After testing the GTX 1650 we pledged to track down a popular OEM PC that didn't have a 6-pin PCIe power connector. This lead us to the HP Elitedesk 800 G1, a computer that most who were in favor of the GTX 1650 recommended we test with. Here we go.
Discrete GPU on a Cheap OEM PC: Does it Make Sense?
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GreenNova343
Posts: 454 +336
Wow...gotta say I was thrown for a loop on this. Hadn't even considered that an OEM system might be so crippled that even going for a 75W, PCIe-slot-power-only GPU doesn't give a whole lot of performance improvement.
One question, though: out of the box, was the EliteDesk 800 G1 using the integrated graphics, or one of the "dedicated" GPUs HP lists on their website (https://support.hp.com/us-en/document/c03808397) as an optional add-on? If so, it would be interesting to see how replacing those GPUs with even the RX 560, let alone a GTX 1050 TI or 1650, would improve their performance.
One question, though: out of the box, was the EliteDesk 800 G1 using the integrated graphics, or one of the "dedicated" GPUs HP lists on their website (https://support.hp.com/us-en/document/c03808397) as an optional add-on? If so, it would be interesting to see how replacing those GPUs with even the RX 560, let alone a GTX 1050 TI or 1650, would improve their performance.
I enjoyed the article! I see oem towers at work, refurbished or just old, that stutter and are so slow, that just need driver updates to run smooth. Somehow a five year old network driver can really slow it down. I also got a $5 adhesive heat sink to put on my Dell SFF VRM, along with another fan, and it runs a lot better (then I upgraded to a 7700K, and it really runs better).
I enjoyed this article as well. As someone on a seemingly forever tight budget, I like to see articles about bang for buck and for seeing how far old or unusual hardware can take us. I've also nearly bought systems with proprietary power supplies like this and always wondered how they could possibly run with such unusual constraints and... it looks like they actually just don't particularly well. Good to know.
grvalderrama
Posts: 314 +182
"proprietary power supply" = pieceofcrap power supply
I did this with my son's Acer Veriton SFF with an i3 550. It had a 240 watt psu and could only run an amd r7 240 that took like 40 watts. I'm paraphrasing. I can't remember the numbers exactly so excuse any mistakes. Anyway I upgraded my gpu to a 2080 ti and and had an extra gtx 1070 from my previous sli setup and a spare psu. We bought a $25 case and used his SSD and ram. The swap was pretty straight forward aside from some mobo heat sink issues getting in the way of the 1070. It worked great and definitely improved his gaming but the CPU does bottleneck performance and cpu intensive games don't see a substantial boost. Unless you have spare parts available it's better to just save and slot that 1070 or 1650 into a 1700x and new mobo you can get now for $200 together.
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Wow I have this exact scenario right now. My son is on a Dell i53450 with a really old discreet gpu getting about 30 fps on fortnite. I told him we could build something amd based for about 300 but the other day a friend of mine messaged .e about his hp envy 750-247c with a i7 6700, 24 gigs of RAM and a GTX 745. I suspected a motherboard issue and offered to buy it for 150 thinking I could find a MB for about 65 bucks and turn this into something that could be upgraded considering the ram and processor... Turns out it has a POS PSU with no 6 or 8 pin at 300W. That surprised me and I had low expectations... So now I'm looking at a new MB (a cheap Asrock 250) and maybe a PSU, or just let it get by for now till he gets a new video card himself. I tossed the 745 into his old i5 and it was considerably better than what he had. I took the 2 TB HDD out of it for my rig and threw a 500 g HDD in, it came with a 128g SSD for OS. Hope it works out in the end...
elementalSG
Posts: 270 +481
Great article! Moral of the story: build your own computer like I have for the past 20 years (and probably most of us here reading Techspot already do) since OEMs cut corners all over the place
ShagnWagn
Posts: 1,297 +1,085
I have known OEM computers were mostly trash, but I didn't know it was this bad. So many people have no idea other than "it gets me by". And these OEM companies take advantage of this on their wallets. The custom build companies should compare their builds against hardware-equivalent OEM computers, as in like-for-like hardware CPU and memory. I suspect it would be a boost to sales depending on how well they get the word out.
Absolutely. Like you I always knew but damn, the testing really shows how bad it is
pcnthuziast
Posts: 1,515 +1,341
Worked at a repair shop and we sold computers. We saw this ALL THE TIME. Customer comes in with a best buy price list showing amazing specs on a OEM computer demanding we match it.
We tell them to go fly a kite.
All those OEM systems comes with gimped PSU's and disgustingly cheap motherboards, they had to save the money somewhere or it wouldn't be that cheap in the first place!
We tell them to go fly a kite.
All those OEM systems comes with gimped PSU's and disgustingly cheap motherboards, they had to save the money somewhere or it wouldn't be that cheap in the first place!
Ben Myers
Posts: 323 +124
HP, Lenovo and Dell all make these crippled proprietary systems, often for use in businesses and enterprises where the predictable usage is mundane email, documents, spreadsheets, PDFs, etc., none of which tax a computer very much. I have very little use for repurposing these systems, even for use by the mythical little old lady who only does email on weekends. The flip side is that the systems bought at Walmart, Best Buy and other big box stores are crippled in different ways, like a Celeron CPU instead of a decent I-series processor.
