A Rocky Launch: Gamers Are Not Buying Nvidia's RTX 4080

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DSirius

Posts: 380   +801
TechSpot Elite
This was Nvidia's mistake with the pricing of the 4080. At 4K, the RTX 4090 is 30% faster than the 4080, with an MSRP that's 34% higher. People who want absolute performance, top-the-field kind, are more likely to ignore 4%. Plus the RTX megamodels have always been $1k or higher:

2080 Ti - $999
Titan RTX - $2499
3090 - $1499
3090 Ti - $1699

So, at face value, the 4090 looks like a far better choice in terms of perf-per-$, than any of the older models. The 4080, on the other hand, is 51% faster than the 3080 but with a 72% higher MSRP. As good as the card is, that's a mighty hard sell.


Score has been updated - it's now 80/100.

Mistake is a nice word to use for Nvidia's approach. When Nvidia is claiming that their customers are too dumb to plug a 16 pin power connector, now they have to face customers response, which is the proper and the clever way reaction to Nvidia dumbness.
 

Avro Arrow

Posts: 3,392   +4,405
I try to tell people all the time "If you want nVidia to fix themselves, don't buy their card for your next two upgrades. It will send the message loud and clear and will weaken their position at the top. It worked against Intel and it would work against nVidia." but, most people don't listen because they can't see past their own noses.

People seem to think that they wouldn't survive without a GeForce card in their PCs for a few years. I've had nothing but Radeons since 2008 and not only did I survive, I thrived. I swore off of GeForce cards because I didn't like nVidia's practices at the time and I had assumed that others would follow suit and nVidia would fix themselves.

I remember how thrilled I was to get my XFX Radeon HD 4870 for $200 less than the XFX GeForce GTX 260 with which it competed. It also had a full 1GB of GDDR5 instead of the 768/896MB of DDR4 that the GTX 260 had. It was a beast and I had never been happier with a video card in my life up to that point. I thought "This ATi card is amazing! People will buy this and love it. This will make Jensen smarten up!" and I assumed that this would be a turning point to force nVidia to behave better.

I thought this because I wanted to believe that people had the brains (and the backbone) to let nVidia suffer for a generation or two. To teach them that we're not bleating sheep for them to sodomise whenever they feel like it. Apparently, I was more optimistic in my assessment of human intelligence than I had ever imagined.

People seem to have this idea that if they don't get a GeForce card today, they can't get one tomorrow. They don't realise that nVidia's conduct is 100% the fault of the people who buy their cards no matter what. Boycott them and they'll treat you better in the long run.

It is not, nor has it ever been, rocket science. If you own a GeForce card, you are Jensen's enabler. If you're unhappy with nVidia's pricing or conduct, but still bought a GeForce anyway, you have no right to complain because you have only yourself to blame. If the market shifted to Radeons for a maximum of two generations, you wouldn't need to pray that AMD makes nVidia lower their prices because nVidia wouldn't be taking you for granted in the first place. Until you do this, quit your whining!
 
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nodfor

Posts: 333   +607
Classic upsell trick. Make the medium offering terrible in value so ppl go for the most expensive thing in the line up.
As long as 4090s sell out nvidia wont move the 4080 pricing a notch.
 

Gezzer

Posts: 317   +153
Not surprised one bit. I was holding off on upgrading until the 4xxx series dropped. As more information rolled in it wasn't just the price that that was the problem for me, but the power demands, and the size as well. My case and PSU simply wouldn't let me use the card safely even without the connector problems.

TBH the only way I could even justify a buy would be with a total new system build, which I don't need or want. I found a pretty good deal on a 3080ti and went that route instead. Truth is, even with the diminished performance when compared to the current 4xxx series cards the 3080ti more than meets my needs.

And IMHO I think that's why we're seeing such slow 4080 sales. There are some people who can afford to build a whole new system with every new gen that drops. More power to them I say, but if you can afford to do that why not buy the highest tier GPU in the process? The 80 and 70 cards are for people who just need a GPU upgrade, not a new system. And IMHO all the things I previously mentioned are enough to make those people decide to give the 4xxx series a pass. Well at least until we see the 60 cards drop.
 

