Leaked spec sheet reveals cableless GPU power connectors targeting over 600W

[Daniel Sims]

Why it matters: After a recent safety scare concerning RTX 4090 power cables, some hardware companies plan to test methods to circumvent them entirely. Asus offered an early look at a new GPU connection standard in May, and a recently leaked patent sheet provides a closer look at the technology's design goals.

Trusted leaker Momono has posted a spec sheet for installing graphics cards without power cables. The design involves a new port on the motherboard that works similarly to the primary PCIe x16 slot. The papers detail a dock called the HPCE connector, which sits next to and is directly aligned with the PCIe x16 port. Compatible GPUs would include a new corresponding GC-HPWR gold finger next to the PCIe x16 gold finger.

When Asus demonstrated a GeForce RTX 4070 utilizing the new system at Computex and the Bilibili World 2023 exhibition, observers reported that it could deliver up to 600W. That wattage is enough for the flagship 4090 at stock settings, but overclocking and future high-end GPUs could exceed 600W. However, designers appear to have revised that spec to deliver no less than 600W to meet the demands of high-end graphics cards, with no upper limit stated.

Another requirement is that the dock doesn't take up too much space, which is one reason the chosen design is based on one used for server components and known for compactness. Using mature technology also ensures reliability, lowering the chances of a repeat of Nvidia's 12VHPWR controversy.

HPCE connector pic.twitter.com/3RBTUhcQsg

– 188å· (@momomo_us) August 28, 2023

Last year, users began reporting cases of frying and melting connectors for the RTX 4090's 12VHPWR cables. The issue eventually led to a class-action lawsuit against Nvidia. While the company claimed it detected only a few dozen incidents, which it blamed on user error, other analyses alleged structural problems. The PCI-SIG later introduced an updated power connector design, which Nvidia quietly implemented. The HPCE port presents an entirely new solution that isn't vulnerable to bending.

Asus's cableless RTX 4070 should be available later this year or early 2024. However, it is unclear whether it will include an option for traditional connectors, which would provide customers with more flexibility as they switch between motherboards that may or may not feature HPCE ports.

Permalink to story.

https://www.techspot.com/news/99957-leaked-spec-sheet-reveals-cableless-gpu-power-connectors.html

 

[godrilla]

Would this require the same risky cable just be connected to the motherboard?
Also some are raising concerns about the used aftermarket resell value of these new graphics cards.

 

[yRaz]

Ahh, lets make a new standard that no one asked for to replace the other new standard that also no one asked for.

Am I the only one that enjoys cable management and finding creative solutions that are also aesthetically pleasing? I don't understand where the idea of cables=ugly came from. Something people are also forgetting is that this is going to make motherboards more expensive.

It feels like we have a solution in search of a problem....

 

[Jrfeimst2]

Would this require the same risky cable just be connected to the motherboard?
Also some are raising concerns about the used aftermarket resell value of these new graphics cards.

Yes, which kinda makes this pointless. It’s basically an adapter built into the motherboard. I guess if you have a small case? Or if you don’t want to see the GPU cable? But if it’s not connected well to the motherboard it will not only fry the motherboard but the GPU probably.

 

[ScottSoapbox]

This is an excellent idea. Just up the main power cable to the mobo and eliminate half of the cables coming out of the power supply

 

[yRaz]

This is an excellent idea. Just up the main power cable to the mobo and eliminate half of the cables coming out of the power supply

What'll probably happen is that they will just put PCI-e 8 pin connectors on the motherboard so we don't get even more fragmentation of standards. I'm not even really against the idea of nVidia's 12pin connector, it's just that now we have different powersupplies to worry about. the 12pin isn't a huge deal because adapters are a thing, but if you get a new motherboard and graphics card suddenly the 24pin motherboard connector might not fit. Maybe they could do a 24+12pin connector?

I just don't like the idea of fragmented standards. This is going to fragment motherboards, graphics cards and potentially powersupplies depending on how it's implemented.

 

[hahahanoobs]

This might end up being a better hammer, however I won't be an early adopter.

 

[takaozo]

This looks to me like Dell/Apple way of doing motherboards for last 20 years. Each new chassis with a new layout and new plugs. No more IBM/PC compatible ATX standard design. And for what to enable KW add in cards?

 

[Nobina]

GPU power cables were not a problem until RTX 4000 series arrived.

Can't wait to see gold plated, RGB, "premium" power cables that will cost $100. You wouldn't want to risk your hardware burning up, would you?

 

[neeyik]

GPU power cables were not a problem until RTX 4000 series arrived.

It's really on the RTX 4090 that's been the problem. Well, with connection melting at least. The rest of the line-up isn't drawing anywhere near enough current for an iffy connection to be an issue.

Would this require the same risky cable just be connected to the motherboard?

