smartphone

 

[dangh]

And to think that Deepin linux was totally bashed because it was sending a advertisement cookie to their build-in distro store...

 

[thelatestmodel]

I no longer use Windows as my main OS - it literally only gets used for games that require it now. VR for example. Everything else gets done on Linux. Would recommend the same for everyone, Linux is just better for your day to day stuff.

 

[brunocasarini]

Windows and Android have become data hoarders. I'm thinking about building a Linux machine exclusively for personal stuff and a Windows for everything else, but hardware prices here in Brazil do not let us have nice things.

 

[Julnor]

Thanks to Proton, for the most part Linux Gaming works well now. You can use the Nobara distro and run things through Lutris for everything else. Most things can run fine off system WINE though.

 

[DixieFatline]

I no longer use Windows as my main OS - it literally only gets used for games that require it now. VR for example. Everything else gets done on Linux. Would recommend the same for everyone, Linux is just better for your day to day stuff.

Have tried the switch many times. If I could get a newer version of office to run on linux I would use it. Unfortunately I am dependent on the office ecosystem (desktop versions) because of work. I think if office was made to work on linux, either officially or unofficially, windows would die.

 

[Bullwinkle M]

have tried the switch many times. if I could get a newer version of office to run on linux I would use it. Unfortunately I am dependent on the office ecosystem (desktop versions) because of work. I think if office was made to work on linux, either officially or unofficially, windows would die.

May I rephrase that for clarity?

"I would switch from Microsoft's OS Spyware Platform if I could get a newer (more invasive) version of their Spyware Application to run on Linux because I require their Spyware App for work related tasks"

Better?

 

[Guillermo Belli]

"Oh no, this is outrageous!" - Posted from my Google® Android™ smartphone

I run LineageOS with no google services installed. It's not for everyone but it's possible to have a de-googled android.

 

[kimo1]

But what about other operating systems?

 

[passwordistaco]

Windows and Android have become data hoarders. I'm thinking about building a Linux machine exclusively for personal stuff and a Windows for everything else, but hardware prices here in Brazil do not let us have nice things.

Dual boot is an option - probably less convenient.

 

[psycros]

I no longer use Windows as my main OS - it literally only gets used for games that require it now. VR for example. Everything else gets done on Linux. Would recommend the same for everyone, Linux is just better for your day to day stuff.

I dearly wish that were the case, but the experiences of myself and a good number of friends and co-workers says differently. Linux cannot automatically find Windows network servers, a critical ability for some. Its not quite as stable as Windows 7 or later versions no matter what anyone says. Its noticeably slower launching applications and you see inexplicable lag. I've tried many distros based on Ubuntu, Arch, Slack, you name it. Linux has made some major advances in the past decade but it still has a ways to go as a daily OS for average users, or even for Windows "power users". Truthfully, I think Mac users would be more comfortable with Linux - most Linux apps have a look and feel closer to to OSX than Windows. Linux on an M1 or M2 Mac would probably be amazing, though.

 

[sagbobbit]

"Oh no, this is outrageous!" - Posted from my Google® Android™ smartphone

Windows and Android have become data hoarders. I'm thinking about building a Linux machine exclusively for personal stuff and a Windows for everything else, but hardware prices here in Brazil do not let us have nice things.

Never forget that Apple gets that juicy data too . . .
https://www.scss.tcd.ie/doug.leith/apple_google.pdf

 

[sagbobbit]

have tried the switch many times. if I could get a newer version of office to run on linux I would use it. Unfortunately I am dependent on the office ecosystem (desktop versions) because of work. I think if office was made to work on linux, either officially or unofficially, windows would die.

Have you tried OnlyOffice? Free, open source, looks and feels the same as MS Office, and AFAIK is completely compatible
https://www.onlyoffice.com/en/desktop.aspx

 

[Julnor]

have tried the switch many times. if I could get a newer version of office to run on linux I would use it. Unfortunately I am dependent on the office ecosystem (desktop versions) because of work. I think if office was made to work on linux, either officially or unofficially, windows would die.

Why not just keep a cheap separate laptop for work purposes? You really don't need much to run Office, a $100-200 notebook is all you need. Also most employers will just provide a laptop for remote work these days anyway.

I also had that concern especially earlier in the pandemic, I didn't want to risk my revenue stream just in case the remote tools just didn't work. I even use Edge when needed for that, I never use that for anything else (although usually Chrome works too, since Edge is just Chromium based anyway---for all my regular net browsing I use Firefox).

But in general I find for most Office tasks, LibreOffice or another alternative works perfectly fine. Still, most of us want to be sure so I'd suggest just getting that laptop just in case.

 

[mistyrain]

Aaand what are the regulators going to do now? Nothing! Which is exactly what they are. Privacy does not exist.

 

[someOtherGuy]

I dearly wish that were the case, but the experiences of myself and a good number of friends and co-workers says differently. Linux cannot automatically find Windows network servers, a critical ability for some. Its not quite as stable as Windows 7 or later versions no matter what anyone says. Its noticeably slower launching applications and you see inexplicable lag. I've tried many distros based on Ubuntu, Arch, Slack, you name it. Linux has made some major advances in the past decade but it still has a ways to go as a daily OS for average users, or even for Windows "power users". Truthfully, I think Mac users would be more comfortable with Linux - most Linux apps have a look and feel closer to to OSX than Windows. Linux on an M1 or M2 Mac would probably be amazing, though.

