Microsoft boss teases 'next generation of Windows' is coming 'very soon'

wiyosaya

Posts: 6,137   +4,409
I get that Google has that reputation and I would say is well deserved, but You should look as to how bad Windows 10 in this regard.

Also, as the Linux people say, feel free to audit the source code:

If you search my post history, you will not find a lack of complaints of mine about how much of a piece of crap Windohs 10 is especially in regards to their crap updates. I have had several updates that would have turned my PCs into heaps of :poop: that would have taken days to repair had I not adopted a practice of an image backup before applying an update. And then, I complained profusely on the Windohs feedback forums and they finally fixed some of the complaints I had.

Speaking as a software engineer by profession, google is applying a general software design pattern that might not play out as well as it sounds on paper. If you are writing something that depends on another module's functionality, what happens if that module does not exist?? You end up writing your own anyway, or pay someone to write it for you, which would essentially mean that their new OS has not brought any improvements for you as a developer.

From my perspective, the trouble with behemoths like M$, gagme, and crapple is that they are all full of themselves. IMO, they think that they are doing a wonderful job, and that no one else could possibly do better, and that everyone loves them (take, for instance, the new iPhone "Candy Man" Commercial - good god - Talk about arrogance and trying to appeal to the baser human desires to sell a cell phone. 🤣 ). Often, they end up writing stuff that is such a departure from an established standard that it is difficult to use, but they see it as having improved on the standard. 🤣 In M$ documentation in days past, I literally ran across the statement, "At Microsoft, we always like to think that we can improve on a standard" as if they had no clue as to the real intent of a "standard."

As I said, whether gagme's new OS is better for developers will take time to determine.

And, I am not even going to get into the IoT aspect of things (I.e., Nest), which because of security holes from various companies, could easily be argued is not going too well.

Oh well. With IoT better late than never to actually implement security into it. :rolleyes:
 

wiyosaya

Posts: 6,137   +4,409
There might not be what you call revolutionary applications on windows but there are a ton of heavy duty applications that do run on windows, do get regular updates, aren’t about to jump to cloud based versions and can run on windows workstations that are a ton easier to manage than macs are. And the workstations are easily upgradeable and cost a lot less. Can’t see windows losing that business market share any time soon. This coming from a sysadmin who manages macs/iPads etc with JAMF and windows computers with endpoint manager. And I also occasionally mess about with Linux for the odd service here and there.
Cloud providers are actually making it much easier to run cloud versions of software. You get an OS of your choice, and can run most any app, even heavy duty applications like Finite Element Analysis and CAD systems in a virtualized environment from a browser.

As a software engineer working on a Finite Element Analysis program for such an environment (amazon app stream, Microsoft Azure), there was absolutely nothing for me to do to make my FEA program (a Windows application) run in that kind of cloud environment.

I have seen other heavy duty applications adopting this approach, and it would not surprise me if others also adopt such an approach.

My point is that yes, heavy duty windows applications are jumping to the cloud, however, it is not much of a jump, IMO.
 

Avro Arrow

Posts: 1,505   +1,732
TechSpot Elite
More bloatware, more bugs, more crashes.
Aw come on! Just because it's what they always do doesn't mean.... oh wait. :laughing:
Linux or Unix-like kernel would be nice: yes it's a big undertaking but quite a bit of Azure already runs on Linux and with so many of the moving pieces being pushed to web apps and cloud stuff anyway, they could do it.

Highly unlikely but at least for devs and Windows Server they should consider it.
It would be nice but it won't happen. One of the most important aspects of the PC landscape has always been backwards-compatibility. If they used a Linux kernel, then they'd have to code an emulator for older software. I don't think that it would be a big deal to make an emulator (hell, the PS/2 emulator makes your x86 CPU emulate an IBM Power CPU), but it would eat CPU resources like there's no tomorrow. Then people would have to buy all new software for it and other than giant corporations, who has that kind of money to just throw around these days?
"economic opportunity"?

