Microsoft now blocks Windows 7 and 8.1 updates on Kaby Lake, Ryzen systems
- Thread starter Scorpus
- Start date
foxrox
Posts: 50 +45
No, what is sour grapes is the flavor of the Kool-Aid Windows 10 yes-men are drinking.
I get better "optimal" performance from Windows 7 in more than 50% of the things I do. Windows 10 carries too much of a payload of filth to ever be viewed as "optimal" at anything relating to performance. There are a few things that Windows 10 does better, but not many. In most respects it is close to a level playing field and Windows 7 is superior because it's not burdened with all of the filth Windows 10 is designed around. I use both OSes every day and dual boot Windows 7/10 on all of my systems. If Windows 10 was truly superior I would not waste my time going through the motions of having a dual boot system.
Both OSes are tweaked extensively on my systems, and neither one can be described as a good product without modding. However, it takes many more hours to bend Windows 10 into submission and tweak it to the point that I am willing to tolerate it. The most objectionable aspect of Windows 10 are the liberties taken by Micro$loth to limit end user autonomy and removal of many OS customization options, and there is where the many hours of tweaking is required... to take back what they have stolen and add the things that are missing. Their interference is not appreciated and will not be tolerated. I will have Windows my way, whether they like it or not.
Linux will never be good enough to replace Windows, at least for me. I wish that were true, but the sad reality is Linux is too limited for me to make it my default OS. I'd love to, but there are too many things I can't do with it. The Mint UI looks and feels great, and it's very stable, but most of the software I like using most doesn't run on Linux.
Bottom line here is Kaby Lake works flawlessly on Windows 7. I have two systems with 7700K and both run like a Swiss Watch under Windows 7. Ryzen probably does (don't have one, so I can't say). I have been running with Windows Updates disabled for years. They don't matter to me and haven't for a very long time. I take the time to destroy the ability for Windows 10 to update itself. I have no use for Windows Store or the app filth, so things will be business as usual for me. I've got the drivers I need, so this is all a bunch of hype and sword rattling designed to manipulate more sheeple into moving to Windows 10. Screw 'em. I'll do whatever I want to with my computers.
Raiderman
Posts: 68 +59
Anyone who knowingly uses the newest malware infested OS, are techncally challenged to begin with, therefore their opinion becomes moot.
foxrox
Posts: 50 +45
I realize we can't fix stupid, but unqualified Kool-Aid drinker comments like this don't help Micro$loth or advance the cause for Windows 10 adoption.
Anyone that uses something just because it's new doesn't possess ordinary intelligence on a fundamental level. In fact, I would go as far as saying that demonstrates stupidity at a fundamental level. That pie in the sky "it's new so it must be better" approach to technology is why we have so much garbage in technology. I've been using it every day of the year since Windows 10 was first released to the Insider Program, and I can say with the utmost confidence that it is absolutely not a superior product.
Does it have a few nice features? Sure, it does. Does it do everything better than Windows 7, or stand on its own as some kind of amazing product that everyone should immediately adopt because it is "killer" or anything like that? Well, I think this sums it up nicely...
TL;DR - My Windows 10 Early Adopter and Daily User Advice: MEH
"Anyone who owns a car more than a few years old knows nothing about driving (even if they have 40 years driving experience vs the 18 year old with a brand new car who barely scraped through his driving test last week...) and anyone whose car is 1 day older than mine should go buy a horse"...
^ Great "analogy" there that's clearly convinced W7 users of W10 Forum Warrior's 'superior' intellect... These failed attempts at humiliation are looking as desperate as post-Gates Microsoft "Software As A Service" Google-wannabe-but-left-it-five-years-too-late floundering 'direction' in general.
Squid Surprise
Posts: 5,565 +5,204
Ahhh.... I have the cereal box law degree... yet you're the one who spouts nonsense...
He did say that it seemed like an anti-trust situation.... and I clearly explained why it isn't - anti-trust is only when your monopoly hinders ANOTHER COMPANY'S product... as I've said over and over, Windows 7 and 8 are ALSO owned by Microsoft - you can't have an anti-trust situation against yourself...
