AMD is showing every sign of supporting AM4 for the foreseeable future

[emorphy]

Forward-looking: AMD will keep supporting the AM4 platform until the cost of producing older DDR4 memory becomes more expensive than that of DDR5, said Donny Woligroski, AMD's technical marketing manager. As for migrating to AM5, that's for people "who want to tee up for the future."

AMD's AM4 user base can rest easy regarding any doubts about the support the company will give to the platform. Not only did it announce four more AM4 processors at CES this year – the Ryzen 7 5700X3D, Ryzen 7 5700, Ryzen 5 5600GT, and Ryzen 5 5500GT – but AMD's Donny Woligroski flat out told PC World that the company would continue to support the platform for the time being, or at least until the cost of producing the older DDR4 memory becomes greater than that of DDR5.

But doesn't the company want people to upgrade to AM5? Most certainly, but Woligroski made it clear that AM5 is for those with an eye on the future.

It's been over a year since the launch of Ryzen 7000 processors and the first AM5 motherboards – ample time for users to decide whether to upgrade or stick with AM4. While AM5 boasts the latest memory and PCIe standards, there are compelling reasons to stick with AM4. That now includes the ongoing support provided by the company.

These reasons range from the difficulty of moving to a whole new socket architecture and the additional hardware you would have to buy to support AMD's current platform, to the lower expenses associated with AM4 and, at least in the early days of AM5's release, certain reliability issues.

To be fair, many of these issues have been resolved as AM5 got its sea legs. For instance, when AM5 first launched, the relationship with its AGESA microcode and the DDR5 memory standard could be best described as rocky: there were SOC voltage issues and instability above specific frequencies, problems that prevented users from pushing the limits of DDR5's capabilities.

Then in July 2023, several AM5 motherboard manufacturers began rolling out AMD's new AGESA update. According to reports from AM5 users and overclockers that received the update, the new firmware substantially increased AM5's overall DDR5 compatibility and support.

AMD plans to support AM5 for the next couple of years at least, according to an interview corporate VP and GM of the client channel business, David Mcafee, had with Overclockers UK. In fact, he said AMD believes the longevity of the AM4 platform was one of the biggest factors behind Ryzen's success and that AMD will think carefully about moving to a next-gen socket. They want to stay on AM5 for as long as possible, he said.

"We are firmly committed to 2025 and beyond and we will see how long that promise lasts beyond 2025," the executive added.

Permalink to story.

https://www.techspot.com/news/101586-amd-showing-every-sign-supporting-am4-foreseeable-future.html

 

[Theinsanegamer]

Long socket support is great, I sure hope we dont have the issues on AM5 that we had on AM4, EG having to fight AMD to support the 3000 and 5000 series on 300 and 400 series boards.

 

[takaozo]

AM4 and AMD is like Bruce Willis in Die hard.

 

[yRaz]

Long socket support is great, I sure hope we dont have the issues on AM5 that we had on AM4, EG having to fight AMD to support the 3000 and 5000 series on 300 and 400 series boards.

Well the problem with supporting the 300 and 400 series motherboards with 5000 series chips is that the bios wasn't large enough to hold the firmware update while also supporting older architectures. And while they do technically support the 5000 series chips I think it's only Asrock and Gigabyte who released firmware updates for their motherboards supporting the 5000 series on 300 series chipsets. This also has the problem of once you update the firmware the board nolonger (offically) supports chips other than the 5000 series. So if you have a bunch of zen1 chips laying around, like I do, you can no longer use them in boards with updated firmware.

There are good reasons the 5000 series wasn't supported and still isn't supported on many 300 series motherboards.

 

[Theinsanegamer]

Well the problem with supporting the 300 and 400 series motherboards with 5000 series chips is that the bios wasn't large enough to hold the firmware update while also supporting older architectures.

So, the multi million dollar AMD, whom intended to support multiple generations of CPU, didnt think to mandate enough memory to hold the firmware needed. jeneus!. Like I said, hopefully AMD has learned from their previous idiocy

And while they do technically support the 5000 series chips I think it's only Asrock and Gigabyte who released firmware updates for their motherboards supporting the 5000 series on 300 series chipsets. This also has the problem of once you update the firmware the board nolonger (offically) supports chips other than the 5000 series. So if you have a bunch of zen1 chips laying around, like I do, you can no longer use them in boards with updated firmware.