that sounds ominous, probably means you cant just buy a license outright, some subscription BS, tiers, oh their gonna announce some f***ery alright.
Even if they do, we still have Windows 10 and I might have a hacked version of Windows 7 Ultimate x64 somewhere. I also might have working Ryzen drivers for said theoretical Windows 7....đź‘ż
"one of the most significant updates" Uh Oh
Yeah, you might want to test it on an older PC first. You know, just to be safe.... :laughing:
"one of the most significant updates" Uh Oh
Yeah, that word "significant" is rather frightening.
As good as Linux kernel is, its still tech from the 70's and I would personally prefer something newer.
Well, to be honest, Windows still uses the MS-DOS kernel and that's from 1981 so it wouldn't be much different. This is why hard drives have to start with drive C, because A and B are still reserved for floppy drives only. :laughing:
They are going to make us pay for updates.
I would be ecstatic if that were true because it would mean that they wouldn't be able to force the updates upon us anymore.
Windows 10 runs pretty damn well and doesn't crash as much or have nearly as many issues as 7 or XP did. I work in IT and have been in desktop support for a decade before I moved off to being a sysadmin. So this is speaking from a lot of experience.
XP had issues? I mean, if you had the home version of XP it was awful but I remember XP Pro being rock solid starting with SP2. I still lament the fact that XP x64 was abandoned.
If they go to a subscription model, people will end up paying Microsoft $100 or so a year, turning those $800 Windows laptops into $1,300 laptops when you factor in the software.
Which orifice did you pull those numbers out of? Windows 10 was free for most and cost me about $37CAD For Windows 10 Pro with MS-Office. Even the most expensive retail version only has a one-time cost of $245CAD. If Windows tried what you've managed to dream up, it would FAIL because no user or business would adopt it.
We could be seeing Windows’ final days.
Meanwhile... back on Earth... Apple has a "very threatening" 15% share of the computer market and is still so overpriced that enthusiasts use its name as a punchline for both computers and phones. Apple is used mostly by people who aren't tech-savvy but need a computer for professional or educational purposes and are willing to get fleeced because they aren't interested in knowing more about tech. It's like people who drive BMWs, except for a tiny minority, they're as ignorant about cars as MacBook owners are about computers.
I'm looking forward to this (crazy as that sounds).
You're right. It sounds pretty damn crazy! :laughing:
Too bad that isn't true... honestly, if you don't get vaccinated, you shouldn't be allowed into any public places...
Ain't that the truth!!! (y) (Y)(y) (Y)(y) (Y)(y) (Y)(y) (Y)(y) (Y)(y) (Y)(y) (Y)(y) (Y)(y) (Y)(y) (Y)
Anti-vaxxers share the bottom rung of the IQ ladder with flat-earthers.
 
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Dimitriid

Posts: 729   +1,322
Aw come on! Just because it's what they always do doesn't mean.... oh wait. :laughing:

It would be nice but it won't happen. One of the most important aspects of the PC landscape has always been backwards-compatibility. If they used a Linux kernel, then they'd have to code an emulator for older software. I don't think that it would be a big deal to make an emulator (hell, the PS/2 emulator makes your x86 CPU emulate an IBM Power CPU), but it would eat CPU resources like there's no tomorrow. Then people would have to buy all new software for it and other than giant corporations, who has that kind of money to just throw around these days?
I think they could maintain the "normal" Windows 10 but offer a Linux version that focuses on cloud products: ideally Microsoft wants most people to migrate to Azure anyway and it's because they're selling "Infrastructure/Software-as-a-Service" so basically, they're already trying to sell a big platform change anyway to as many people as they can.

So what you're absolutely correct as to why most enterprise customers wouldn't go for a Linux OS, that's only if they remain on premise. Which many will, but a Linux or Unix-like OS that is basically sold as "Azure Native" could work for them, as an added/bonus version of Windows.
 

DZillaXx

Posts: 282   +407
Well, to be honest, Windows still uses the MS-DOS kernel and that's from 1981 so it wouldn't be much different. This is why hard drives have to start with drive C, because A and B are still reserved for floppy drives only. :laughing:

Windows does not use MS-DOS in any way shape or form.

Windows runs on NT.

MS used to be one of the biggest distributors of Unix with their Xenix OS. When AT&T was forcibly broken up MS's ideas of using Xenix as their Multi user platform and upgrading DOS to be upwardly compatible with Xenix hit a dead end. Uncertain about the future licensing of Unix and IBM wanting to work with MS on a future platform, windows NT would soon later become the future of Microsoft.

In the early days Windows NT made Unix or Linux seem like yesterdays technology. But continued community improvement model has proven to be less costly and more effective in the long run.

But I will say that GNU Linux is a mess for anything GUI based. And Really the only Linux system that has done GUI correctly isn't even GNU, but Android.
 

Darth Shiv

Posts: 2,190   +770
That’s an arbitrary distinction. My Mac OS laptop runs iOS apps. My iOS device has an API that allows Mac apps to be easily ported — the iWork suite for iOS is an example of this.

So is, ironically enough, Microsoft Office for iOS.

