France is formulating a $100 per month subsidized EV lease program

nodfor

Posts: 322   +578
electricity is actually 0.17€ /kwh ... from my totally normal contract ... it's more than 0.40/45 in germany , so no it's not that expensive , and it was nearly 0.13€ 3 years ago, so yea , it went up, maybe coz we're giving away a lot of electricity to our eastern neighbour who went full retard, but it's still not that hard on us
I am talking about wholesale electricity prices, you are talking about your bill.
The cost is there, it might not show in your electricity bill but it will on your tax bill
 

scavengerspc

Posts: 2,845   +3,115
TechSpot Elite
You don't make any sense.
Are electricity prices up tenfold? Yes they are
Does this make it the worst possible time to push for EV adoption?
Yes it does.
Why expand the convo outside this? You think it is winning you the argument?
it doesn't
And since you mentioned the "pandemic", most govs in the EU did push up really hard the Pfizer and Moderna shots, both which are US companies...
And now after the eastern front opened up, they are mass ordering guess what? US-made weapons
Starting to see a pattern? I am pretty sure you are even though you won't admit it.
And since we are on a tech site, they are also giving now subsidies to american companies to build chip plants in the EU. Great idea, give subsidies for new factories of US companies when you don't even know if you will be able to power up the ones you have.
My last post where I bother with you because you remind me of an old saying.
"You can lead a man to facts, but you can't make him think".

The facts show that in France prices only started going up when they did in the rest of the world, the summer of 21 as we were coming off the pandemic.

I'm not denying the numbers. In fact, at its worst it was actually much more than 10x, but it was very, very brief. And in fact have dropped nearly 50% just in the last month. A couple of months of data is not worthy of setting new policy.
 
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nodfor

Posts: 322   +578
My last post where I bother with you because you remind me of an old saying.
"You can lead a man to facts, but you can't make him think".

The facts show that in France prices only started going up when they did in the rest of the world, the summer of 21 as we were coming off the pandemic.

I'm not denying the numbers. In fact, at its worst it was actually much more than 10x, but it was very, very brief. And in fact have dropped nearly 50% just in the last month. A couple of months of data is not worthy of setting new policy.

What is the best time to give subsidies to EV? But of course the time you have no idea if they will be enough power to operate your factories! /s
 

m4a4

Posts: 3,105   +4,150
TechSpot Elite
No, I got it, it's just that the point is mostly under his hat.
Here is an activity for you. Find how much Cali. electricity goes to EVs compared to other areas.


No, my sister does, and she gets to see first hand how well everything goes there, even after all the whining and the poor, hurt widdle CONServatives feelings.
Like I said earlier, you should understand that every time you people point your fingers at them, they just laugh because they know where you are, and really want you to know that what they do is none of your damn business.
So, you are arguing to defend Cali's ridiculous gov't decision (because of some personal stake in it). Way too hard, I might add.

Guess what? You can admit fault in this decision too, instead of deflecting next time. You look ridiculous trying to avoid (losing) the argument.

Simply put: If Cali has to ask their people to not use electricity during peak times (like they've been doing over the past years), they should not be pushing so hard for more grid heavy policies 😂

Anyways, don't care to go off topic much more. Just don't pretend public policies are above criticism because you have a personal stake in them...
 
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Endymio

Posts: 1,838   +1,909
2035 is a long time to upgrade the electrical grid
But it's not 2035. California is having electricity shortages and grid failures right now.. Today. California has already banned entirely the purchase of gasoline-powered vehicles by the state itself. Today. And by the year 2026, it will require 35% of all vehicles sold to private buyers to be EVs. That's little more than 3 years from now.
 

Endymio

Posts: 1,838   +1,909
the amount of power needed to fully charge my EV wouldn't run my central air for an hour and a half.
Please tell me this was a joke. A Tesla Model 3 battery holds 80.5 kw-hr. Even the best Level 2 charger is only about 90% efficient, meaning a full charge will require some 89 kw-hr. A large 5-ton AC unit requires 3.75 Kw per running hour and, according to EPA estimates, should run no more than 16 hours/day even on the hottest days, meaning it uses 60 kw-hr per day, or only about 2/3 of what a full charge on that Tesla requires.