And it's Microsoft that is not supporting Ryzen (and Kaby Lake).... AMD is free to release as many drivers as they want.... that won't make Windows 7 update itself automatically on Ryzen, nor does it change anything else.... Go troll somewhere else please...
cliffordcooley
Posts: 13,141 +6,441
You can call it "not supporting" if you want to. I will refer to it as "sabotage".
Squid Surprise
Posts: 5,565 +5,204
lol... fair enough... it's kind of pre-emptive non-support
They realize it works fine now.... but why bother to go to the effort to continue to make it work several years down the line? By denying support now, they make it so that 5 years from now, no one can complain that it doesn't work any more...
Raiderman
Posts: 68 +59
Exactly! You are the law expert now? A monopoly is hindering another companies product...hmmm ...I guess forcing Intel and AMD to not support older OSes, which decreases sales, is not hindering another company's bottom line?
I could not care less about Windows update, as I have not used it in years, and will never use it again. As long as there are drivers, then whats the point? Security? Laugh....If someone actually use Windows update it only shows how technically inept they are.
Funny how its only trolling when I reply to one of your posts, yet not the other way around. I see you trolling more than anyone here. Thinking you have actual knowledge of everything from law, to tech, yet you call me the troll? The last thing I need from you, is moderation advice.
Squid Surprise
Posts: 5,565 +5,204
"
Microsoft now blocks Windows 7 and 8.1 updates on Kaby Lake, Ryzen systems"
This is the title of the article you are commenting on.... yet you just said you couldn't care less about Windows Update.... SO WHY ARE YOU POSTING IN HERE!?!?!?!? That's why I'm calling you a troll... because you are....
Microsoft is NOT forcing AMD or Intel into not supporting Windows 7/8... find me some evidence to back up that outrageous claim... The only case of "anti-trust" would be if some other company made Windows 7/8 - which is not the case...
No, I'm not a law expert - but I know how to use Google (which apparently you don't) and also have some common sense (which apparently you also lack).
foxrox
Posts: 50 +45
If it works for Windows 7 now then there is absolutely no reason it won't work the same later. There is no legitimate basis for artificial blockage.lol... fair enough... it's kind of pre-emptive non-support
They realize it works fine now.... but why bother to go to the effort to continue to make it work several years down the line? By denying support now, they make it so that 5 years from now, no one can complain that it doesn't work any more...
Now, I could see if it did not work already where they would be justified in taking a position that they are not going to invest time or resources in making it work for an old OS. I would get that totally and not lose any sleep over it. That is totally different than the "Hey, we are going to assume the liberty to intentionally eff up your computer, yes that's right--eff it up on purpose--in an effort to force you to use our new OS" approach they are taking. That is overstepping the boundaries and nobody would be OK with that if they have a lick of intelligence.
People can say they have a right to interfere all they want to, but, blah, blah, blah, that doesn't make it so. The question of fact hasn't been put before the trier of fact (meaning legal process) and at the end of the day those are the facts. Even if we assume they do have a right, I say the fact that they would even want to take their current position is more than reason enough to wish great harm to befall them as a company. That is not the way an intelligent business treats their customers. But, to be fair, Micro$loth has not qualified as an intelligently-run business for a very long time. Their anti-customer approach to things is truly despicable and it has become sort of a hallmark trait since Bill Gates gave the reigns over to a string incompetent executives, all of whom have failed miserably.
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foxrox
Posts: 50 +45
And how it is that you're not a troll after calling him one, LOL. Your comments and responses to others in this thread reflect great technical weakness and emotional immaturity.
What grade are you in, son? Maybe you should just stop and go play with the toys shown in your avatar before mommy says it is nap time.
Squid Surprise
Posts: 5,565 +5,204
Because OSes change over the years - new updates will be rolling out every week or 2, and having to employ people to make sure that it works with every piece of hardware is expensive and time-intensive...
To make myself clear here, I'm not declaring that MS is a wonderful company who makes a fantastic product.... I'm simply giving you the practical reasons for what they do, and that there is no reason to whine - it is what it is!
