France starts moving government systems from Windows to Linux

[LimyG]

Schools are for instructing, not promoting ideologies. With a 3% market share, pushing Linux would be doing students a disservice.

In any case, if you're referring to US K-12 schools, by and large they don't spend money on MS licenses, but instead the (free) Chromebooks and Google Apps, with about a 90% market share.

Finally, I'll note that both Chromebooks and Windows Education Edition contain instructor and institution management features that Linux AFAIK lacks, and is a substantially larger addition than simply compiling a custom distro.

Good point about Chromebooks and Google apps for US K-12 schools.

 

[Loadedaxe]

It's not a dramatic breakup. It's more like a slow motion train wreck or that bullet time effect they used in the Matrix. Picture the US slowly falling on its ***. The next three years are going to be wild. Let's see how much more damage they can do to international relations and the global economy. Maybe the Stable Genius tries to attack Cuba next, then leaves NATO, and takes Greenland. What a trifecta that would be!

That’s a whole lot of dramatic fan fiction wrapped in buzzwords.

Disagreements between the U.S. and Europe happen all the time...that’s not new, and it’s not some slow motion collapse. Trade, defense, and intelligence cooperation are still very much intact because it’s in everyone’s interest.

And the “invading Cuba, taking Greenland” stuff? That’s not analysis, that’s just internet doomposting. If anything, it says more about how online discourse works than what’s actually happening in the real world.

Reality is a lot less cinematic....and a lot more boring than that.

A friend in Moret-Sur-Loing, France sent me a copy from the French site Next INpact a week or 2 ago where they said many French companies are going to sever ties with anything related to the US in the following months.
In keeping with my lighter touch methods here, I will let everyone take a guess as to why, but this probably isn't the end.

That sounds like a classic “my friend said” mixed with a loose translation and a lot of interpretation.

Even if a French outlet like Next INpact talked about reducing reliance on U.S. tech, that’s not the same as “many companies are going to sever ties with anything related to the US.” That would be economically suicidal for most businesses.

French and European companies are deeply tied into U.S. software, cloud services, finance, and markets. What is happening is some diversification.....looking at local or opensource alternatives where it makes sense. That’s a far cry from cutting everything off in a few months.

So yeah, this sounds less like inside info and more like someone turning a nuanced article into a dramatic headline.

 

[yRaz]

Schools are for instructing, not promoting ideologies. With a 3% market share, pushing Linux would be doing students a disservice.

In any case, if you're referring to US K-12 schools, by and large they don't spend money on MS licenses, but instead the (free) Chromebooks and Google Apps, with about a 90% market share.

Finally, I'll note that both Chromebooks and Windows Education Edition contain instructor and institution management features that Linux AFAIK lacks, and is a substantially larger addition than simply compiling a custom distro.

Oh, yeah, idealogies. Didn't know that Linux was an ideology. Let's pay mega corporations to collect and sell our kids data instead. I'd much rather help trillion dollar companies profit off my children's information and indoctrinate them into an ecosystem than ever actually have them LEARN a useful skill because of some silly IDEOLOGY. I didn't know learning valuable skills and saving money was an ideology.

 

[Endymio]

Oh, yeah, idealogies. Didn't know that Linux was an ideology

You haven't been paying attention then. Personally, two of my three home systems are Linux ... but it has far more than its ordinary share of religious zealots.

Let's pay mega corporations to collect and sell our kids data instead.

Out here in the real world, schools aren't paying Google for the free ChromeOS nor to use free Google Apps. Nor does Google sell student data from Chromebooks to anyone, despite what some tinfoil-hat sites allege.

I'd much rather help trillion dollar companies profit off my children's information and indoctrinate them into an ecosystem than ever actually have them LEARN a useful skill because of some silly IDEOLOGY.

I'm unsure why you're having such trouble understanding that, outside of an extremely few and limited magnet programs, t K-12 schools don't teach operating systems. These laptops are designed to disseminate teacher- and school-specified curriculum only.

I didn't know learning valuable skills and saving money was an ideology.

