Amazon in-van surveillance under fire as videos appear on Reddit

[midian182]

Why it matters: Amazon's controversial use of cameras in its delivery vans is drawing even more criticism after a slew of in-van surveillance videos appeared on Reddit. While the videos themselves are innocent, it has brought more debate over the constant monitoring of drivers and the privacy implications of this practice.

Back in early 2021, Amazon added to the public criticism of how it treats employees when it started using AI-equipped cameras to warn drivers if they're breaking road rules or engaging in unsafe practices. The footage is also used by Amazon for evaluation purposes, and the cameras may take photographs of the driver for security or identity verification purposes.

There was more anger after it was revealed delivery personnel had to sign a "Vehicle Technology and Biometric Consent" agreement, as a "condition of delivering Amazon packages," meaning they couldn't deliver packages without agreeing to be monitored.

Now, Vice reports that a wave of in-van videos has landed on Reddit, some of them featuring monitor screens that were recorded on phones.

In one video posted on the r/AmazonDSPDrivers subreddit on July 3, a monitor can be seen on a desk showing an Amazon driver in a van. There's also a timecode, a speed indicator showing 0 MPH, and a green box representing the AI tracking system.

The clip shows a small French bulldog jumping into the van and on the driver's lap, prompting those watching to have a discussion about what its breed might be. Four different voices take part in the conversation.

Bruh!!! Stop sign infraction how????
by u/Lonchera_frequencia in AmazonDSPDrivers

Vice writes that the desk setup in the video suggests it is an Amazon delivery service partner (DSP). These courier contractors usually operate out of Amazon warehouses, where they are given a desk like the one in the video to, among other things, monitor drivers' actions on the road.

Many of the clips, some taken directly from the recordings themselves, are being posted by those who aren't the subject of the videos. It's unclear who posts them or how they gained access. One current Amazon delivery driver said that the drivers themselves did not have access to the videos.

The cameras, which operate 100 percent of the time, don't record audio and can't be used to watch drivers in real time. They feature artificial intelligence that identifies 16 signals based on what's happening around the van and a driver's actions. Anything illegal, such as failing to stop or speeding, will trigger audio responses, including "No stop detected" and "Please slow down." Unsafe driving such as braking too hard won't bring audio alerts but will see the footage uploaded to a secure portal for Amazon to examine. The company, a driver, and a DSP can also request an upload.

As per The Verge, Amazon's privacy policy states that recorded footage is available to DSPs via a secure portal, and that it only shares such information with other Amazon entities that have approved access.

"Delivery service partners have access to the Netradyne portal where the in-vehicle cameras automatically upload video content when there is a safety incident," Amazon spokesperson Simone Griffin told Vice. "Delivery service partners can choose to share the video footage with their employees. However, for privacy reasons, publishing the content externally is a violation of program policies."

Permalink to story.

https://www.techspot.com/news/99440-amazon-van-surveillance-under-fire-videos-appear-reddit.html

 

[p51d007]

Well, if enough people DO NOT like that, then Amazon will not have enough drivers to deliver packages.
Obviously there are more than enough drivers that don't care, or need the money.
I'm surprised the "if you don't have anything to hide" crowd hasn't said what's the big deal.

 

[mrvco]

Considering how widespread video surveillance is now in both public and work spaces, this just seems to be more selective outrage-mongering than anything. Check out the 1:1 surveillance video of the last (and every) time you went through the self check-out at your local grocery store.

 

[m4a4]

I'm failing to see how this is any different than cameras setup in an office building. And it's not like the driver owns the van, the company does...

 

[nismo91]

The world is funny sometimes.

people who don't want to be monitored are willing to buy tesla or become an uber driver or go sign up for a job driving around vehicles carrying valuable stuff belonging to other people.

those who doesn't mind being monitored, drive around in a beater wishing they could afford a modern car with two-way dashcam.

if a delivery driver doesn't want to be monitored then he/she should not be a delivery driver period. if they don't like interior cameras then they sure as hell wouldn't like doorbell cameras either.

 

[DSirius]

I'm failing to see how this is any different than cameras setup in an office building. And it's not like the driver owns the van, the company does...