I believe THIS post is pretty much the definition of trolling... MY posts actually carry forward an argument and give reasons as to why I'm posting them.... Raiderman (and now you) are simply insulting me because you feel my argument is wrong. You're welcome to think that - but try backing up your points with some logic and/or evidence instead of just name-calling...
For the record, I'm 39 and am a school-teacher - I've got plenty of experience dealing with immature people
Raiderman
Posts: 68 +59
I can say the exact same thing to you..... WHY ARE YOU POSTING HERE! You only accept your own opinion as valid, and me calling you out continuously has resulted in you naming me a troll. I express my opinions on the subject, while questioning yours at the same time.
Since you so boldly posted the forum title above, let me explain that the subject at hand can go many different directions. Meaning, it can and may skew off to other topics, mostly about Microsoft in general.
So calling me a troll for expressing my opinion, almost always against yours, by definition is not trolling. FYI, it means disagreeing. You are one of those people that can never be wrong and always right? Good conclusion?
Find some evidence of MS forcing AMD and Intel to not support older OS'es? OMG, and you called me out for not knowing how to google?
Squid Surprise
Posts: 5,565 +5,204
See... you once again prove yourself a troll...
I understand that you disagree with me - but you make counterarguments by stating opinions as facts and going off-topic to things I wasn't arguing about and have nothing to do with this thread...
My argument: MS isn't letting you use Windows Update on Ryzen/Kaby Lake CPUs running old OSes because they want you to use Windows 10. They want you to use Windows 10 so that they don't have to keep employing people to make sure all their future software patches, etc work with a bunch of different things...
I never argued that this is a "good" thing - I agree that MS isn't exactly a shining example of a good Samaritan... but they DID warn us that Windows7/8 wouldn't support Ryzen/Kaby Lake, so whining and b1tching has no real point.
Your argument seems to be that MS is forcing Intel and AMD to not support Windows 10... not only is this not what the current article is about, you have provided no evidence to support this claim.... Yes, I can use Google - I've found no evidence to support this other than other people's conspiracy theories and rumours... feel free to post your evidence, otherwise I'm going to continue believing that you're wrong...
What you HAVE done is spout on and on about how wrong I am and that I'm a troll... please provide some evidence
I think that's enough "troll" talk. Kindly stick to the issues without bringing personal attacks into the discussion. Thank you.
foxrox
Posts: 50 +45
Their "warning" was sword rattling and a threat that turned out to be the big fat lie many of us believed it was when they said it the first time. One of my reasons for purchasing my first 7700K CPU was to run it under Windows 7 in order to call public attention to their lies and deception designed to coerce the adoption of Windows 10. People that wanted 7700K but did not want Windows 10 were grateful to see their lies exposed for what they really are.
Micro$loth is a dishonorable company that has no qualms about using lies and deception to further their own agenda. They are not unique in this regard, but they are deserving of any and all lost respect and admiration because of it. Intel, NVIDIA and to some extent AMD, are equally nefarious. My position is, for those of us that never believed the lies and now that it is proven they lied, they are now going to plan B to try to force the issue by scaring people that seem to believe Windows Updates are magically important.
This is all baloney and if they arbitrarily elect to block updates to OSes that have been 100% proven, beyond any shadow of doubt, to be effective at running Kaby Lake and Ryzen that are not Windows 10, they are far more underhanded and despicable than we might have ever imagined. Anyone that cannot see this for what it is must be either a dullard or a shill.
They really do need to have the living daylights sued out of them for this. It is totally wrong, even though I do not care about Windows Updates and already block them myself. That's not the point. Their untoward behavior, evil at its core and fabricated for the sole purpose of defrauding people that should be viewed as their ticket to paradise should be dealt with in a very harsh and financially destructive manner as a deterrent to similar behavior in the future. They need to live to serve us, not vice versa. If they do it right, they deserve to be paid for it.
