Microsoft boss teases 'next generation of Windows' is coming 'very soon'

wiyosaya

Posts: 6,137   +4,409
LOL. if you think it'll ever take off n the world use it, you are living in a fantasy land.

Also Linux has been around awhile. But until they ever figure out one and only version, it'll never been anything other than DIY desktop.
That will never happen with an open source OS.
 

wiyosaya

Posts: 6,137   +4,409
Could kinda do with the update on mine that keeps rolling back fixing first. For quite a while now it has been trying to install it. There is no useful error message displayed, I assume it has reported back each time it has failed. This is on a Dell XPS15 not a rare or unusual configuration. I am not looking forward to the "next big thing".
I've got something like that going on with one of my PCs. Update happens, reboot to blue screen without any usable log data, then reverts to the version before the update while telling me its doing me a favor. And it's not anything out of the ordinary - A socket 2011 Ivy Bridge Xeon, 32GB ram, 980Ti, SSD, Sound Blaster Z. Of course, the MS Help was "Reinstall the OS" :rolleyes:
 

NeoMorpheus

Posts: 671   +1,253
What does that have to do with the Linux kernel being "tech from the 70s."?

I see so many logical fallacies on this website that I fell like many people here know so little about tech that they should just switch to templeOS
How ironic that you pretend to know so much yet you didnt really provided any real info as to why what I said is wrong. Or worse, me wasting time feeding a "professional" retired high school debater captain.

That said, what I meant with my original comment, the main design philosophy of Linux, which is the same as Unix, its simply not that good compared to something like Zircon in Fuschia.

Talking about it, moving away from the Linux kernel helps with following:

1- drivers and thus OS updates. Linux refuses to ensure backward compatibility, and Qualcomm refuses to work on older chipsets. Android is getting retrofitted a kind-of-HAL (hardware Abstraction Layer) between Linux and drivers, but Zircon has been built from the ground up with that in mind.

2- lotsa other stuff: security, modularity, speed, modernity...

And in the end, Linux is really just the kernel, is is GNU\Linux, and as it was copied/inspired by Unix, which was a server OS, with emphasis on multiuser, not security.

Anyways, feel free to continue with the insults and juvenile attempt at humilliating someone online because..
 

wiyosaya

Posts: 6,137   +4,409
That said, what I meant with my original comment, the main design philosophy of Linux, which is the same as Unix, its simply not that good compared to something like Zircon in Fuschia.
Your opinion may or may not prove itself out in time. The way I see it is the layered approach is another vector that hackers will figure out how to exploit at some point. It could also be so that google can inject more spyware functions at any point in the layers.

I am sure google had their reasons for taking this approach with, IMO, the most likely reason being that felt that it would give them more opportunity to monetize and/or maximize the monetization of the data they collect. Whether it proves to be better in practice remains to be seen.

From google's past behavior, one thing is certain - at least as I see it, that is google lines it pockets, at least in part, by selling data that it has collected.
 

NeoMorpheus

Posts: 671   +1,253
Your opinion may or may not prove itself out in time. The way I see it is the layered approach is another vector that hackers will figure out how to exploit at some point. It could also be so that google can inject more spyware functions at any point in the layers.

I am sure google had their reasons for taking this approach with, IMO, the most likely reason being that felt that it would give them more opportunity to monetize and/or maximize the monetization of the data they collect. Whether it proves to be better in practice remains to be seen.

From google's past behavior, one thing is certain - at least as I see it, that is google lines it pockets, at least in part, by selling data that it has collected.
I get that Google has that reputation and I would say is well deserved, but You should look as to how bad Windows 10 in this regard.

Also, as the Linux people say, feel free to audit the source code:

 

DZillaXx

Posts: 282   +407
This would be an amazing gift to Apple.

Microsoft is already struggling to keep Windows together with tape and baling wire.

Windows runs on obsolete, inefficient and hot-running X86 chips that deliver increasingly poor performance versus Apple’s modern M-series SOCs that are faster, more efficient and lower cost.

And Windows itself is a bloated, inefficient OS with a poor user experience.

About the only argument left for Windows is cost — “sure, it sucks but it is cheap!”

If they go to a subscription model, people will end up paying Microsoft $100 or so a year, turning those $800 Windows laptops into $1,300 laptops when you factor in the software.

That costs more than a MacBook Air and the same as a MacBook Pro — which gives you vastly superior industrial design, a much more stable and usable OS, and of course Apple’s cutting-edge M-series SOC architecture.

Along with an OS that doesn’t require regular payments to remain up-to-date.

The Mac is the desktop counterpart to the mobile OS that most serious smartphone users deploy — iOS. Which will further drive migration away from Windows.

In Google-land, things would also improve quite a bit from a Windows money-grab. Chromebooks integrate well with Google services and Android, and many people will be giving serious consideration to Chrome OS as their next laptop environment.

We could be seeing Windows’ final days.