There are good reasons the 5000 series wasn't supported and still isn't supported on many 300 series motherboards.

Right, you miss the main reason, which is that AMD has never released a full official AGESA for 300 series with 5000 series support, they did some of the work, labeled it as "beta", then threw it to OEMs to take the final risk of implementation and support.

Remember: AMD promised to "support AM4 through 2020" then backtracked and the ONLY reason we have what we have was the outrage from their customers potentially screwed over. Somehow this is supposed to reassure me, where early adopters still havent received what was promised despite AMD " showing every sign of supporting AM4"? SURELY they wouldnt have "good reasons" to not support the 600 series in the future, right? Will they pull the same BS a second time? It is now on AMD to prove they are beyond the sub zero IQ moves they used to pull.

 

[yRaz]

So, the multi million dollar AMD, whom intended to support multiple generations of CPU, didnt think to mandate enough memory to hold the firmware needed. jeneus!. Like I said, hopefully AMD has learned from their previous idiocy


Right, you miss the main reason, which is that AMD has never released a full official AGESA for 300 series with 5000 series support, they did some of the work, labeled it as "beta", then threw it to OEMs to take the final risk of implementation and support.

Remember: AMD promised to "support AM4 through 2020" then backtracked and the ONLY reason we have what we have was the outrage from their customers potentially screwed over. Somehow this is supposed to reassure me, where early adopters still havent received what was promised despite AMD " showing every sign of supporting AM4"? SURELY they wouldnt have "good reasons" to not support the 600 series in the future, right? Will they pull the same BS a second time? It is now on AMD to prove they are beyond the sub zero IQ moves they used to pull.

They couldn't have predicted that zen 3, which wasn't even in development at the time of the 300 series chipsets release, would take up more memory to operate correctly in the firmware than all of the previous generations combined.

Damned if they do damned if they don't. If they don't support it people get mad, if they try to support it then people also get mad. Nothing was stopping motherboard makers from putting a larger bios on the boards.

I'm probably the only one on this forum that runs a 5000 series on a 300 series chipset anyway.

 

[Theinsanegamer]

They couldn't have predicted that zen 3, which wasn't even in development at the time of the 300 series chipsets release, would take up more memory to operate correctly in the firmware than all of the previous generations combined.

Damned if they do damned if they don't. If they don't support it people get mad, if they try to support it then people also get mad. Nothing was stopping motherboard makers from putting a larger bios on the boards.

I'm probably the only one on this forum that runs a 5000 series on a 300 series chipset anyway.

So, again, poor planning on AMD's part. They knew how much storage was needed for 1 gen, and couldnt multiply it by 5. Man math sure is hard!

No excuse. If they promised to support the socket through 2020, then they need to plan and act accordingly. Let's stop making excuses for the multi billion dollar corpo! This doesnt excuse AMD never releasing the certified AGESA for the 5000/300 compatibility problem. OEMs managed it just fine on 400 series, certian BIOSes are needed for certian CPUs. So why did AMD leave the 300 series out to dry? You know why so few run 5000 on a 300 series board? Because AMD didnt support it properly.

So now we have precedence that AMD isnt going to plan appropriately, and will find excuses to not support their older chipsets. Are you willing to bet the $600+ that an AM5 upgrade costs that AMD will change their behavior? If their GPU department is any indication, these issues will continue to crop up.

I also take issue with your claim of "Nothing was stopping motherboard makers from putting a larger bios on the boards. ". There ARE 300 series boards with sufficient memory. There are plenty of 400 series boards with sufficient memory. So why didnt AMD release their AGESA? Why was the 400 series going to be abandoned with the ryzen 5000 lineup? Clearly, the memory limitation isnt the issue. AMD's unwillingness to support their older hardware? Now THAT is the issue, and for some reason people will find any number of excuses for it!

