China is determined to advance its technology despite US-led restrictions, Xi Jinping tells Dutch Prime Minister

[midian182]

What just happened? The US-led campaign to restrict China's access to advanced technologies will not deter its scientific and technological progress, according to President Xi Jinping, who made the statement during his meeting with Dutch Prime Minister Mark Rutte. The Netherlands restricted exports of ASML's advanced chipmaking equipment to China last year, a move prompted by the US.

Xi met Rutte on Wednesday for discussions relating to areas that included the semiconductor industry. "The Chinese people also have legitimate development rights, and no force can stop the pace of China's scientific and technological progress," said Xi, according to Xinhua News Agency. The president added that China will "continue to pursue a win-win approach."

ASML, the world's largest semiconductor equipment supplier by market cap, has been impacted by the Dutch government's export licensing requirements that were introduced in 2023.

At the start of the year, ASML announced that a license for the shipment of NXT:2050i and NXT:2100i lithography systems had been partially revoked by the Dutch government, impacting a small number of customers in China. The systems represent the company's most advanced DUV tools, capable of supporting 7nm and 5nm-class process technology with multi-patterning.

It remains uncertain whether ASML will be allowed to continue servicing the billions of dollars worth of advanced chipmaking equipment it has already sold to Chinese customers that now fall under the export restrictions when current licenses expire, writes Reuters. Rutte refused to comment on the matter.

China was ASML's second-largest customer in 2023, accounting for 29% of its revenue as Chinese companies rushed to buy its chipmaking equipment before the new licensing rules came into effect, writes Associated Press.

Rutte downplayed the tension between China and the Netherlands, claiming the restrictions are never aimed at one country specifically and the Dutch government always tries to ensure the impact is limited.

In addition to chipmaking equipment, the US has restricted the export of advanced AI products from the likes of Nvidia and AMD to China due to their potential use in military applications.

This week saw China announce it was phasing out Intel and AMD processors, along with the Windows OS, from its government computers in favor of "safe and reliable" CPUs and operating systems. The country has long aimed to lessen its reliance on overseas technologies in favor of domestic products.

Masthead: UN Geneva

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https://www.techspot.com/news/102421-china-determined-advance-technology-despite-us-led-restrictions.html

 

[Endymio]

Europe has been at relative peace so long that "national security concerns" is just a meaningless buzz-phrase to them. Perhaps when Chinese-made chips are enabling weapon systems to kill Dutch citizens, Amsterdam will realize otherwise.

 

[dangh]

There is no point to reduce shipment of ASML products to China - this will simply reduce ASML income, experience, and will result in China being slowed a bit for a few years, and intensify their own work on precise lithography (and they aren't far away from having great results).
The only real actions we still can take is to acknowledge Taiwan as a country to reduce Chinese territorial claims and clarify the status which is very blurred, protect the Taiwan technology and population, help the countries bordering China to ensure their integrity, and keep investing in the industry in north america and EU.
Trying to reduce China (and to be fair other countries in region) to only do cheap manual work, while trying to reduce their high tech options, wont work in longer run. Sure, Chinese gov is crazy, and population pretty much manipulated in years of propaganda, but you can't keep buying from them and put more limitations at the same time. Choose one.

 

[Beerfloat]

Europe has been at relative peace so long that "national security concerns" is just a meaningless buzz-phrase to them. Perhaps when Chinese-made chips are enabling weapon systems to kill Dutch citizens, Amsterdam will realize otherwise.

The Dutch have had foreign powers trotting into their territory for more than 2000 years, and yet others engaging them in maritime wars, with the likes of the Romans, Franks, Vikings, Spanish, English, French and Germans attacking, raiding and/or invading and claiming those lands. Those 70 years of relative peace are likely anything but meaningless to them, and part of the reason why they are reliable participants in so many UN or NATO-led actions during that time period, and take these boycotts seriously even to their own economic detriment. Perhaps a little less callousness would be appropriate.

 

[Endymio]

Those 70 years of relative peace are likely anything but meaningless to them, and part of the reason why they are reliable participants in so many UN or NATO-led actions during that time period, and take these boycotts seriously even to their own economic detriment. Perhaps a little less callousness would be appropriate.

You speak for all Dutch now? If the Netherlands "took these boycotts seriously", they'd implement them themselves, rather than be unwillingly forced into them by US action.

CNN, Jan 11, 2024 "...For several years, the Dutch government has faced pressure from the United States to limit chip-related exports to China....."

The Register: "Washington wants the Dutch government to stop the company servicing and repairing chipmaking equipment it has sold to customers in China....Bloomberg reports that Washington is unsurprisingly meeting resistance from allies, many of whom want to wait...."

Reuters: "During the March 26-27 [2024] visit, Dutch PM Rutte is expected to meet with Xi and premier Li Qiang. Dutch Trade Minister Geoffrey van Leeuwen is also attending and expected to meet with Chinese Trade Minister Wang Wentao....

"They will discuss economic cooperation opportunities, the importance of a level playing field, and the importance of equal market access," the Dutch government said..."

 

[winjer]

There is no point to reduce shipment of ASML products to China - this will simply reduce ASML income, experience, and will result in China being slowed a bit for a few years, and intensify their own work on precise lithography (and they aren't far away from having great results).
The only real actions we still can take is to acknowledge Taiwan as a country to reduce Chinese territorial claims and clarify the status which is very blurred, protect the Taiwan technology and population, help the countries bordering China to ensure their integrity, and keep investing in the industry in north america and EU.
Trying to reduce China (and to be fair other countries in region) to only do cheap manual work, while trying to reduce their high tech options, wont work in longer run. Sure, Chinese gov is crazy, and population pretty much manipulated in years of propaganda, but you can't keep buying from them and put more limitations at the same time. Choose one.