Skjorn

Posts: 740   +609
AMD is mopping the floor right now. Good. I hope nVidia finds a way to actually lose money next quarter. But they won't because they don't really care about consumer GPU's anymore.
So if AMD is mopping the floor does that mean Nvidia left early to leave the **** work for AMD?
AMD is about to fall back to where they were pre-ryzen. They don't even have the 4090 in their own slides.
 

Avro Arrow

Posts: 3,392   +4,405
If you value the performance of a 4080 enough to pay $1,200 for it -- possibly because this may relate to your business -- aren't you pretty much guaranteed to be even more interested in the not only higher performing but also higher price/performance ratio 4090 for $1,600?

While I hope Nvidia will conclude $1,200 was too much for the 4080, I fear they'll rather conclude that $1,600 was too little for the 4090.
Well, I'll be honest with you. If they conclude that, they're slitting their own throats. I don't really care what GeForce cards cost because I don't buy them. The only thing I care about is nVidia giving AMD licence to become more expensive themselves.
The RTX 4080's job is not to sell. It's to be an absolutely ridiculous, *****ic value product so you buy (overpriced) leftover 3000 series stock instead.
Yep. Ironically, I feel exactly the same way about the RX 7900 XT. They're both only there to make the XTX and 4090 look good, help to sell out the older cards and neither is worth their MSRPs.
Isn't it the 90/100 score card?
Well, it depends on who you ask. No other review site is remotely as impressed with the RTX 4080 as Techspot is, not even LTT. :laughing:
Very strange that it is not selling anywhere.
I know eh? It's such a mystery!!!
AMD is mopping the floor right now. Good. I hope nVidia finds a way to actually lose money next quarter. But they won't because they don't really care about consumer GPU's anymore.
The reason they don't care about consumers is that consumers have shown them that it doesn't matter how bad nVidia behaves, these people will still throw money at them. Can we really blame nVidia for not caring about these people when they clearly don't even care about themselves?
This was Nvidia's mistake with the pricing of the 4080.
I don't believe that it was a mistake. They know exactly what they're doing. They're exploiting the gullible who don't know better and they know that some people will pay it even if they do know better. They're trying to fleece who they can right now and then they'll drop the price a little, to much fanfare.
At 4K, the RTX 4090 is 30% faster than the 4080, with an MSRP that's 34% higher. People who want absolute performance, top-the-field kind, are more likely to ignore 4%. Plus the RTX megamodels have always been $1k or higher:

2080 Ti - $999
Titan RTX - $2499
3090 - $1499
3090 Ti - $1699
Yeah, and I have no issue with that. I also had no issue with the RX 6900 XT costing $350 more than the RX 6800 XT despite being only 9% faster. Halo models are for the people who want to spend more than they need to.
So, at face value, the 4090 looks like a far better choice in terms of perf-per-$, than any of the older models. The 4080, on the other hand, is 51% faster than the 3080 but with a 72% higher MSRP. As good as the card is, that's a mighty hard sell.
Assuming that we're excluding dangerous flaws, there's no such thing as a bad product, just bad prices.
Score has been updated - it's now 80/100.
That's very respectable. If nVidia drops the price to what it's actually worth, it could even be deserving of that 80. There is a level at which it even deserves the 90 you gave it initially. I think that it deserves no more than 70/100 but I'm not saying that just because I hate nVidia. I don't think that the Radeon RX 7900 XT deserves more than 70/100 either.
Perhaps users are discovering that they can control the market and not the sellers. By holding back their hard earned $$ they can force these makers to start lowering prices, increasing quality, and knocking off all the BS and finally produce an affordable, high qualify, product ..... what a concept!!
This is what I've been trying to tell the noobs for over a decade. It's like trying to convince a zucchini of something. You can tell them the most ingenious truths about life but all they ever respond with is a blank stare. :laughing:
@TimSchiesser

Why does every place that I read, when they make the table of the Ampere cards and they don't list the MSRP for the 3080 12GB model?
When the card first launched there was no MSRP given from Nvidia. The cards came out during the height of the crypt card, hard to get mania and they were posted for $1200 on retailer sites/stores. They sold instantly at that price and then scalpers were asking $1800+ for them.