The board that Asus demonstrated has the 12VHPWR connector on the rear of the board (middle, far-left), along with all of the rest of the power and communication blocks. However, there are also three PCIe 8-pin blocks next to it, so if this is the final design that Asus plans on going with, it would appear to give you the option of using either system.

 

[takaozo]

However, there are also three PCIe 8-pin blocks next to it, so if this is the final design that Asus plans on going with, it would appear to give you the option of using either system.

Or you can use both 12pin + 3x8pin for a 600W+450W totaling 1050W and also the 75W from slot.

looks like GPU's can use 1125W on this board, only if proprietary HPCE can handle this.
From my prior experience similar connectors can do 2KW or more.
Add a 350W Intel Cpu in the mix and we would have to build separate computer rooms in no time.

 

[neeyik]

Or you can use both 12pin + 3x8pin for a 600W+450W totaling 1050W and also the 75W from slot.

Here's how the connector is supposed to deal with all of that:

 

[takaozo]

Here's how the connector is supposed to deal with all of that:

I know the design, same old server PSU but in a more compact form.

Here is the 2KW Dell PSU from a 1HU rack chassis

And the motherboard connectors on the right

 

[neeyik]

@takaozo It looks to me that this first revision probably won't allow the combined use of the 12VHPWR and three 8-pin PCIe connectors. The way the document is written suggests that more HPCE pins would be required for >600W.

 

[kira setsu]

So instead of just replacing a janky cable or power supply you'll replace the whole mobo?

nah, eff that, this is just a money grab.

 

[wiyosaya]

I can hear the Nvidia marketing shtick now! Want to run an RTX 4090? All you need is an entirely new system build. IMO, Middle finger to that!

Just do the f'n cables right, guys and stop trying to push your on us so we can provide money for you to continue to churn out useless crap.

 

[takaozo]

@takaozo It looks to me that this first revision probably won't allow the combined use of the 12VHPWR and three 8-pin PCIe connectors. The way the document is written suggests that more HPCE pins would be required for >600W.

I don't think there is a switch/mosfet/triac/relay on that board, just connectors soldered to PCB.
Only maybe some fuses.

There is nothing stopping users to connect both. now only the copper layer in the PCB has to handle this.

later edit:
ah you mean the pins here:

 

[wiyosaya]

It's really on the RTX 4090 that's been the problem. Well, with connection melting at least. The rest of the line-up isn't drawing anywhere near enough current for an iffy connection to be an issue.

The board that Asus demonstrated has the 12VHPWR connector on the rear of the board (middle, far-left), along with all of the rest of the power and communication blocks. However, there are also three PCIe 8-pin blocks next to it, so if this is the final design that Asus plans on going with, it would appear to give you the option of using either system.

I can't say I am jazzed about this. So instead of doing the connector on the card and the cable to the card right, they stick it on the MB, add 4, 8-pin connectors, likely PCI-e power connectors, to the motherboard, and before we know it, everyone needs a new MB. Pardon my skepticism, but this is to be expected from someone like Asus who is, after all, a MB manufacturer and that is how they make part of their profits - by selling MBs which everyone will need a new MB in order to adopt this "solution".

Why they did not put these 4, 8-pin PCI-e connectors on the graphics cards is beyond me. Seems to me that would have been a more reasonable solution; one that people like me who have "juicy" power supplies could instantly adopt without having to build a completely new system.

IMO, they really want to tank the enthusiast PC builder's market with this one.

And on top of this, look at the footprint of this MB. Really, anyone going in this direction needs to build a completely new system from the ground-up. PS, case, MB. WTF?

EDIT: I revisited this and saw that the fourth connector on the MB was an 12VHPWR connector and realized the error of my ways. Really, though, why did they not add another 2, 8-pin pci-e power connectors? Yes, it would have meant more real estate on GPUs, but my guess is it would have been more reliable.

My comments about the new motherboard/GPU card design still stand.

 

[neeyik]

ah you mean the pins here:

Yep -- I should imagine the new connector's power pins indeed are just hooked up to all the +12V lines in the other connectors, given that the HCPE connector only seems to have two sense pins, and they're matched directly to those in the 12VHPWR connector.

But since it only has 12 power pins at the moment, it looks like it just has the same rating as the 12VHPWR (I.e. 600W). If this is the case, then a 4090-version of Asus's new thingy would be kinder to the 12VHPWR cable plugged in the back of the board, if the 8-pin PCIe ones were filled in too.

My bad with the wording of my previous statement.

 

[wiyosaya]

There is nothing stopping users to connect both. now only the copper layer in the PCB has to handle this.

That's not necessarily an easy feat. If the extra layers are internal to the board, they will not dissipate heat as well as external layers which might require that the "new" layers/traces be made of 2oz copper instead of 1oz copper, and they will need to be wide enough to handle the current flowing through them.