If it was a chinese company instead of Amazon or Amazon's contractors, this would be labeled as totalitarian surveillance by lame amercian propaganda.
If there are american companies involved, it is just corporate american totalitarian surveillance, no need to worry.
As corporate capitalist propaganda claims, if you have nothing to hide why protesting?

 

[Theinsanegamer]

I'm failing to see how this is any different than cameras setup in an office building. And it's not like the driver owns the van, the company does...

Does your office have a camera directly above every cubicle, every common space, ece? And is that video available on reddit?

No?

Then they are not the same.

Considering how widespread video surveillance is now in both public and work spaces, this just seems to be more selective outrage-mongering than anything. Check out the 1:1 surveillance video of the last (and every) time you went through the self check-out at your local grocery store.

Your employer doesnt use the footage from the grocery store to dock your pay or fail your evaluation. There is a HUGE difference there.

Amazon already pushes unrealistic workloads onto people, then uses these cameras to punish people for doing what they can to meet unrealistic deadlines. Nothing is done to fix those deadlines of course.

 

[m4a4]

Does your office have a camera directly above every cubicle, every common space, ece? And is that video available on reddit?

No?

Then they are not the same.

You act like big offices have never had surveillance on their workers over the past decades. And then smart trucking/delivery companies also have surveillance (along with other things like sensors) on their vehicles for both the driver's safety and for checking liability. I can see that using AI to monitor the video feeds puts Amazon in a weird position, but lets not pretend that this is something new to the industry as a whole.

And any office video surveillance could be leaked online by whoever has access to it. That point is moot, considering someone is just being unprofessional.

Edit: And keep in mind that a vehicle is an expensive asset. A cubicle? Not so much...

 

[waclark]

Does your office have a camera directly above every cubicle, every common space, ece? And is that video available on reddit?

No?

Then they are not the same.
Your employer doesnt use the footage from the grocery store to dock your pay or fail your evaluation. There is a HUGE difference there.

Amazon already pushes unrealistic workloads onto people, then uses these cameras to punish people for doing what they can to meet unrealistic deadlines. Nothing is done to fix those deadlines of course.

I used to work as security in a Department Store some years ago (long before the Internet was a thing). We had cameras above every cash register in the store. We had other cameras that could be set up to automatically scan an area of the store and record everything that went on, whether it was employees or customers. Those cameras were used to prosecute employees and customers who stole from the company.

The video being on Reddit is not the company's fault and whomever posted them should be fired. The issue is if some Amazon driver gets into a car wreck, Amazon could be sued. Likewise, it's not like we haven't see plenty of Ring videos of Amazon drivers throwing packages onto porches or even worse. I knew a guy who worked for DHL. He used to brag about tossing (more like aggressively throwing) cell phone packages onto the porch. He always said it was job protection because many of the phones would get damaged and he would have to pick up the bad ones and deliver new one, which also might get damaged. He was eventually fired when he was seen kicking someone's very expensive computer monitor down the loading dock to his truck.

Do you suppose that these companies just spend the money to put cams into the trucks because everything is working fine and there are no problems, or maybe it's because they are experiencing excessive returns from damaged products, products not being delivered to the right place or packages going missing?

 

[kira setsu]

I guess you could just go out and buy your own crap then if this bothers you so much.

btw, damn near everything you own is watching you in some form
-your laptop
-your phone
-your xbox
-watch
-tv
-some random camera in someones yard
-that creepy dude in the bushes
-a ghost

youre always being watched.

 

[Theinsanegamer]

You act like big offices have never had surveillance on their workers over the past decades. And then smart trucking/delivery companies also have surveillance (along with other things like sensors) on their vehicles for both the driver's safety and for checking liability. I can see that using AI to monitor the video feeds puts Amazon in a weird position, but lets not pretend that this is something new to the industry as a whole.

And any office video surveillance could be leaked online by whoever has access to it. That point is moot, considering someone is just being unprofessional.

Edit: And keep in mind that a vehicle is an expensive asset. A cubicle? Not so much...

You act like having security cameras in the room is the same as having a personal camera on every employee. Stop making excuses for the multi billion dollar corporation that treats its employees like dirt.

I guess you could just go out and buy your own crap then if this bothers you so much.

btw, damn near everything you own is watching you in some form
-your laptop
-your phone
-your xbox
-watch
-tv
-some random camera in someones yard
-that creepy dude in the bushes
-a ghost

youre always being watched.