Micro$loth is a dishonorable company that has no qualms about using lies and deception to further their own agenda. They are not unique in this regard, but they are deserving of any and all lost respect and admiration because of it. Intel, NVIDIA and to some extent AMD, are equally nefarious. My position is, for those of us that never believed the lies and now that it is proven they lied, they are now going to plan B to try to force the issue by scaring people that seem to believe Windows Updates are magically important.
This is all baloney and if they arbitrarily elect to block updates to OSes that have been 100% proven, beyond any shadow of doubt, to be effective at running Kaby Lake and Ryzen that are not Windows 10, they are far more underhanded and despicable than we might have ever imagined. Anyone that cannot see this for what it is must be either a dullard or a shill.
They really do need to have the living daylights sued out of them for this. It is totally wrong, even though I do not care about Windows Updates and already block them myself. That's not the point. Their untoward behavior, evil at its core and fabricated for the sole purpose of defrauding people that should be viewed as their ticket to paradise should be dealt with in a very harsh and financially destructive manner as a deterrent to similar behavior in the future. They need to live to serve us, not vice versa. If they do it right, they deserve to be paid for it.
Raiderman
Posts: 68 +59
Agreed, Foxrox. Windows updates are not as important as MS would like us to believe, and the fact that they are becoming more desperate with every passing hour to push their crapware, only goes to prove how despicable they have become. Looking at Microsoft through rose colored glasses, and burying your head in the sand only promotes others to do the same thing. Stand up for your freedom of choice, and stand up for an OS that you are in control of, not the other way around. If in the future that becomes Windows 10, then I will gladly buy/use it, but only if I control how it operates on my hardware.
vhfan
Posts: 47 +36
Stop being cheap and buy Windows 10 Pro.I did, but that is not the point.Stop living in the past - like it or not, Windows 10 will be the OS of the future - so just give in, install the bloody thing, and live with it
Having to intentionally program a Windows Update block, to out-date an OS with the use of new hardware is outrageous. This is a tactic that should be unlawful.
It's not the cost of Win 10 that prevents people from upgrading, (downgrading actually) it's simply that Windows 10 SUCKS period.
I gave it a chance numerous times and the more I have used it the more I hated it. It's an atrocious OS , it's packed solid with complete garbage that MS makes it as hard as possible to remove , the whole "tile" look is God awful but it's biggest fault is the mind boggling amount of spying thats going on.
Wilders Security forums showed what MS is doing and how often they are doing it and it's much much worse than MS has always claimed & what people think .
I don't mind some intrusion , it's just part of using a computer but what MS is doing should be a crime. Don't believe all that nonsense about it's easy to turnoff either .
Win 7 is the superior operating system and it's why Win 7 still dominates Win 10 and will continue to do so .
MS knows they failed and is doing everything it can to force people to use Win 10 , when they give back user control and get rid of all the garbage that comes with it people might change their minds , stripped down version without all the crap would be much more appealing .
Most independent people know what they want and most DO NOT want pro liberal companies like MS/MSN telling them they know whats best and you don't .
Liberalism has always been considered a devastating mental disorder and for very good reason , MS has had it for years and it could prove fatal.
Squid Surprise
Posts: 5,565 +5,204
What lie?!?! They said they would not officially support Windows 7/8/Vista on Kaby Lake or Ryzen.... and they don't.... No one claimed it wouldn't work on those CPUs - there is just no official support...
This is basically just covering their @sses so that if some future patch breaks it later, no one can sue them since they were warned... and now they don't have to employ people to make sure everything continues to work...
No need to invoke a conspiracy here...
foxrox
Posts: 50 +45
Oh c'mon really? If you honestly believe they never lied or misrepresented things, I've got some ocean beach property on the outskirts of Phoenix that might be of interest to you.
The only conspiracies that exist are those that their incessant deceptive and conniving behavior create. Almost every Windows Update released is a form of them covering their butt to deflect accountability.
They wanted people to believe that Kaby Lake would not function correctly on any OS except Windows 10 and that was and is not accurate. Kaby Lake actually performs better on Windows 7 where physics performance is concerned.
Squid Surprise
Posts: 5,565 +5,204
Can you provide a link to this lie please?
