red1776 - I'm reading that Guru3D (an excellent review website by the way - I check it all the time) comparison you posted.
I guess I'm not seeing the big blow-out of the GTX460 that you are. Yes, the 6870 does. But it also runs (in some cases) nearly $100 more than a 460 - a quick Google product search will verify that. I would expect a card costing that much more to win the comparisons race. It appears to me that the 6870 is more appropriately compared with the GTX470, not the 460.
As far as the 6850, yes it very moderately outperforms the GTX 460. I mean in most of those side by side comparisons, we're talking 5 fps or less difference. When you're already running a game at 60+ fps, that really means nothing. And the 6850 loses the battle in noise, power consumption and price.
Like a lot of other posters, I'd like to see a GTX460 SLI comparison. Not only is SLI superior to Crossfire (check Tom's Hardware for that comparison), but the 460's are cheaper now.
These cards are no doubt a nice move by AMD. But I don't see them by any stretch of the imagination as intimidating nVidia, and believe most enthusiasts building/upgrading at this time will still go with the 460 SLI set-up.
who said "blow out"? the numbers are the numbers.
Let me try this again:
in fact guru numbers show that:
The 6870 is 18.5% faster than the GTX 460
The 6850 is 7% faster than the GTX 460 (this is the review you cited)
Hardocp has the 6850 faster by 9%
Hardocp has the 6870 faster by 16%
Tech powerup has the 6850 faster by 3%
Techpower up has the 6870 faster by 18%
Thats an average of 17% over the 460, that's a wide margin for the 6870
the 6850 as you say "moderately outperforms" the 460, but all of this is my point.
Nvidia had their only sweet spot with the 460...now they do not, and it may not be conducive to 'price wars ' as so many think. Next month in all likelihood, AMD will take over the top end with the 6900 series. So back to my original point. Where is Nvidias sweet spot? and where is AMD's motive for cutting prices?
You have to work awfully hard to find a $100 spread between a 6870 and a 460. you can have a wide variety of 6870's for 239.00 and the average price of a 460 is $210. Not to mention that if you looked at the Guru3D review, you no doubt saw that the 6870 beat the 470 in every bench except the Far cry2 test. Then you have the 6850, which the reference cards are "slightly beating the 460" for the same price to 10-20$ less (which was the card that was going after the 460 in the first place)
as far as SLI vs Crossfire, i would like to see that comparison as well, but CF for the 6800 is improved, that has been demonstrated. But lets say that you are correct about SLI being superior. The problem with that is that you and I are in the vast minority. the last numbers i saw showed that CF/SLI users are less than 2%. its like physx or eyefinity, its not a consideration for most. You and I look at this stuff from an enthusiast point of view, and read reviews on an enthusiast sites, where they do enthusiast things like crossfire and SLI. most people don't know AMD launched a new line of graphic cards until they show up in best buy. there is a reason that AMD and Nvidia are working so hard on the "mainstrean segment" its because its where most of the cards are purchased and not by people who wait up to read the launch benches.
The fanboys can scream red and green at each other until they are blue in the face. this about market share, placement, and competition. i think that you can get within $20 of the 460 with a 6870, a card that was not even aimed at the 460 is compelling, and does not bode well for Nvidia.
I agree with this from Tom's:
It also remains to be seen if Nvidia can maintain the long-term price war it recently declared. Every single GeForce GTX 470 is equipped with a monolithic GF100 GPU in the 530 square millimeter range. That’s close to twice the size of the Radeon HD 6870’s 255 mm2 die. How long can Nvidia keep up such a numbers-based fight? Not long, we’d guess,
Just an opposing view to all of the drooling over the upcoming price wars, but AMD has Nvidia surrounded, and not much reason to cut prices....and it doesn't appear that Nvidia can afford it.