Actually from a tech perspective, the NT kernel is still just as modern as any device running Unix or Linux. MS still heavily uses NT and it runs the majority of Azure. But there are plenty of things MS has built around and on top of their NT foundation that is outdated and overly bloated. The NTFS file system for example is in need of replacing, the registry needs to be phased out, The Windows Shell needs some serious improvements epically in fluid design.

I wouldn't just go start spouting that ARM is leagues better than x86 in efficiency, while that may currently be true for devices at operated sub 15watt. AMD has proven there is a lot of room for improvements in x86 in that area, it is largely Intel who is far behind. In heavily workloads AMD is leagues ahead of Intel in efficiency when it comes to workstation level performance. And Apple would have a hard time competing with AMD even with their node advantages.

x86 is a outdated platform that wastes die space, All modern x86 chips are RISC that converts CISC to RISC. They are damn good at it and do have a lot of instructions that make the chips very good at what they do. Even ARM has a fair amount of extra instructions and are no bare bones RISC chips that people think they are. It took a long time for ARM to even catch up to what old MIPS chips could do. Moving Away from x86 is going to be hard and ARM is hardly the golden solution. RISC-V would probably be the better path forward if someone like intel or amd would get onboard.

There is a lot of things UI wise windows does better than Mac OS. I've been a power user of both for years. Stability of both have always been top notch. I've had plenty of glitches and bugs on both platforms, Mac OS is no saint.

Where Windows excels is for business. Even in a small business getting their users on Azure AD is not only cost effective but makes protecting company information easier then ever. Sadly MS's backend admin consoles are a jumbled mess and I see why less experienced Admins end up on Google's G Suite. Managing a chromebook is way easier, even if the cost is around the same and you are forcing users to use a worse office platform. With MS you can get 365 & Azure AD apart of the Business Premium, with sharepoint and each user getting their own one drive pool. Pretty much all user data and company data can easily be in the cloud backed up, and policy management and device management being done in the cloud as well. It ends up being a great deal for business users, and Apple has nothing on this. Google is the only other option with their chromebooks.
 
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DZillaXx

Posts: 282   +407
How ironic that you pretend to know so much yet you didnt really provided any real info as to why what I said is wrong. Or worse, me wasting time feeding a "professional" retired high school debater captain.

That said, what I meant with my original comment, the main design philosophy of Linux, which is the same as Unix, its simply not that good compared to something like Zircon in Fuschia.

Talking about it, moving away from the Linux kernel helps with following:

1- drivers and thus OS updates. Linux refuses to ensure backward compatibility, and Qualcomm refuses to work on older chipsets. Android is getting retrofitted a kind-of-HAL (hardware Abstraction Layer) between Linux and drivers, but Zircon has been built from the ground up with that in mind.

2- lotsa other stuff: security, modularity, speed, modernity...

And in the end, Linux is really just the kernel, is is GNU\Linux, and as it was copied/inspired by Unix, which was a server OS, with emphasis on multiuser, not security.

Anyways, feel free to continue with the insults and juvenile attempt at humilliating someone online because..
Linux Distros make for great Server OS. But it is a poor platform for normal users. Once you get past the shell linux really shows how bad it is as a platform, and really the GUI is nothing more than a secondary feature.

Linux GNU has plenty of old Fluff, X11 is a very outdated system more meant for running apps on a remote system. Linux was always more of a server OS. Wayland has been in the makings for years and still well behind. Nice thing about linux is features come and go based on Distro. It just isn't something you'd want in a business environment when there are better options. But Clearly Linux is pretty flexible, just look at Chromebooks. These are not Linux GNU devices, they are propose built devices.

Even Mac OS while built on Unix has so much Mac OS only crap that you just can't just move platforms and make it work.


I do agree that Linux in the long run would free MS of the continued development of NT and focus on other areas. But in no way would Windows be Linux GNU.
 
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gcarter

Posts: 105   +40
/me cradles his Macbook Air M1 and shudders at the thought of going back to Windoze as his daily driver!
 

tygrus

Posts: 22   +8
The usual reinvent the wheel changes to the sub-systems & API's. They break more than they fix then spend 7 years finishing, fixing or reverting before abandoning for the next new thing.
 

yukka

Posts: 956   +137
There might not be what you call revolutionary applications on windows but there are a ton of heavy duty applications that do run on windows, do get regular updates, aren’t about to jump to cloud based versions and can run on windows workstations that are a ton easier to manage than macs are. And the workstations are easily upgradeable and cost a lot less. Can’t see windows losing that business market share any time soon. This coming from a sysadmin who manages macs/iPads etc with JAMF and windows computers with endpoint manager. And I also occasionally mess about with Linux for the odd service here and there.
 

CommonSenseTech

Posts: 103   +94
Exactly. But don't cry about it, you choose to use it.
You can choose not to maintain a device. Don't connect to internet then. But if you do then there are and will be rules that you agreed to. Doesn't matter if you like them or not. If they bother you or anyone so much talk with the manufacturer. Or simply use a different device.
Or you could just buy a machine that doesn’t require pointless “maintenance” to prevent serious problems.
 