 

[AndreV]

Well the problem with supporting the 300 and 400 series motherboards with 5000 series chips is that the bios wasn't large enough to hold the firmware update while also supporting older architectures. And while they do technically support the 5000 series chips I think it's only Asrock and Gigabyte who released firmware updates for their motherboards supporting the 5000 series on 300 series chipsets. This also has the problem of once you update the firmware the board nolonger (offically) supports chips other than the 5000 series. So if you have a bunch of zen1 chips laying around, like I do, you can no longer use them in boards with updated firmware.

There are good reasons the 5000 series wasn't supported and still isn't supported on many 300 series motherboards.

I dont know about 300 series but MSI B450 TOMAHAWK MAX II, having that 32MB BIOS bank, it supports all Ryzen CPUs from 1000 series up to 5000.
"Supports 1st, 2nd and 3rd Gen AMD Ryzen™/ Ryzen™ with Radeon™ Vega Graphics and 2nd Gen AMD Ryzen™ with Radeon™ Graphics/ Athlon™ with Radeon™ Vega Graphics Desktop Processors for Socket AM4"
and
"BIOS Description:
- Updated AMD AGESA ComboAm4v2PI 1.2.0.0
- Optimized and support AMD Ryzen 5000 series processors."

 

[Nobina]

I dont know about 300 series but MSI B450 TOMAHAWK MAX II, having that 32MB BIOS bank, it supports all Ryzen CPUs from 1000 series up to 5000.
"Supports 1st, 2nd and 3rd Gen AMD Ryzen™/ Ryzen™ with Radeon™ Vega Graphics and 2nd Gen AMD Ryzen™ with Radeon™ Graphics/ Athlon™ with Radeon™ Vega Graphics Desktop Processors for Socket AM4"
and
"BIOS Description:
- Updated AMD AGESA ComboAm4v2PI 1.2.0.0
- Optimized and support AMD Ryzen 5000 series processors."

I have B450 Tomahawk Max 1st gen and Ryzen 5 5600X on it.

 

[Lew Zealand]

Well the problem with supporting the 300 and 400 series motherboards with 5000 series chips is that the bios wasn't large enough to hold the firmware update while also supporting older architectures. And while they do technically support the 5000 series chips I think it's only Asrock and Gigabyte who released firmware updates for their motherboards supporting the 5000 series on 300 series chipsets.

No.

Running an R5 5500 on an MSi B350 board right now and it's a cheap as hell mobo too. I'd bet that all major board manufacturers have 300 boards support 5000 series CPUs, but very likely not all 300s.

 

[Neatfeatguy]

Too bad they didn't end up producing the 5900X3D, I would have picked one up.

 

[veLa]

I love AMD’s long socket support. I extended my build’s life by dropping in a 5900X to replace my 2700X.

I do want to upgrade to an AM5 or LGA 1700 system solely because of the upgrade bug, but then I remember to fight the itch.

 

[yRaz]

So, again, poor planning on AMD's part. They knew how much storage was needed for 1 gen, and couldnt multiply it by 5. Man math sure is hard!

No excuse. If they promised to support the socket through 2020, then they need to plan and act accordingly. Let's stop making excuses for the multi billion dollar corpo! This doesnt excuse AMD never releasing the certified AGESA for the 5000/300 compatibility problem. OEMs managed it just fine on 400 series, certian BIOSes are needed for certian CPUs. So why did AMD leave the 300 series out to dry? You know why so few run 5000 on a 300 series board? Because AMD didnt support it properly.

So now we have precedence that AMD isnt going to plan appropriately, and will find excuses to not support their older chipsets. Are you willing to bet the $600+ that an AM5 upgrade costs that AMD will change their behavior? If their GPU department is any indication, these issues will continue to crop up.

I also take issue with your claim of "Nothing was stopping motherboard makers from putting a larger bios on the boards. ". There ARE 300 series boards with sufficient memory. There are plenty of 400 series boards with sufficient memory. So why didnt AMD release their AGESA? Why was the 400 series going to be abandoned with the ryzen 5000 lineup? Clearly, the memory limitation isnt the issue. AMD's unwillingness to support their older hardware? Now THAT is the issue, and for some reason people will find any number of excuses for it!