Raiderman
Posts: 68 +59
Everything.must have a link to the internet to be true, right? If it's on the internet it must be true, and of course if a link cannot be provided it must be false. That's a scary way of thinking.
Microsoft: "New CPUs have new features that require special OS support features that only Windows 10 will have. As such, we won't support newer CPU generations on any OS besides 10, and neither will AMD or Intel."
User: "Hey, wait, isn't 8.1 pretty much the same as 10 under the hood? And it's still in mainstream support too. Wouldn't it be absolutely trivial for you to support these new CPU generations on it?"
Microsoft: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
User: "Hey, look, My Kaby Lake is working great under Windows 7! And AMD has released a Windows 7 driver for Ryzen too."
Microsoft, with a snarl and through clenched teeth: "We said it won't work and that it's not supported, and that means it won't work and it's not supported. Do you not listen?"
User: "But it is working... quite well, in fact. Take a look at it!"
Microsoft: "I can see this is going to be a problem. Temporarily."
User: "HEY! What is this message telling me that I won't be getting any updates in Windows because my CPU is not supported?"
Microsoft: "See, we told you it wouldn't work!"
User: "But it does work. It's working right now, even without you supporting it. Detecting my CPU and arbitrarily blocking updates isn't the same as it not working or not being supported!"
Microsoft: "We told you a long time ago that it was not going to work very well because only Windows 10 has the new technology the new CPUs require. We told you it was not supported! Why are you acting surprised?"
User: "Yes, you told us it would not work without all of the advanced technology in 10, and that clearly was nothing but a big fat lie. You said it was not supported, but I never asked you for any support."
Microsoft: "You want us to support it with updates!"
User: "That's not what it means to say that something isn't supported. What you're saying is that it's not allowed, but you don't have the authority to say that. The only controlling authority is in the EULA, and there isn't anything in it that gives you the authority to withhold updates if it is installed on seventh-generation CPUs. It says you will provide updates for ten years past the release date, and that's not until 2020. That's still legally binding, whether you claim to support the CPU or not."
Microsoft: "I am altering the deal. Pray I don't alter it any further."
User: "Hey, wait, isn't 8.1 pretty much the same as 10 under the hood? And it's still in mainstream support too. Wouldn't it be absolutely trivial for you to support these new CPU generations on it?"
Microsoft: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
User: "Hey, look, My Kaby Lake is working great under Windows 7! And AMD has released a Windows 7 driver for Ryzen too."
Microsoft, with a snarl and through clenched teeth: "We said it won't work and that it's not supported, and that means it won't work and it's not supported. Do you not listen?"
User: "But it is working... quite well, in fact. Take a look at it!"
Microsoft: "I can see this is going to be a problem. Temporarily."
User: "HEY! What is this message telling me that I won't be getting any updates in Windows because my CPU is not supported?"
Microsoft: "See, we told you it wouldn't work!"
User: "But it does work. It's working right now, even without you supporting it. Detecting my CPU and arbitrarily blocking updates isn't the same as it not working or not being supported!"
Microsoft: "We told you a long time ago that it was not going to work very well because only Windows 10 has the new technology the new CPUs require. We told you it was not supported! Why are you acting surprised?"
User: "Yes, you told us it would not work without all of the advanced technology in 10, and that clearly was nothing but a big fat lie. You said it was not supported, but I never asked you for any support."
Microsoft: "You want us to support it with updates!"
User: "That's not what it means to say that something isn't supported. What you're saying is that it's not allowed, but you don't have the authority to say that. The only controlling authority is in the EULA, and there isn't anything in it that gives you the authority to withhold updates if it is installed on seventh-generation CPUs. It says you will provide updates for ten years past the release date, and that's not until 2020. That's still legally binding, whether you claim to support the CPU or not."
Microsoft: "I am altering the deal. Pray I don't alter it any further."
Someone8MyPosts
Posts: 464 +146
Intel and AMD should simply just block the OS from working on their newest chipsets that will be coming in the next year or so and say, "fine, we can do that, too. You're hurting our sales, we'll hurt yours. Chrome and Linux OS, here we come!"