"Guys there are other privacy and security issues, so this issue doesnt matter!"

Solid 50 IQ take. Last time I checked, my laptop isnt following me around uploading what I do to my employer's HR department. My TV doesnt report my thoughts to the Ministry of Right Think. Ghosts are not real,a nd a creepy dude in the bushes is commiting a crime.

 

[m4a4]

You act like having security cameras in the room is the same as having a personal camera on every employee. Stop making excuses for the multi billion dollar corporation that treats its employees like dirt.

This isn't a personal camera on every employee. Don't be disingenuous here because you have no proper rebuttal.
Again, any smart company with a fleet of vehicles is going to have at minimum a camera facing the driver, and one facing the road. To prove any liability if an accident occurs.

Use some basic logic here and stop making irrational arguments then pretending that just because it's a multi billion dollar company you're allowed to do so without being called out...

 

[dirtyferret]

These people are not amazon employees but are contractors and not for amazon but for delivery services that have contracts with Amazon (and Amazon only). The whole thing is one giant scheme to keep labor costs down to the bare minimum.

As per Amazon

Important context is needed here to understand how Amazon’s delivery system works. Amazon contracts third-party delivery companies, which are known as delivery service partners (DSPs) and are often small businesses, to deliver its packages out of its warehouses. The DSPs are responsible for hiring and training drivers, dispatching routes, and maintaining vehicles, according to statements from Amazon previously provided to Motherboard. The actual delivery drivers, in turn, are employed by the DSP, though their work in Amazon facilities to deliver Amazon packages, and how they work, when, and how much they get paid is largely determined by terms Amazon sets with the DSP.

 

[kiwigraeme]

The world is funny sometimes.

people who don't want to be monitored are willing to buy tesla or become an uber driver or go sign up for a job driving around vehicles carrying valuable stuff belonging to other people.

those who doesn't mind being monitored, drive around in a beater wishing they could afford a modern car with two-way dashcam.

if a delivery driver doesn't want to be monitored then he/she should not be a delivery driver period. if they don't like interior cameras then they sure as hell wouldn't like doorbell cameras either.

Use to make me laugh that TV program on Doomsday preppers - showing all their prep etc
you would think for the hardcore ones - the first rule of doomsday preppers....... - like you have 5 years supply in your house and you live just out of town from me.

 

[RudyBob]

There is no privacy right when at work unless you are in the can

 

[Gezzer]

To everyone saying that other CCT monitoring is the same they're very wrong.

In most settings it's a security feature. It's there to have a record of anything that might be dangerous and/or illegal or suspected of it. Normal CCT does not correct behaviour in real time. It requires being observed by someone and then once all the facts are in, action is taken if called for.

The Amazon system presumes all those being observed are always quilty and there's no such thing as extenuating circumstances. It's an attempt to robotize real humans and if allowed will only get worse. It's as bad as monitoring software on work computers.

Taken to the logical extent, eventually we'll all have state/employer supplied earpieces, and our lives we'll be a constant AI CCT monitoring of our actions with immediate admonishing when the "man" decides it's needed. Get use to the idea of having 5 minutes to take a cr*p or getting in trouble for wasting company time.

Why am I not surprised Amazon came up with this?

 

[waclark]

You act like having security cameras in the room is the same as having a personal camera on every employee. Stop making excuses for the multi billion dollar corporation that treats its employees like dirt.
"Guys there are other privacy and security issues, so this issue doesnt matter!"

Solid 50 IQ take. Last time I checked, my laptop isnt following me around uploading what I do to my employer's HR department. My TV doesnt report my thoughts to the Ministry of Right Think. Ghosts are not real,a nd a creepy dude in the bushes is commiting a crime.

It's a security camera at a place of work. The truck is a work truck, not your private vehicle. It's the same as any workplace camera. I guess you're OK with employees treating the corporation (and its customers) like dirt by trashing their packages, delivering them to the wrong address or just outright stealing them? Seems a bit hypocritical.

Is your laptop provided by your employer? How do you know it's not uploading browsing history? Last time I checked your company email admin has access to every email you send and recieve and all of that can easily be supplied to management. Also, is your TV a Samsung? Because you may recall they got sued over listening in to customer's living room conversations. And don't forget that Amazon admits that people are listening to your Alexa conversations.