The overwhelming plus of this article is to show these name brand systems for what they are. Plain awful for their cheapness and proprietary hardware. Like many laptops these days, they are not intended to be expanded, tricked out or repurposed. Caveat emptor, whether it's gaming inexpensively or regular everyday business activity.
The overwhelming plus of this article is to show these name brand systems for what they are. Plain awful for their cheapness and proprietary hardware. Like many laptops these days, they are not intended to be expanded, tricked out or repurposed. Caveat emptor, whether it's gaming inexpensively or regular everyday business activity.
wiyosaya
Posts: 9,760 +9,644
For me, I think one context where something like this makes sense is for a HTPC. Once I get a display for my HTPC that is 4K or higher, I plan on dropping in one of the newer graphics cards. For now, the A10 series APU that I have has been working great. If, by some chance, the A10 seems limited in that context, then I will do a new, low-cost build at that time.
However, I don't game on it, and that particular PC is only used as a HTPC.
However, I don't game on it, and that particular PC is only used as a HTPC.
Thanks for this! I just was testing an HP EliteDesk 800 G1 against a Windows XP-era Pentium 4 HT 3.0 GHz, and the CPU test in 3DMark 05 came out with the original P4 chip at 13-15 FPS, and the i5-4570S in my 800 G1 at 1 FPS!
I'm guessing this explains it entirely - I'll have to run XTU on the HP and see if I'm throttling the same way!
I'm guessing this explains it entirely - I'll have to run XTU on the HP and see if I'm throttling the same way!
Not all OEM computers are trash and not all home built PCs are good. This article strayed way away from the title. They should have compared a built in video to what ever they decided to put in the system. They say pay $500.00 for all new system vs paying $50.00. Then they say go buy used, thats like saying go get one free if you know a person that is tossing away a computer with a decent video card in it. May as well tell them to buy a used gaming PC.
hahahanoobs
Posts: 5,219 +3,074
Laptop form factors do something similar also with stock CPU's and GPU's causing poor thermals and neutered clocks.
ShagnWagn
Posts: 1,297 +1,085
I agree not all are trash. That is why I said "mostly" trash. For what I've noticed, you have to spend a lot of money to get one that isn't as proprietary as cheaper ones. Typically you can't just go to the electronic store and swap in any part you want to replace. I stopped paying attention to OEM altogether, so my experience may be a bit dated. Has the landscape changed significantly?
I am currently running a Dell optiplex 9020 with an i7 4990 that I got from work and was used to run CPU and memory heavy simulations on. It came with a proprietary psu as well, but after spending a few dollars on a 24 pin adapter and a bit more on a psu I could throw in my gtx670 and it runs smooth as. Fitting the gtx670 however meant that the usb3 in the front panel can't be connected, since the connectors are covered by the gpu.
One weird thing is thought the behaviour of the power on button. After the pc has been unplugged I have to unplug and replug the psu to motherboard connector before the power button works again.
One weird thing is thought the behaviour of the power on button. After the pc has been unplugged I have to unplug and replug the psu to motherboard connector before the power button works again.
Cycloid Torus
Posts: 4,892 +1,711
Maybe. I love the Xeon Dell Precision t3500 which I picked up from eBay for about $50. Updated BIOS, added more RAM ($20 ish), installed SSD( $50ish) and finally replaced low frequency quad with a 3.4 Ghz 6-core/12-thread ($50 ish). I caught an early GTX 1050 TI for $125 and am totally satisfied.
However, I'm looking for machine for spouse and found a nice looking Optiplex, only to learn that the motherboard for this model (DT) cripples the PCIe3 to 50 watts. Aaaargh.
I was well open to the idea that a Sandy Bridge or later quad core i5 OEM tower could be a good match to a 1050Ti or 1650 but this article puts that thought to rest. If I'm handed one for free, I'll run Cinebench on it with XTU open to see if the PSU and VRMs can handle the all core turbo load, but I'm not expecting them to.
Anyway it's way more fun to configure something at PCPP and build it from scratch, especially something shoestring like a 2200G, cheap B450, 500W PSU and add some RAM, SSD and HDDs I have laying around. Add an RX570 in 6 months. Add an R5 3600 in 12 months.
Much more rewarding.
Anyway it's way more fun to configure something at PCPP and build it from scratch, especially something shoestring like a 2200G, cheap B450, 500W PSU and add some RAM, SSD and HDDs I have laying around. Add an RX570 in 6 months. Add an R5 3600 in 12 months.
Much more rewarding.
QuantumPhysics
Posts: 6,306 +7,258
In a world of Ray Tracing, I can't see ever even considering buying any card beneath the RTX 2060.
And I damn sure wouldn't be using anything running DDR3.
I do have an HP ENVY with a Core i7 4790, 32GB of DDR3 and a GTX 745.
I personally don't see the logic of spending the money to but a GTX 1650 for a computer I'm probably never going to get real use out of again.
And I damn sure wouldn't be using anything running DDR3.
I do have an HP ENVY with a Core i7 4790, 32GB of DDR3 and a GTX 745.
I personally don't see the logic of spending the money to but a GTX 1650 for a computer I'm probably never going to get real use out of again.
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