CommonSenseTech

Posts: 103   +94
Lol... show me some evidence to back that up... as for no one developing for Windows... hmmmm... what’s one of the (if not the) most profitable computer industry? Video Games... and last I heard, Windows was a pretty important thing to develop them for... (remember, Xbox basically runs Windows too)...
Windows is still hugely relevant, don’t pretend otherwise...
Gaming rigs are not a major driver of PC volumes. Far more Playstations, XBoxes and Switches are sold than gaming rigs.

And the big games are sold on all those platforms as well as Windows. Far from exclusive to Windows.
 

Darth Shiv

Posts: 2,190   +770
Depends on how you define “desktop.” Mac OS runs on laptops, and Apple laptops are the world’s best for average users. iOS, Mac OS, and iPad OS are all scaled to meet different form factors while sharing a modern hardware architecture (Apple A and M series SOCs) and cloud infrastructure. Macs with M-series chips can run iPad and iPhone apps.

If you count all the devices running in the Apple ecosystem — Mac, iPad and iPhone — Apple is far more important than Microsoft these days.

I suspect “new Windows” is an attempt to milk folks trapped with legacy applications, and that Microsoft knows Windows has no real future. This move will allow them to monetize Windows for as long as possible, and the people who switch to Apple or Google OSes will still be paying Microsoft for cloud services (including Office 365), so MS wins no matter what.

Meanwhile the world can finally move on from X86, the Windows registry, and all the legacy Windows goop that has stood in the way of modern computing.
OSX and iOS are distinct platforms. You are completely ignoring this fact.

OSX is the Apple desktop platform and that is what has failed (if you think the goal is to be dominant market share). Clear now?

And let me be clear. As an engineer, I would design a closed eco like Apple has done. From an engineering perspective, it is the cleaner way to do things. x86/x64 Windows is a monster but a highly successful monster. Those are the facts.

iOS is the portable operating system and a subset of the desktop eco capabilities and in some respects like UI, it is its own beast. It can be shoehorned into a lot of traditional roles for desktop but it is it's own segment for very good reason.
 

Darth Shiv

Posts: 2,190   +770
Lol... show me some evidence to back that up... as for no one developing for Windows... hmmmm... what’s one of the (if not the) most profitable computer industry? Video Games... and last I heard, Windows was a pretty important thing to develop them for... (remember, Xbox basically runs Windows too)...
Windows is still hugely relevant, don’t pretend otherwise...
Yep he's utterly delusional...
 

CommonSenseTech

Posts: 103   +94
OSX and iOS are distinct platforms. You are completely ignoring this fact.

OSX is the Apple desktop platform and that is what has failed (if you think the goal is to be dominant market share). Clear now?

And let me be clear. As an engineer, I would design a closed eco like Apple has done. From an engineering perspective, it is the cleaner way to do things. x86/x64 Windows is a monster but a highly successful monster. Those are the facts.

iOS is the portable operating system and a subset of the desktop eco capabilities and in some respects like UI, it is its own beast. It can be shoehorned into a lot of traditional roles for desktop but it is it's own segment for very good reason.
That’s an arbitrary distinction. My Mac OS laptop runs iOS apps. My iOS device has an API that allows Mac apps to be easily ported — the iWork suite for iOS is an example of this.

So is, ironically enough, Microsoft Office for iOS.

Legacy definitions of tech infrastructure are an impediment to understanding the trajectory of the marketplace and the future of the category.

And even if you do confine yourself to a taxonomy of “desktop computing” that dates to the days of the Amiga, Microsoft isn’t doing so well there either. Mac OS share has over tripled in the last six years and hit an all-time high of 17% this past quarter — it’s clear that even in a world of obsolete market definitions, Windows is in decline.
 
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JamesBlond

Posts: 101   +60
Its not a tease... everyone knows Windows 10 can be better, but new is always shi-t from MS, better to fix Win10 and make it free or $5, because everybody is sick of the crap MS release
 

JamesBlond

Posts: 101   +60
No it doesn’t. It uses some tech derived from Windows, but it does not run Windows. People don’t buy xboxes to get Windows — which it doesn’t run — they buy them to play games on a specialized device.
The Xbox One, in fact, already runs Windows 10. However, the version of Windows 10 on the Xbox One is a highly customized version of Windows 10 specific to the Xbox One console
 

Squid Surprise

Posts: 4,100   +3,262
No it doesn’t. It uses some tech derived from Windows, but it does not run Windows. People don’t buy xboxes to get Windows — which it doesn’t run — they buy them to play games on a specialized device.
Yes, it does.... just a customized one...

Anyways... my point is that DEVELOPERS need to be able to develop for WINDOWS if they want to make games for Xbox - or the PC....

So Windows is a fairly important OS... even if you discount the hundreds of millions of other devices running it...

I'm still awaiting an example of a "machine that doesn’t require pointless “maintenance” to prevent serious problems".... no, a toaster doesn't count....

Now maybe stop trolling?