See above. You're out of touch with reality.

 

[scavengerspc]

That sounds like a classic “my friend said” mixed with a loose translation and a lot of interpretation.

Then take it up with them.
If that is yet another thing that gave you a boo boo, just use that internet thingy,
They aren't hiding the comment just to confuse you.

However, I did say "but this probably isn't the end" so why don't we see if others join or if France add other US products to their avoid list in the future. K?

 

[Burty117]

Schools are for instructing, not promoting ideologies.

I don't know what Ideology using Linux is pushing, please enlighten me.

With a 3% market share, pushing Linux would be doing students a disservice.

Market share has nothing to do with what kids learn at school, at the moment they learn to use Microsoft or Google services, in-case you aren't aware of Google or Microsoft, they are giant international mega corporations based out of the USA, locking in children to learning Windows is doing them a disservice.

In any case, if you're referring to US K-12 schools

I am refering to schools throughout Europe and the UK, not US schools.

by and large they don't spend money on MS licenses, but instead the (free) Chromebooks and Google Apps, with about a 90% market share.

Have you ever stopped and wondered why Microsoft and Google give their services away for free? Or have extremely cheap education pricing?

The reason these corporations have gotten to where they are in schools is because the world of open source software wasn't capable 20+ years ago, since that's no longer the case, why do you think Microsoft and Google through so much free time to education?

Finally, I'll note that both Chromebooks and Windows Education Edition contain instructor and institution management features that Linux AFAIK lacks, and is a substantially larger addition than simply compiling a custom distro.

I'm fully aware of that, it's a part of my job, hence why I said:

(it doesn't have to be an existing flavour, it can be a custom one designed specifically for schools, the money that currently goes to Microsoft, can go to maintaining that instead)

If European and UK governments stop giving Microsoft and Google any money and instead, invest it into open source alternatives that they could even create themselves if required, it's still a much better option than continuing to let an American mega corporations to teach the youth.

 

[scavengerspc]

The reason these corporations have gotten to where they are in schools is because the world of open source software wasn't capable 20+ years ago, since that's no longer the case, why do you think Microsoft and Google through so much free time to education?

I would say the reason is because people tend to stay with what they know.
Free tools now, kids learn the software, and through convenience stay with what they already know, and there you have it, a lifetime paying customer.

 

[Underdog]

A bit of a brainwash, really when you think about it.
When a certain populist president comes along and literally insults long-time allies and tries to drag the entire world economy down those allies become ex-allies and start making their own decisions instead of letting a bully call the shots.

 

[Endymio]

I don't know what Ideology using Linux is pushing, please enlighten me.

Glad to. Linux and its principal developers and evangelists ares deeply intertwined with the anti-corporate, neo-socialistic GNU/FSF/OSI paradigm. From the tone of your remarks, you likely support those same ideologies.

(FSF: Free Software Foundation)
(OSI: Open Source Initiative)

Market share has nothing to do with what kids learn at school

So why are you claiming Linux "needs more market share" in schools so that students can learn it?

...in-case you aren't aware of Google or Microsoft, they are giant international mega corporations

I understand you hate "mega-corporations". However, your objection was that schools were paying large sums to them, when the vast majority of the software they provide to students is free.

...locking in children to learning Windows is doing them a disservice.

Except that isn't happening. Students aren't taught OSes at the K-12 level, and even if they were, they certainly aren't "locked into" one.

Have you ever stopped and wondered why Microsoft and Google give their services away for free? ...
If European and UK governments stop giving Microsoft and Google any money

You might want to stop and read your own posts. Can you find the contradiction in them?

 

[ragreeen2646]

OK,
Who is going to provide the OS ans application support?
Who is going to develop and support open source apps?
I worked for 27+ years in IT support. Mostly in the UNIX/LINUX space.
I use Windows at home because I can easily get the apps I want at decent prices.

 

[Loadedaxe]

Then take it up with them.
If that is yet another thing that gave you a boo boo, just use that internet thingy,
They aren't hiding the comment just to confuse you.