Legacy definitions of tech infrastructure are an impediment to understanding the trajectory of the marketplace and the future of the category.

And even if you do confine yourself to a taxonomy of “desktop computing” that dates to the days of the Amiga, Microsoft isn’t doing so well there either. Mac OS share has over tripled in the last six years and hit an all-time high of 17% this past quarter — it’s clear that even in a world of obsolete market definitions, Windows is in decline.
Last I checked they aren't comparable on feature-set. They are not the same thing. Just keep trying to convince yourself they are equivalent. Desktop is still best in class for productivity. And I don't count iOS in that category. iOS has advantage on accessibility of interface as does Android. They are NOT the same as desktop.

You keep omitting key distinctions to try justify your point but we know IT here.
 

CommonSenseTech

Posts: 103   +94
Last I checked they aren't comparable on feature-set.
That’s also an obsolete 70s/80s era construct — that a product is a long bullet list of features.

Even Microsoft has moved away from that — recent versions of Office, for example, have far fewer “features” than earlier versions… making them far more useful
They are not the same thing. Just keep trying to convince yourself they are equivalent. Desktop is still best in class for productivity.
I can easily prove this to be false, especially in corporate settings. It’s difficult to be productive with the average locked-down, over-administrated corporate issued PC. I’m much more productive on an iPad Pro with a keyboard than on some locked-to-hell Windows box dominated by an IT guy with a god complex who doesn’t understand how to do my job and “explains” what software and hardware I need to do my job.

Just last year, my “expert IT manager” was trying to explain why all I needed for advanced statistical analysis was — plain vanilla Excel.

That desktop paradigm is what holds back innovation and its one reason creative destruction of large corporate enterprises is accelerating. In the month and a half that it takes for the average IT manager to “approve” my software request, my smaller competitor has already completed their analysis and is acting in the marketplace.
 

DaveBG

Posts: 560   +249
That's a your computer/user issue. I've never had that, ever.
Now I know it's possible for there to have issues if your computer don't check for updates or you don't manually check. Issues could arise but again that would be your computer or on you as you didn't do proper maintence on your pc.
Its not only on my computer. Many people have this bug. Its common for windows 10 to have these kinds of bugs...
 

texasrattler

Posts: 1,172   +555
Its not only on my computer. Many people have this bug. Its common for windows 10 to have these kinds of bugs...
Many ppl, no. Ppl with this or with most bugs are in the minority not the majority.
Can't be common if I don't see and no friends have got it.

This where people get all this stuff wrong. Not everyone gets or sees these bugs. Again, most don't ever get them.
I'd say it more common that people think everyone has these because they have them when it's actually the opposite.
 

DaveBG

Posts: 560   +249
Many ppl, no. Ppl with this or with most bugs are in the minority not the majority.
Can't be common if I don't see and no friends have got it.

This where people get all this stuff wrong. Not everyone gets or sees these bugs. Again, most don't ever get them.
I'd say it more common that people think everyone has these because they have them when it's actually the opposite.
is that why 10 is synonym with bugs?
articles like this can be found everywhere:
win 10 is basically fighting with vista for the N1 spot for most hated os ever.
 

texasrattler

Posts: 1,172   +555
is that why 10 is synonym with bugs?
articles like this can be found everywhere:
win 10 is basically fighting with vista for the N1 spot for most hated os ever.
And yet people also report in these very forums of having none of those issues. Again, a few people experiencing issues doesn't mean many and certainly doesn't mean all.

Win 10 being compared to Vista LOL
Amazing how ppl are so clueless and can only complain.
 

paul1122

Posts: 120   +103
This would be an amazing gift to Apple.

Microsoft is already struggling to keep Windows together with tape and baling wire.

Windows runs on obsolete, inefficient and hot-running X86 chips that deliver increasingly poor performance versus Apple’s modern M-series SOCs that are faster, more efficient and lower cost.

And Windows itself is a bloated, inefficient OS with a poor user experience.

About the only argument left for Windows is cost — “sure, it sucks but it is cheap!”

If they go to a subscription model, people will end up paying Microsoft $100 or so a year, turning those $800 Windows laptops into $1,300 laptops when you factor in the software.

That costs more than a MacBook Air and the same as a MacBook Pro — which gives you vastly superior industrial design, a much more stable and usable OS, and of course Apple’s cutting-edge M-series SOC architecture.

Along with an OS that doesn’t require regular payments to remain up-to-date.

The Mac is the desktop counterpart to the mobile OS that most serious smartphone users deploy — iOS. Which will further drive migration away from Windows.