Sources:


 

toooooot

Posts: 1,746   +909
Honestly, the first thing that comes to my mind is people who will eventually start buying affordable second or third hand electric vehicles. Then they will drive them. Then they will learn their cars need battery change. Then they will realize it is crazily expensive compared to such simple gasoline vehicles like Toyota and Honda.
I mean, I don't doubt that a lot of people aren't interested in tech and how their vehicles work and wear out.
I just wanna stress that you can drive an old gasoline car for a long time not requiring expensive repairs. But the batteries, once it is time to replace them, there is not much left to do beside spending a significant amount on a new one.
 

scavengerspc

Posts: 2,845   +3,115
TechSpot Elite
But it's not 2035. California is having electricity shortages and grid failures right now
This is only valid if we all remain in an unnatural and severe heatwave for the next 13 years.
Please tell me this was a joke. A Tesla Model 3 battery holds 80.5 kw-hr.
Interesting worthless numbers. My EV has a 33 kWh battery and my central air units use, 13000 kWh at peak. So actually a little over 2 hours. Do you really believe everything is the same?
Simply put: If Cali has to ask their people to not use electricity during peak times (like they've been doing over the past years), they should not be pushing so hard for more grid heavy policies
I'm sorry you don't understand policies to improve matters, but then that is your problem, isn't it. Like I said, you only have a point if they remain in a severe heatwave for the next 13 years.
Honestly, the first thing that comes to my mind is people who will eventually start buying affordable second or third hand electric vehicles. Then they will drive them. Then they will learn their cars need battery change. Then they will realize it is crazily expensive compared to such simple gasoline vehicles like Toyota and Honda.
I mean, I don't doubt that a lot of people aren't interested in tech and how their vehicles work and wear out.
I just wanna stress that you can drive an old gasoline car for a long time not requiring expensive repairs. But the batteries, once it is time to replace them, there is not much left to do beside spending a significant amount on a new one.
WOW! That was one of the most counterfactual statements I have heard in a long time. How can you say so many things without a single accurate thought?
Please tell me this was a joke.
Actually, I'm just trying to get people like you to say reducing EV charging and cutting AC usage during peak are somehow 2 different and unrelated issues as often as possible.
 
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scavengerspc

Posts: 2,845   +3,115
TechSpot Elite
This will be my last post here for a while gentlemen. I'm heading to the mountains for most of the holiday week. I wanted to mention that because I didn't want you to think I had just started ignoring any further comments.

337824-Minion-Labor-Day-Weekend.jpg
 
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Endymio

Posts: 1,838   +1,909
This is only valid if we all remain in an unnatural and severe heatwave for the next 13 years.
Heat waves hit somewhere in California every year. The state has implemented rolling electricity outages every year for the last 3 years. Try again.

My EV has a 33 kWh battery....
Even if true it's irrelevant. The average EV battery is nearly triple that. And you conveniently forgot the 10-20% charging losses. The fact remains that the average EV owner will use as much electricity charging their vehicle as they do running their AC. Your attempts to portray EV consumption as a trivial problem fall flat. California's EV mandates will irrefutably exacerbate the state's energy woes.
 

Kam7r

Posts: 136   +284
this don't concern France , but I told you why everybody's freaking out even in France... we have enough power production to be independant in electricity, period, BUT since we're part of the EU , our governement try to make the problem of the EU , ours too... so they're making everybody's freaks out , I'm sure the germans and many others in the EU should be concerned, but from our pov ... meh... at least not about electricity... it's dishonnest trying to not blame the stupideness of some in the EU and making their problem like it's our own, I would have accepted it if this was clearly said and not a pathetic solution to hide the consequences of the decisions of some under the carpet.
 
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wiyosaya

Posts: 8,284   +7,662
I just wanna stress that you can drive an old gasoline car for a long time not requiring expensive repairs. But the batteries, once it is time to replace them, there is not much left to do beside spending a significant amount on a new one.
And that will likely be a long time. Some 2nd gen and later Prius have gone well over 200K miles. I've got 110K on mine and the body is already rusting out. In fact, if you live in a northern state where salt is used on winter roads, it is far more likely your car's body will rust out before the battery dies.