Once things calmed, the MSRP was supplied for us and it is $799. It bugs me that no one uses that MSRP on those tables.
Probably a combination of things:
1. It makes nVidia look even worse.
2. The amount of 12GB cards sold is most likely a small fraction of the 10GB cards sold.
you're right, or thechspot need to use 2 scores, one for the technology / innovation, then the 90 and one for "real world usage for real ppl" -> abysmal
In their defence, they dropped it to 80.
You people complain about $1200 MSRP, in my country cheapest 4080 is $2000, VAT included.
I'm not complaining because I have no intention of buying it. Even if I were going to buy a card belonging to the upcoming generation, it would be a Radeon RX 7000 card.
No wonder nobody want's this card, pandemic and supply crysis is gone. People that wanted to upgrade already did buy at scalped prices. The ones left, like me will not spend the money asked for new cards.
I would not buy this even if it's below $700, not my budget for this component.
You're also smart enough to not dismiss Radeon cards and that works in your favour.
I will sure go with a used card, found some nice deals on RX6700 XT for about $300-350. Used but seller is giving also invoice and 1 year left warranty papers. Now this is what I call a good deal.
Absolutely! The RX 6700 XT has 12GB of VRAM, more than the original RTX 3080. That card would last you a good long while and I've seen it ranked as perhaps the best value out there today:
People are not buying it so bad that it's sold out everywhere.
It is? I don't believe that for a second!:

Canada Computers: 173 in stock (across Canada)
Memory Express (Ontario Region Alone): 60 in stock

Microcenter Locations:
Houston: 12 in stock
Boston: 10 in stock
New York City Area:

Brooklyn: 65 in stock
Flushing: 36 in stock
North Jersey: 20 in stock
Yonkers: 50 in stock

So, like, what is your definition of "sold out" and what is your definition of "everywhere"?
 
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Neatfeatguy

Posts: 1,095   +2,023
It's because it no longer exists, it has been re-branded as the RTX 4070 Ti. Therefore, it shouldn't bug you as it's not an RTX 3080 (and never really was TBH).
I wasn't talking about the 4080 12GB.

I'm talking about these charts, comparing prices. They don't put the MSRP in for the 3080 12GB:
Capture.png


I know the official launch of the 3080 12GB, no MSRP was given. The card was just tossed out to the consumer and places priced it over what the 3080 10GB were selling for at retailers, so the 12GB model came in around $1200. They sold fast (like all GPUs at retailers) and were getting scalped $1800+.

Eventually a MSRP was listed for these 3080 12GB at $799. It just bugs me that these graphs don't incorporate that info.


Canada Computers: 173 in stock (across Canada)
Memory Express (Ontario Region Alone): 60 in stock

Microcenter Locations:
Houston: 12 in stock
Boston: 10 in stock
New York City Area:

Brooklyn: 65 in stock
Flushing: 36 in stock
North Jersey: 20 in stock
Yonkers: 50 in stock

So, like, what is your definition of "sold out" and what is your definition of "everywhere"?

I've noticed that the Micro Center numbers are slowly dropping. Some stores had easily a hundred plus and now they're trickling down into the 70-60s.

My local Micro Center had 70 cards last week Thursday (according to the webisite) left in stock. Then Friday it showed about 24 in stock. Then Saturday it showed 39 in stock. Then Sunday it showed 13 in stock. Monday it showed 21 in stock.....

I don't know if they just can't count or if they're jerking our legs with their actual inventory on hand, but it keeps fluctuating. I don't know how their numbers went up between Sunday and Monday, because Tuesday is their stock delivery day. They just magically had more?

When I looked this morning they had 13 on hand - 13 of Zotac's model that costs $1399.

I take their inventory counts online with a grain of salt. All I know is that they do have some on hand, but exactly how many is anyone's guess.
 
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brucek

Posts: 1,352   +2,031
I continue to hope the reason the online 4080 inventory sold out, was because it went to dumb sneaker scalpers who don't really understand the GPU market and will be stuck selling them at a loss.