It depends: KDE is Windows like (Windows 7 and older, before the great "Start Menu Upgrade" in Windows 8). Almost every other desktop out there mimics macOS or is somewhat "unique".

 

[someOtherGuy]

have tried the switch many times. if I could get a newer version of office to run on linux I would use it. Unfortunately I am dependent on the office ecosystem (desktop versions) because of work. I think if office was made to work on linux, either officially or unofficially, windows would die.

If you are decided to put the effort, you could definitely run an isolated windows on a Virtualbox VM inside your linux desktop. Virtualbox includes the Seamless Mode where you would be able to have your linux native and windows programs side by side. You could move information back and forth using the Shared Folders functionality, without providing internet access to Windows. The only thing that I'm not sure will work is the windows activation, since it requires at least "some" internet connectivity every X months (I think it's 6) and also Office now has a similar activation system.

 

[Lionvibez]

I no longer use Windows as my main OS - it literally only gets used for games that require it now. VR for example. Everything else gets done on Linux. Would recommend the same for everyone, Linux is just better for your day to day stuff.

Considering my day to day is using a Windows PC in the office, Linux will not be better for me.

I do have a test laptop at home running linux when I need to test stuff (Cyber security)

 

[Theinsanegamer]

Remember when those of us that complained about 11's data telemetry were told we were being conspiracy theorists, that nothing was wrong, ece?

Every single time those conspiracy theories keep getting proven right.

 

[Julnor]

Remember when those of us that complained about 11's data telemetry were told we were being conspiracy theorists, that nothing was wrong, ece?

Every single time those conspiracy theories keep getting proven right.

I mean 10 does the same thing and Nvidia's telemetry is quite considerable, as is Steam's. People don't care, clearly. They'll take the convenience option.

 

[captaincranky]

Linux cannot automatically find Windows network servers, a critical ability for some. Its not quite as stable as Windows 7 or later versions no matter what anyone says. Its noticeably slower launching applications

I got sick of trying to update an old copy of Win 7, (no SP-1) M$ wouldn't update to SP-1, they just doled out the "cumulative security update", which didn't register as SP-1. So, most programs still available for Win 7 require SP-1. I said "f*ck it", and installed Mint. The boot times were reminiscent of an HDD, in spite of having an SSD on "sba1" (?).

OK, so this is an old box, (G-41 Intel), so it doesn't have much oomph. When I'd get a bunch of tabs open,it would red light the HDD indicator continuously, immobilizing the mouse pointer, and all browser controls. Recovery from this was hit or miss. Usually, a forced shutdown and reboot would rectify the situation. However, the other night I tried this and managed to brick the machine. Now it boots into a black screen, where I'm given the choice of "recovery mode", or "advanced". Whichever door I walk through, I get prompted to enter "help", for more "commands". It then spits out a bunch of gibberish, none of which resembles a command prompt, and proceeds to regurgitate that it can't find the "floppy drive", ("sbf" (?)), endlessly..

OK, I'm fairly certain Win 7 would have recovered under, "start Windows normally", or worst case, "insert disc to repair the system".. Mint, doesn't give you those opportunities. So, I guess it's time for the big reinstall. Which is a b*tch, since I was just getting used to Linux.

After about 5 calls to Windows activation, I was finally able to get the "industrial surplus" copy of Win 7 pro in this even older box (Intel G-31) up and running, enabling me to get this tale of woe and torment off my chest.

But no, even the latest edition of Mint, and therefore Ubuntu as well, isn't anywhere near as stable as Windows 7.

 

[Srksi]

Somebody really should start making spyware servers IP lists so we can block them on router level

 

[captaincranky]

The only thing that I'm not sure will work is the windows activation, since it requires at least "some" internet connectivity every X months (I think it's 6) and also Office now has a similar activation system.

This is a "FWIW" observation, and pertains to Win 7. IDK what the rules are for later editions.

I unhooked a Win box Dec 22, 2022. I'm fairly certain it was activated when I did so. I hooked it up yesterday, (Feb 6, 2023), and it was no longer activated. When I tried to go online with it, I got the "you can't connect because your clock is wrong", memo.

So, I set the clock, discovering that it was set to "internet time".I'm wondering if the activation is keyed to M$ reading the mismatch and deactivating Windows. Keep in mind this was only 2 months offline, not 6.

 

[Loli Pop Carbon]

I no longer use Windows as my main OS - it literally only gets used for games that require it now. VR for example. Everything else gets done on Linux. Would recommend the same for everyone, Linux is just better for your day to day stuff.

Linux is not for majority of consumers, not for everyone.

I dont wanna spend hours of trial and error looking for some drivers or workaround on github and forum just to make some simple tasks/features work, or just to play some games.

Even a power user like Linus finds Linux difficult to use.

No thanks, I'm staying with Windows.