That "when the battery goes, its going to be expensive to replace it" is something that most normal car buyers will never see, and, I expect, a BS FUD argument fostered by the fossil fuel industry. Personally, if I do have my 06' Prius (NiMH battery) long enough that the traction battery needs to be replaced, it is not a difficult thing to do at a fraction of the cost of having a dealer replace it -
 

Endymio

Posts: 1,838   +1,909
Personally, if I do have my 06' Prius (NiMH battery) long enough that the traction battery needs to be replaced, it is not a difficult thing to do at a fraction of the cost of having a dealer replace it
Your aged Prius holds a 30 kg battery. A Tesla LR battery weighs 1200 pounds. It also runs at 400 volts, meaning that one small error means the end of your shade-tree mechanic days.
 

wiyosaya

Posts: 8,284   +7,662
Your aged Prius holds a 30 kg battery. A Tesla LR battery weighs 1200 pounds.
So? There's a weight difference?
It also runs at 400 volts, meaning that one small error means the end of your shade-tree mechanic days.
:rolleyes: No more than for you or any shade-tree mechanic working on the electrical wiring of their house. And by the way, it isn't voltage that kills, its current.
 

scavengerspc

Posts: 2,845   +3,115
TechSpot Elite
EDITED:

Heat waves hit somewhere in California every year. The state has implemented rolling electricity outages every year for the last 3 years. Try again.
Except this year, the worst year of all, the year we were talking about, until...you. They were ready and avoided problems. Their worst summer, and no blackouts. Maybe Texas should take note.
If only Greta Thunberg hadn't dropped out of school.
Grandmas and, in this case, teenage girls still scare you?
It's important to help you here. First, you actually quoted Ryan Maue.
He is not exactly a source for intelligent conversation.
Also, it is him, Ryan Maue that somehow stuck in the green energy garbage.
If you read the article HE quoted, the mirror makes no mention of green energy and in fact provides proper Q's and A's.
Braindead in Oz.

I would say brain-dead is what the world decided to pursue as transportation fuel for the last 100+ years. We are fixing that mistake finally. More states and countries are doing it. We are witnessing the end of petroleum fuel, and it's glorious.
War is hell, and they never had even a minor problem through the years until the war broke out. Their reserves are in fact huge in Europe overall. They will make it through until the end of Russia's assault, and we are helping them.
I just wanna stress that you can drive an old gasoline car for a long time not requiring expensive repairs
Even if we get lucky enough for that to be true, expensive maintenance will take over to suck on your wallet.
Even if true it's irrelevant
And here ladies and gents, Endy will now presume to tell me he may doubt that I know what battery is in my Focus EV.
 
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Endymio

Posts: 1,838   +1,909
So? There's a weight difference?
Are you intentionally being obtuse? A 60 lb battery can easily be handled by one person. A 1200 lb battery cannot.

And by the way, it isn't voltage that kills, its current.
This oft-repeated trite little aphorism is of course utterly inaccurate. Electricity kills in one of two manners: either enough current to fibrillate the heart with enough voltage to pass through the body No one will ever be killed by a 12V car battery, regardless of its ability to generate enormous currents. There's a reason heart defibrillators (and electric chairs) operate at about 2500 volts.

Oh, and the second manner in which electricity kills you is by outright burning ... and in this case, it's the total wattage that kills ... regardless of how much or little current is actually flowing.

Except this year, the worst year of all, the year we were talking about, until...you. They were ready and avoided problems.
But it wasn't the "worst year of all", of course. It had the highest average -- but blackouts are driven by sustained daily high temperatures, not three-month averages. Which is why California had blackouts in 2001 and most recently as 2020.

As for why California avoided them this year, it's because they now import much more power from Nevada, Arizona, Utah, and even Canada: power they refuse to generate themselves. California now imports more than 25% of its total electricity; the largest amount by far of any state.

Their worst summer, and no blackouts. Maybe Texas should take note.
They should, yes. Texas' ERCOT generates nearly double the amount of electricity from wind and solar that California does. That's why in fact they had the 2021 blackout.
 
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scavengerspc

Posts: 2,845   +3,115
TechSpot Elite
They should, yes. Texas' ERCOT generates nearly double the amount of electricity from wind and solar that California does. That's why in fact they had the 2021 blackout.
No.

Well sourced, and those sources are listed.

But it wasn't the "worst year of all", of course.
And no blackouts.

As for why California avoided them this year, it's because they now import much more power from Nevada, Arizona, Utah, and even Canada: power they refuse to generate themselves. California now imports more than 25% of its total electricity; the largest amount by far of any state.
EXACTLY! Except they have been doing that since 2018 I think. But as I said this time "they were ready!"

0 for 3.
 
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