In Google-land, things would also improve quite a bit from a Windows money-grab. Chromebooks integrate well with Google services and Android, and many people will be giving serious consideration to Chrome OS as their next laptop environment.

We could be seeing Windows’ final days.


And Apple is still a tiny blip in Desktop land.
 

Watzupken

Posts: 248   +231
It makes you nervous when they say that there is a "big change" happening. From what I observed with current big releases on a semi annual basis, the OS is becoming more bloated, and they should really focus on the streamlining the OS and squashing bugs, and not the looks. I have recently jumped back to MacOS after leaving it for almost 1.5 decade. The main driver being the show stopping bugs which I have been experiencing with the last few major release. In fact, it doesn't have to be a major release before I run into some bugs. The other driver is really the amazing battery life vs performance with the M1 chip.
 

Watzupken

Posts: 248   +231
And Apple is still a tiny blip in Desktop land.
In my opinion, it doesn't matter what is their market share for desktop OS. If you look at just the Android vs iOS as an example, Apple is making a lot more money from the OS despite the Android user base being 2.5 to 3x the size of the iOS user base. The same can be said about MacOS even though the market share is still in the single digit percentage.
 

texasrattler

Posts: 1,172   +555
In my opinion, it doesn't matter what is their market share for desktop OS. If you look at just the Android vs iOS as an example, Apple is making a lot more money from the OS despite the Android user base being 2.5 to 3x the size of the iOS user base. The same can be said about MacOS even though the market share is still in the single digit percentage.
Apple has no place but to go up. Cause everyone hates the Big Bad MS lol
If it wasn't for MS/Gates helping Jobs/Apple back in 2000, there wouldn't even be Apple today.

I have zero issue with MS, never really had. Most issues I've had were either my own or me not knowing what I was doing.
I don't have anything against Apple, I just have no interest in macOS or iOS. However, iPads are the best tablets hands down. They just load things better n quicker. Samsung has some good tablets but just aren't as good unless spending $700 or more. In that case Apple wins imo.
 

10thDmenxn

Posts: 85   +54
This can ONLY be a bad thing. Everything he talked about was improvements for them (M$), and pretentiously saying for dev's as well. BUT there was NOTHING in that talk that said it was better for the end user. NOTHING!!! Everything M$ does is geared towards M$, not the end users. They are looking to find any way possible to get on-going payments from everyone they can. I actually like Win 10, once you turn all the spying stuff off. But I have always hated that you have to do some serious hacking to take control of this OS. And I've never understood why these moronic companies feel the need to control all aspects of your OS. OS's should be customizable in every way shape and form. Allow the people to make it their own. But these big companies have no desire to allow people the freedom to improve their pos products. M$, Gaggle, CRapple and Samsung are just a few of the examples of giant conglomerates who do everything they can to stifle free expression and personalization of the products we buy. I really wish there were better alternatives...
 

10thDmenxn

Posts: 85   +54
Apple has no place but to go up. Cause everyone hates the Big Bad MS lol
If it wasn't for MS/Gates helping Jobs/Apple back in 2000, there wouldn't even be Apple today.

I have zero issue with MS, never really had. Most issues I've had were either my own or me not knowing what I was doing.
I don't have anything against Apple, I just have no interest in macOS or iOS. However, iPads are the best tablets hands down. They just load things better n quicker. Samsung has some good tablets but just aren't as good unless spending $700 or more. In that case Apple wins imo.
Ipad's are NOT the best tablets, and it's not even close. People are just lazy, and don't do their homework to learn the truth. Instead, they rely on advertising for their knowledge, completely oblivious that it's all lies. Ipad's aren't even full computers. They are limited substitutes for people who know, or who don't care to know how to "really" use a computer, or use one to it's fullest potential. Several of my friends and family members use ipads. And they can't do nearly the things I can do on my Surface Pro 7. And I'm no M$ fanboy. But truth is truth, and facts are facts no matter who they favor or discredit.
I have a bigger, brighter and more beautiful screen. A MUCH faster processor, more/faster memory and a full computers functionality to do whatever I want or need to accomplish. I dislike CRapple because they lie in ALL of their advertising, and their ***** sheep patrons follow obediently. I dislike M$ because they spy on us as much as Gaggle does, and refuse to give us any control or allow us to customize our OS. But function for function, project for project, the ipads are so limited that unless you are totally clueless about computers, they are almost worthless. But if all you want to do is text, chat and check email, sure the ipad is a wonderful device... Lol.
 
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