On the 4090s, I hope and think that there are a large chunk of professional users in that category, like people who are making 3D models for a living -- CAD users, game developers, etc -- and maybe there's compute and video production users too. For some of these cases it's not only the raw horsepower behind the faster 4K gaming results but also the greater memory, which if what you're trying to render requires it, could make a drastic difference. For these people $1,600 is fine -- a) it's probably not even their money; b) it's a tax write off, meaning the delta over the 4080 is even smaller; and c) if this is stopping you from twiddling your thumbs longer multiple times a day it's an obvious must buy. But again for all this category, whatever size it may be, there's no reason to buy the 4080 when the 4090 is on the table.

I'm curious what the breakdown of professional vs. purely recreational whale gamer purchases are at these high prices.
 

Ludak021

Posts: 775   +590
I wouldn't have bought 1060 6gb for $400, I don't see why nvidia thinks that I would 3060Ti for $400. Sure, people are buying, but there are not enough of those people and it will show next year. You want to sell tens of millions of cards, if not hundreds of millions, not 150.000 thousand (4090 sales)...to streamers and people that can afford everything that exists short of yachts and private jets.
That's my opinion anyway.
 

Avro Arrow

Posts: 3,392   +4,405
I continue to hope the reason the online 4080 inventory sold out, was because it went to dumb sneaker scalpers who don't really understand the GPU market and will be stuck selling them at a loss.
It's funny you should say that...
On the 4090s, I hope and think that there are a large chunk of professional users in that category, like people who are making 3D models for a living -- CAD users, game developers, etc -- and maybe there's compute and video production users too. For some of these cases it's not only the raw horsepower behind the faster 4K gaming results but also the greater memory, which if what you're trying to render requires it, could make a drastic difference. For these people $1,600 is fine -- a) it's probably not even their money; b) it's a tax write off, meaning the delta over the 4080 is even smaller; and c) if this is stopping you from twiddling your thumbs longer multiple times a day it's an obvious must buy. But again for all this category, whatever size it may be, there's no reason to buy the 4080 when the 4090 is on the table.
I'm not sure that's true because these still exist and are made specifically for the applications to which you refer:
PNY NVIDIA Quadro RTX A6000 48GB GDDR6-ECC Graphics Card: $4,810
PNY has all of the specs of this card here.

Velocity Micro talks about the difference between Quadro and GeForce here. I'll give you a little excerpt from the page:
"Extreme Power – Geforce does have beefy options like the RTX 3080 Ti, but for the most extreme performance, a Quadro is simply without equal. For example, the Quadro RTX A6000 features a stunning 48GB of GDDR6X VRAM and 10752 CUDA cores to provide 38 TFlops of power – and that’s on a single card. No Geforce card comes close. That type of power does come at a cost, but if the budget is open, Quadro is king in this department. Additionally, Quadro cards are easier to connect via NVLink for scalable performance and vRAM pooling, further raising the ceiling of maximum performance."
Sure, it's triple the base MSRP of the RTX 4090 but if that's what you do to make $$$, you buy the Quadro RTX A6000, not the RTX 4090. Incidentally, there's no game that this Quadro would have trouble running at 4K max.
I'm curious what the breakdown of professional vs. purely recreational whale gamer purchases are at these high prices.
Because of the existence of Quadro, I'm willing to bet that the RTX 4090 was bought up almost exclusively by rich gamers, YouTube-grade content creators and Twitch streamers. Content creators who are what I like to call "Pixar-grade" would laugh at the idea of using a GeForce card for their work. They use almost exclusively Quadro and (to a lesser extent) Radeon Pro cards. Real workstation cards just have different priorities than gaming cards, priorities that more closely align with top-shelf content creators.

Therefore, I have serious doubts that any professionals who do nothing but create graphics all day or edit recorded video would be interested in dropping that kind of money for a card that was primarily built for gaming. It would be like a professional choosing an Ryzen 9 7950 or i9-13900K over a Threadripper TR-5995WX.

It's not that I don't ever see it happening, I just don't see it happening enough to be statistically more than zero.
 