I could see the extra copper being on their own, individual layers in the board with little else, if anything, being on those layers aside from the power for this solution.

I don't know how they would implement this, but it would add extra cost to manufacturing motherboards - another thing that manufacturers would charge (pun intended) extra for so they would be able to cover their costs and make a profit off of it.

As you can tell, I am not enthusiastic about this. To me, it seems over-complicated and complex, without good reason, for what is a simple problem that already has a solution.

I wonder whether Asus has done extensive testing on this. It seems, to me, that this might just be a not-so-well-thought-out "solution" and they might just run into more problems than they solve. Honestly, I could see motherboards burning up if they do not have all their ducks in a row.

 

[Destined]

Ahh, lets make a new standard that no one asked for to replace the other new standard that also no one asked for.

Am I the only one that enjoys cable management and finding creative solutions that are also aesthetically pleasing? I don't understand where the idea of cables=ugly came from. Something people are also forgetting is that this is going to make motherboards more expensive.

It feels like we have a solution in search of a problem....

hilarious and so true
they must be bored at R&D to com'up with this kinda ideas...

 

[godrilla]

FYI
Not sure if anyone was holding off on purchasing an atx 3.0 pcie 5.0 psu but MSI just dropped the price of their 1000 watt psu to $149.99
MSI MPG A1000G PCIE 5 & ATX 3.0 Gaming Power Supply - Full Modular - 80 Plus Gold Certified 1000W - 100% Japanese 105°C Capacitors - Compact Size - ATX PSU
Limited-time deal: MSI MPG A1000G PCIE 5 & ATX 3.0 Gaming Power Supply - Full Modular - 80 Plus Gold Certified 1000W - 100% Japanese 105°C Capacitors - Compact Size - ATX PSU https://a.co/d/2erM4zv
I personally went with the Seasonic Vertex GX-1000 - 1000W ATX 3.0 PSU for my 4090 suprim liquid but that one is $249.99.

 

[wiyosaya]

FYI
Not sure if anyone was holding off on purchasing an atx 3.0 pcie 5.0 psu but MSI just dropped the price of their 1000 watt psu to $149.99
MSI MPG A1000G PCIE 5 & ATX 3.0 Gaming Power Supply - Full Modular - 80 Plus Gold Certified 1000W - 100% Japanese 105°C Capacitors - Compact Size - ATX PSU
Limited-time deal: MSI MPG A1000G PCIE 5 & ATX 3.0 Gaming Power Supply - Full Modular - 80 Plus Gold Certified 1000W - 100% Japanese 105°C Capacitors - Compact Size - ATX PSU https://a.co/d/2erM4zv
I personally went with the Seasonic Vertex GX-1000 - 1000W ATX 3.0 PSU for my 4090 suprim liquid but that one is $249.99.

Frankly, I would trust Seasonic more than other PS manufacturers. For that price, you've gotten a reliable PS, IMO.

 

[godrilla]

Frankly, I would trust Seasonic more than other PS manufacturers. For that price, you've gotten a reliable PS, IMO.

I was cutting it too close for comfort with the 750 watt sfx platinum by corsair, although that one is beastly psu as well, the cable management was lacking. When I went with the 7800X3D it gave me an opportunity to finally close my itx case and run the whole thing silently with a show peace like cable management lol. I'm not proud of it by I had given the task to Microcenter for $120 for cpu upgrade and power supply upgrade with cable management ( dueto my extremely busy schedule. The tech did an amazing job. He said you definitely need atx 3.0 for improvement in cable management. So they recommend the Seasonic one. I recalled many praising this brand, although it was my first run with them. Thank you!

 

[wiyosaya]

I was cutting it too close for comfort with the 750 watt sfx platinum by corsair, although that one is beastly psu as well, the cable management was lacking. When I went with the 7800X3D it gave me an opportunity to finally close my itx case and run the whole thing silently with a show peace like cable management lol. I'm not proud of it by I had given the task to Microcenter for $120 for cpu upgrade and power supply upgrade with cable management ( dueto my extremely busy schedule. The tech did an amazing job. He said you definitely need atx 3.0 for improvement in cable management. So they recommend the Seasonic one. I recalled many praising this brand, although it was my first run with them. Thank you!

I'll just say this - I'm not at ATX 3.0 at this point, however, I used to use Antec PSs until a colleague of mine, years ago, recommended Seasonic. I have never turned back. Cable management, by virtue of the modularity of their supplies, is unmatched, and I have never had a Seasonic fail. I cannot say the same about Antec.

That said, I just started doing a bunch of rebuilds (literally everything new except the PSs), and the Seasonics I have are more than up to the task.