However, I did say "but this probably isn't the end" so why don't we see if others join or if France add other US products to their avoid list in the future. K?

Take it up with them” isn’t really an argument though.....it’s just straw man dodging the actual point.

No one’s saying the article doesn’t exist. The issue is how you’re interpreting it. “Reducing reliance” or “looking at alternatives” isn’t the same thing as “severing ties with anything related to the US,” especially on a short timeline. Those are two very different claims.

And sure, we can wait and see...nothing wrong with that. But jumping straight to “this is the beginning of everyone cutting off the US” is a pretty big leap based on one article and a friend’s summary.

If more actually happens, then there’ll be something real to talk about. Right now it just reads like speculation dressed up as certainty.

 

[Burty117]

I would say the reason is because people tend to stay with what they know.
Free tools now, kids learn the software, and through convenience stay with what they already know, and there you have it, a lifetime paying customer.

Yeah, I know, I was trying to get the other guy to come to the same conclusion so they understood what the problem was.

Glad to. Linux and its principal developers and evangelists ares deeply intertwined with the anti-corporate, neo-socialistic GNU/FSF/OSI paradigm. From the tone of your remarks, you likely support those same ideologies.

What is wrong with you Americans man? So extreme all the time, I don't care who farts what, one solution is obviously the better long term investment.

So why are you claiming Linux "needs more market share" in schools so that students can learn it?

I never said "needs" I said it would be a potential outcome of changing schools to use linux rather than Windows, I can quote myself actually:

developers would have to take linux seriously and become a mainstream platform that they support from the get go

Where am I claiming Linux "needs more market share"??

I understand you hate "mega-corporations". However, your objection was that schools were paying large sums to them, when the vast majority of the software they provide to students is free.

I don't hate mega corporations at all, I work for them, they pay my salary, but they should not be in schools, the price is MUCH higher than just simply what they provide to the school at the time, again, I'll ask you again, why do you think Microsoft and Google give this stuff away for practically free?

Except that isn't happening. Students aren't taught OSes at the K-12 level, and even if they were, they certainly aren't "locked into" one.

I'm not saying they "teach OSes", as per above, why do you think Google and Microsoft go to great lengths to give their services away to schools? Because they're kind loving mega corporations that "just want to give back to the community"?

You might want to stop and read your own posts. Can you find the contradiction in them?

I shall end with the post I quoted from the start:

I would say the reason is because people tend to stay with what they know.
Free tools now, kids learn the software, and through convenience stay with what they already know, and there you have it, a lifetime paying customer.

This guy gets it, he sees the problem, I'm just giving a potential option out of this mess and what the potential outcomes would be.

Here's another question for you, do you honestly think it's a good idea that countries outside of America, should be reliant on American Mega Corporations teaching their kids "How a PC is used"?.

I do need to highlight again, I'm not talking about America or the American Education system, I'm talking about European and UK schools.

 

[Endymio]

I can quote myself actually:

developers would have to take linux seriously and become a mainstream platform that they support from the get go

Where am I claiming Linux "needs more market share"??

You've repeatedly stated schools should drop other OSes to switch to Linux. Do you honestly not understand that equates to Linux "gaining market share"?

And you're even more confused about the purpose of schools. It's not to make "developers take Linux seriously". It's not to promote the success of Linux. It's to educate children, period.

I don't hate mega corporations [but] they should not be in schools, the price is MUCH higher than just simply what they provide to the school at the time, again, I'll ask you again, why do you think Microsoft and Google give this stuff away for practically free?

When the software is free, what "price" do you believe the schools are paying?

Here's another question for you, do you honestly think it's a good idea that countries outside of America, should be reliant on American Mega Corporations teaching their kids "How a PC is used"?.

I doubt you can express a rational basis as to why you believe this is a problem. Be specific.

You're also refusing to acknowledge that Linux lacks the educator-specific features that ChromeOS and Windows EE possess. But if you're willing to spend a few thousand hours of your own time -- unpaid, of course -- to add those features, I'm sure at least a few schools will be interested in switching over.