Avro Arrow

Posts: 3,392   +4,405
Record high inflation, recession on the horizon, hire freeze, mass layoffs, hmmmmm what could be the reason for people not buying high end GPUs? Absolutely no clue.
Yup, totally. That's why I tell anyone who wants to do high-end gaming to get an RX 6800 XT and ignore everything else, especially the GeForce cards! The price/performance of the RX 6800 XT is essentially without equal when compared to the other high-end cards. Check out how insane this is:
ASRock Radeon RX 6800 XT Phantom Gaming D 16GB - $535 (Free Shipping, -$20 MIB)
Move sideways to the RTX 3080 to get 3% more performance and 6GB less VRAM all while paying 45% more money:
EVGA XC3 ULTRA GAMING GeForce RTX 3080 10GB - $776 (incl. $18 shipping)
The 12GB model is even worse with roughly the same performance as the 10GB RTX 3080 (maybe 1-2% more) but costs 56% more than the RX 6800 XT but now only has a 4GB VRAM handicap:
EVGA XC3 ULTRA GAMING GeForce RTX 3080 12GB - $836 (incl. $18 shipping)
Add the letters "Ti" to make things even worse because now you're paying an extra 62% but only getting 15% more performance while still having a 4GB VRAM defecit:
EVGA XC3 ULTRA GAMING iCX3 GeForce RTX 3080 Ti 12GB - $866 (incl. $18 shipping)
Just when you thought it couldn't get any worse, the RTX 3090 offers you 8GB more VRAM and a performance increase of 16% but demands a price premium of....94%!
EVGA FTW3 ULTRA GAMING GeForce RTX 3090 24GB - $1,036 (incl. $18 shipping)
I'm going to ignore the RTX 3090 Ti because the cheapest one on PCPartPicker showed $1,449 on Amazon (which turned out to be $1,679) so there's no point there.

In the new generation, the RTX 4080 has a big performance uplift of 46% but with the same amount of VRAM. The problem is the 137% increase in cost:
Gigabyte GAMING OC GeForce RTX 4080 16 GB - $1,270 (Free Shipping)
And then of course the RTX 4090 which offers a massive performance uplift of 82% with the same 8GB increase in VRAM as the RTX 3090 but is only available from Amazon (scalpers, I assume) for the cost of the RX 6800 XT plus an extra 320% (not a joke):
Gigabyte WINDFORCE GeForce RTX 4090 24GB - $2,250 (shipping unknown)

Now, I'm not going to just dump on nVidia here because higher-end Radeons are also bad values. To quantify that statement, they're bad values but nowhere near as terrible as the GeForce cards. For example, the RX 6900 XT is only 9% more performance while paying 22% more money (but that's still cheaper than the RTX 3080 which is a slower card):
ASRock Phantom Gaming D OC Radeon RX 6900 XT 16GB - $655 (Free Shipping)
Compared to the nVidia offerings, the RX 6900 XT looks astonishingly reasonable, but I'd still take the 6800 XT over it. I would take the 6900 XT over ALL of the GeForce offerings however. The GeForce cards are just completely out to lunch. It does get somewhat worse though for Team Red because the RX 6950 XT gives only a 15% performance increase for a price increase of 46%. The performance of the RX 6950 XT matches that of the RTX 3080 Ti but it only costs $4 more than the RTX 3080 10GB:
ASRock OC Formula Radeon RX 6950 XT 16 GB - $780 (-$20 MIB, Free Shipping)
Plus, you get two free games with the Radeons (Dead Island 2 and The Callisto Protocol).

I think that should be enough to convince anyone with more than 2 brain cells that buying a GeForce card right now is a terrible idea unless you're rich enough that it really doesn't matter to you.
 

ddferrari

Posts: 631   +326
TechSpot Elite
I landed the 3080 12GB model, which also has a few more cores and a 384 vs 320 bus for the same cost as any 10GB model. Other than above 60fps 4K, this card is more than enough for just about everyone.

At 3440x1440p or below, it will give everything you need for quite a few years to come. I prefer to buy new cards with full 3-yr warranties, and knowing they haven't been flogged by miners.
 
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