China has been placing a lot of restrictions on western companies for many years.
Let's not pretend that this is a one sided deal and that it's the west fault.
The only reason China wants ASML tech is to copy it and steal it.

 

[Uncle Al]

Sounds like it's time for the US to throw down the gauntlet and eliminate all Chinese technical products. Yes, it will be painful at first, but in the long run China will buckle without their major trading partner and we will eliminate all the Chinese BS they have been blowing under our skirt .....

 

[redgarl]

China can't compete with ASML, TSMC or any of the chip makers.

Even by doing Industrial espionage, they will never be able to catch on ALL these semi-conductor fields even with an infinite amount of money.

 

[redgarl]

Sounds like it's time for the US to throw down the gauntlet and eliminate all Chinese technical products. Yes, it will be painful at first, but in the long run China will buckle without their major trading partner and we will eliminate all the Chinese BS they have been blowing under our skirt .....

Beside their assembly lines, which most are Taiwanese like FOXCONN by the way, China has nothing.

Korea, Japan and Taiwan are the ones providing technologies.

 

[redgarl]

There is no point to reduce shipment of ASML products to China - this will simply reduce ASML income, experience, and will result in China being slowed a bit for a few years, and intensify their own work on precise lithography (and they aren't far away from having great results).
The only real actions we still can take is to acknowledge Taiwan as a country to reduce Chinese territorial claims and clarify the status which is very blurred, protect the Taiwan technology and population, help the countries bordering China to ensure their integrity, and keep investing in the industry in north america and EU.
Trying to reduce China (and to be fair other countries in region) to only do cheap manual work, while trying to reduce their high tech options, wont work in longer run. Sure, Chinese gov is crazy, and population pretty much manipulated in years of propaganda, but you can't keep buying from them and put more limitations at the same time. Choose one.

ASML is constraint anyway. They are booked for years. The west will buy everything they can because now there is a supply constraint that needs to be alleviate due to Accelerators.

As for China invading Taiwan, it is almost impossible because China wants to own TSMC, however invading will be catastrophic for the company which will disrupt all supply chain and plunge China in a severe recession, if not a depression, by destroying most of its exports. It would cut the country from the west and will kill the ambition of Xi of becoming the first economy of the world.

Not only this, but invading an island like Taiwan is almost impossible with Australia, South Korea, the USA and Japan around. The real reason an invasion is unlikely is because an indirect attack on Taiwan is a direct attack to the occidental economy.

 

[wiyosaya]

The minute China wanted to rejoin the world and the minute that Nixon opened trade relations, this was inevitable, IMO.

Despite the disagreements with western political views, China is not stupid. They know what it takes to compete in the "modern world" and are determined to succeed.

IMO, the modern financial system creates inequity where ever any one or any entity has the ability to "take it all." I don't, however, have an answer or any alternatives. However, I'd have to say that the adage "Money is the root of all evil" is relevant no matter who or what has that money.

 

[Beerfloat]

You speak for all Dutch now? If the Netherlands "took these boycotts seriously", they'd implement them themselves, rather than be unwillingly forced into them by US action.

I don't speak for anyone, certainly not the Dutch. Of course they're just following the US on export controls, and following through, just like Japan is. Countries that rely on trade need to be realistic. I can just imagine your typical bloviating and scoffing if some tiny European country were to actually go and unilaterally dictate trade policy to the likes of the US and China.

 

[redgarl]

The minute China wanted to rejoin the world and the minute that Nixon opened trade relations, this was inevitable, IMO.

Despite the disagreements with western political views, China is not stupid. They know what it takes to compete in the "modern world" and are determined to succeed.

IMO, the modern financial system creates inequity where ever any one or any entity has the ability to "take it all." I don't, however, have an answer or any alternatives. However, I'd have to say that the adage "Money is the root of all evil" is relevant no matter who or what has that money.

They are more than 10 years behind. It is an eternity in the semiconductor world.

Their fabs produce node that are not competitive for the semiconductor industry since China wants to mass produce.

In terms of OS or chips... they have nothing beside of a bunch of underperforming ARM chips made for mobile.

You just need to check the news of smugglers trying to import CPUs and GPUs to understand that China is nowhere near able to back up their claim. They are simply trying to act thought against the US decision to limit AI chips into China.

It is a political gesture, nothing else.

 

[redgarl]

I don't speak for anyone, certainly not the Dutch. Of course they're just following the US on export controls, and following through, just like Japan is. Countries that rely on trade need to be realistic. I can just imagine your typical bloviating and scoffing if some tiny European country were to actually go and unilaterally dictate trade policy to the likes of the US and China.

You are right on that. It is just a matter of time when the tension drops. It will change when a new President is going to be elected.

 

[kira setsu]

With how funny life can be I wont be surprised if/when China has some technological breakthrough that shocks the world.

Blocking the easy path just so they have to learn by now taking the harder one would lead to something like that happening. probably won't but still, you never know.

 

[toooooot]

and keep investing in the industry in north america and EU.

A bit too late. It will take years to have something resembling a complete cycle which today includes China.
And about not purchasing other things from China, that is very correct. It should not just be technology, it must include hundreds of thousands goods.
It is time to part, the way China operates makes it very obvious, they will never share our values and the things that allowed our civilization become what it is today.

 

[Lounds]

I reckon it's because China would reverse engineer and just steal the tech.