There is a big difference between someone invading your private life, which you have every right to keep private and someone monitoring your workplace activities, where you have no right to privacy. This is not an invasion of your personal space.

 

[godrilla]

If you have the ring app with neighborhood notifications you can see that packages get stolen all the time. Imagine a whole truck full of packaged goods without surveillance getting stolen and the employer or the insurance has to constantly pay the consumer or seller for the missing packages because the driver wants privacy while they are on the clock. If it was your own business and someone was spying on you that's one thing but an employer who has to pay out for missing merchandise, driving accidents for bad driving insurance claims and or slacking on the job yeah I don't see the problem.

 

[brucek]

If I was a driver I'd want all this on video. YouTube and the news is full of robberies, car jackings, and questionable police activities. This very site has semi-regular articles on customer v. Amazon disputes as to whether the box ever had say the expensive camera lens in it. As an honest person, I'd appreciate having hard-to-dispute video proof that whatever the problem was, it wasn't me.

As to petty workplace monitoring, if my boss wanted to complain about my reasonable need to sneeze, or number of miliseconds to pick up a package, or whatever, my stance would be the same as its always been for any employer or any job - if you don't want me, I don't want you. Someone will appreciate me.

Amazon delivery in particular has seemed like a constant uphill battle for them to maintain the workforce capacity they need -- ultimately they face plenty of pressure as far as setting standards that large numbers of workers can meet.

 

[3volv3d]

Hilarious, you're all having the wrong conversation.
Chicken and the egg people.
Amazon trucks = Capitalism.
Need to do away with this BS world that has been pushed upon us.
It's amazing to watch so many people happy to Conform, Consume, and Obey.
We're against slavery, but we want to buy shiny things, so enslave me, make a me do a job that ruins the planet more and more and more yaaay.
And this is why the Human Race is gonna lose this one.

Besides to be more on topic cause apparently that matters, bo lux.
Chinese cameras, in Amazon vehicles, backdoored, feeding communistic AI intelligence, for Chinese Battlebots to have heaps of information for when they get deployed at a harbor.

It would have been pearl harbor but it was shiny so someone bought it.

 

[b1k3rdude]

And it's not like the driver owns the van, the company does...

Er no, most delivery vehicles are owned by the driver, so even more of a violation of privacy.

 

[b1k3rdude]

Imagine a whole truck full of packaged goods without surveillance getting stolen.

Monitoring the package compartment is one thing, the drivers area is another thing entirely. Lorry drivers arent survellied like this...

 

[godrilla]

 

Monitoring the package compartment is one thing, the drivers area is another thing entirely. Lorry drivers arent survellied like this...

Did we really expect any different from a company that would replace the workforce with ai in a blink of an eye? Amazon is one of those crony monopolies that owns the press Washington post, the food we eat Whole foods, Government contracts, Mass data storage services, ring company, manufacturing in ch!na copycat products from hdmi cable to microwaves, they have Amazon eats delivery services etc etc. Complaining while not without merit will only facilitate the inevitable of an ai workforce in my personal outlook.

 

[GoldenGoat]

These people are not amazon employees but are contractors and not for amazon but for delivery services that have contracts with Amazon (and Amazon only). The whole thing is one giant scheme to keep labor costs down to the bare minimum.

As per Amazon

Important context is needed here to understand how Amazon’s delivery system works. Amazon contracts third-party delivery companies, which are known as delivery service partners (DSPs) and are often small businesses, to deliver its packages out of its warehouses. The DSPs are responsible for hiring and training drivers, dispatching routes, and maintaining vehicles, according to statements from Amazon previously provided to Motherboard. The actual delivery drivers, in turn, are employed by the DSP, though their work in Amazon facilities to deliver Amazon packages, and how they work, when, and how much they get paid is largely determined by terms Amazon sets with the DSP.

The DSP setup seems like a scheme to remove liability off Amazon and put it on a small company that could just declare bankruptcy and shut down whenever someone sues them. Then they can just start a new DSP company and pick up where they left off.

 

[m4a4]

Er no, most delivery vehicles are owned by the driver, so even more of a violation of privacy.

At best you're thinking of trucking. And there's no way that most delivery vans are owned by the drivers

Or, at best, you've ignorantly missed the North American context of this article...