The crap you're saying takes away from the engineering feat they managed to pull off. Either zen3 would be slower to accommodate all 300 series mobos or they could have knocked it out of the park on bleeding edge tech. Either way, there are people like yourself who would call AMD losers regardless of what they do.

 

[ruddevil]

They couldn't have predicted that zen 3, which wasn't even in development at the time of the 300 series chipsets release, would take up more memory to operate correctly in the firmware than all of the previous generations combined.

Damned if they do damned if they don't. If they don't support it people get mad, if they try to support it then people also get mad. Nothing was stopping motherboard makers from putting a larger bios on the boards.

I'm probably the only one on this forum that runs a 5000 series on a 300 series chipset anyway.

You're not alone, friend.

https://valid.x86.fr/dyrh08

 

[koblongata]

This is why humanity is worth preserving, thank you, AMD

 

[Nintenboy01]

Long socket support is great, I sure hope we dont have the issues on AM5 that we had on AM4, EG having to fight AMD to support the 3000 and 5000 series on 300 and 400 series boards.

AM5 can actually have weird issues with RAM and stability if you clamp down a cooler too tight. Seems to be a drawback of LGA sockets in general.

 

[hahahanoobs]

I'd have to watch it again, but I'm almost sure dude said AM4 is still supported, at least in part, because Intel still offers DDR4.

 

[Crunch]

Asus supported the 5000 series as well.
Currently running an 5800X3D in an Asus x370 Pro.

 

[Jack77]

Guys, AMD just says that they further support the socket because they have chiplets that they want to sell in AM4 CPU's. It's just saying what people want to hear to give them a positive feeling about the brand and a possible purchase. (And sometimes also a negative feeling about a competitor that doesn't "do this".)

Btw, Intel, Nvidia... They all do the same.

 

[Vulcanproject]

This is more than just CPU sales, it's a halo effect. Keeping people inside your ecosystem because they're happy you look so far into the future no matter what AMD platform they buy is brand building for sure.

By keeping older platforms active this long they encourage people to continue buying any of them knowing they will be able to trade up their CPU possibly multiple times in a system's life.

Almost how well Sony manage transitions of console generations, the tail end of one feeds customers into the next gradually and they're more inclined to stay with you if you do it properly.

 

[scavengerspc]

Like I said, hopefully AMD has learned from their previous idiocy

Intel should achieve such levels of idiocy.

 

[mattferg]

This is more than just CPU sales, it's a halo effect. Keeping people inside your ecosystem because they're happy you look so far into the future no matter what AMD platform they buy is brand building for sure.

By keeping older platforms active this long they encourage people to continue buying any of them knowing they will be able to trade up their CPU possibly multiple times in a system's life.

Almost how well Sony manage transitions of console generations, the tail end of one feeds customers into the next gradually and they're more inclined to stay with you if you do it properly.

Not quite sure what reality you’re living in with the last paragraph - Sony is one of the worst players for console generation changes, actively ignoring older users and backwards compatibility. Microsoft lets you play older generation games and carry over controllers. Sony does not.

 

[Burty117]

Almost how well Sony manage transitions of console generations, the tail end of one feeds customers into the next gradually and they're more inclined to stay with you if you do it properly.

Sony was literally the worst example you could have given.

 

[wiyosaya]

Intel should achieve such levels of idiocy.

The good thing about this, IMO, is that Intel will have to respond. So far, their "response" to AMD is to come out with more and more processors that are wasting more and more energy - yet we still have people turning to Intel.

With AMD's very public support of an "old platform," IF Intel has any brains at all in management, Intel will have to change its strategy of chipset churn, making it look like they are staying profitable, to follow AMD because, IMO, AMD's strategy is more consumer friendly.

I wonder how far AMD will take AM5 support?

 

[wiyosaya]

So, again, poor planning on AMD's part. They knew how much storage was needed for 1 gen, and couldnt multiply it by 5. Man math sure is hard!

I'm with @yRaz on this. It was MB makers' choice to put in a "small" EEROM. Scraping every $0.01 out of your customers has become a default mode of operation for most companies.