Nvidia putting the squeeze on AIB partners

LemmingOverlrd

Posts: 86   +40
Why it matters: We are slowly watching Nvidia dominate the GPU market, and whether we like their technology or not, a lack of competition is a sure-fire way to get price hikes and lack of innovation. Just ask Intel.

A report by Taiwanese analysts at Digitimes claims that graphics card makers are being pressured into doing more than their share for Nvidia.

For the most part the report is a 'matter of fact' statement on Nvidia's recent financial disclosure, nothing new there. However, it hits home when it says Nvidia is forcing "more than 10 graphic card makers" to "swallow contracted shipments released by Nvidia to deplete its inventories, in order to secure that they can be among the first batch of customers to get sufficient supply quotas of new-generation GPUs."

Considering the reports that Nvidia's tardiness in the cryptomining market left it sitting on a treasure trove of GeForce 10 Series GPUs, this means that AIB partners are now being forced to take on the surplus GPUs in order to secure supply to meet their own GeForce 20 Series card production targets.

This will likely have a dual effect on the market. On the one side, we are starting to witness a glut of cheap 10-series cards, and on the other the new pricing will erode AMD's mid-market position, prompting even more consumers to switch over to Nvidia, and putting AMD further under pressure in the graphics arena.

With the announcement of the GeForce RTX 20-series cards, the gaming GPU market seems to have slid into a one-horse show with no word of AMD's Navi and Intel having made clear its discrete GPU plans are only relevant for 2020. This is allowing Nvidia to put the squeeze on partners, much like a monopoly.

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nVidia already dominates the GPU market. Any more efforts to quash competition is certainly going to bring the attention of market regulators and they could very well find themselves coughing up massive fines for unfairly cornering the sales and distribution of GPU's.
 
AIB partners should start making SLI on board or X2 version of every last-gen GPU to deplete the inventory quickly.
IMO, they all should raise their middle fingers and tell nVidia to put their chips where the sun don't shine.

nVidia already dominates the GPU market. Any more efforts to quash competition is certainly going to bring the attention of market regulators and they could very well find themselves coughing up massive fines for unfairly cornering the sales and distribution of GPU's.
Agreed! Talk about inviting anti-competitive lawsuits.
 
nVidia already dominates the GPU market. Any more efforts to quash competition is certainly going to bring the attention of market regulators and they could very well find themselves coughing up massive fines for unfairly cornering the sales and distribution of GPU's.
massive fine thats laughable. no matter the fine, it won't be affecting them just like oil companies dump their crap in the ocean, the fine is a joke so they just keep doing it.
 
Then maybe the AIBs should get together and refuse to buy any 20 series chips from nVidia for the next 6 months. See how the bully likes having the entire playground turn on them.
 
Just because other graphics card makers haven't revealed their gpus, does not mean Intel has a monopoly. They are simply just the first to market with the new cards.
 
Ahhh so that is how Nvidia plans to take marketshare before Navi is ready - dirt cheap 10-series cards.


They probably figure they can dump most of their $199 1060's and $349 1070's before the RTX 2070 and 2060 launch this fall.

The real question will be how far AMD lowers prices on their cards. The fact is they can still make really good profits on $150 RX 580's lol - Polaris is over 2 years old guys! Furthermore the second Vega starts getting close to $300, it will be worth buying in bulk for mining again.
 
When you're the only show in town you dictate and do as you please. You can blame Nvidia for this, but every major corporation that finds themselves in this position usually abuses the crap out of such domination. The fact is they have just been doing their jobs a lot better than the graphics division at AMD.

If AMD weren't in such a poor state this wouldn't be happening. They had Nvidia on the run with the Radeon 4000 and 5000 series, the 7000 wasn't bad either but since then it's been gradually downhill.

I hope that all that Ryzen cash flowing in is quickly put into the graphics division.
 
Why do we care about the 3rd party graphics card makers? They're the one who hiked their prices when cryptominers were taking all the cards..... They SHOULD have to shoulder some of the glut 10 series cards here - they profited just as much from Nvidia as the other way around.

The 10 series cards still sell - and they will continue to do so...They won't compete with the 20 series cards, they'll compete with the mid-series 20 series cards - which haven't been announced yet! There's a reason only the high-end 20 series cards have been announced... I would wager the mid and low end 20 series cards will "coincidentally" find their way to shelves once these 10 series cards are gone...
 
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This is great news, an oversupply of graphics chips will flood the market and make everything cheaper for the consumer. The only people who will be upset about this are AMD fans as this is almost certainly going to decimate whatever remains of their market share. Quad core i3 paired with a GTX1070 in a complete rig for less than $600 anyone?

And as for the third party manufacturers, I couldn’t care less about them, remember that it was the third party OEMs who hiked prices up during the mining boom whilst Nvidia continued to sell cards at MSRP direct from their website.

And people who think that cheaper cards will reignite GPU mining can think again. Mining difficulty has increased by so much and the value of the coins decreased by so much that it practically costs more in energy required to mine than you can make in mining these days, or at least the profit takes years to come. Certainly, in parts of the world with expensive energy.
 
When you're the only show in town you dictate and do as you please. You can blame Nvidia for this, but every major corporation that finds themselves in this position usually abuses the crap out of such domination. The fact is they have just been doing their jobs a lot better than the graphics division at AMD.

If AMD weren't in such a poor state this wouldn't be happening. They had Nvidia on the run with the Radeon 4000 and 5000 series, the 7000 wasn't bad either but since then it's been gradually downhill.

I hope that all that Ryzen cash flowing in is quickly put into the graphics division.


The problem here is that nVidia always had a bigger mindshare and even when 4000 - 7000 Radeons were out nVidia made like 10 times more money than AMD on graphics cards eventually AMD couldn't complete because they run out of money
 
All these tears - for what?

A contract is a contract - and enforcement of thus - is what keeps the world spinning as it does.

I - have not seen the contract(s), but it sounds like Nvidia is merely expecting them to follow through on their existing agreements.

If the contract says otherwise - then yeah, Nvidia is playing unfair.

But that's not what I get from this story.

Hence, no story here.
 
These are the same AIBs that milked $800+ out of 1080s right? Why should I feel bad for them? They made record profits and many ignore AMD GPUs completely. This is what you get.

What they SHOULD do is tell nvidia where to stick it, but none of them have the brass balls to do that.

When you're the only show in town you dictate and do as you please. You can blame Nvidia for this, but every major corporation that finds themselves in this position usually abuses the crap out of such domination. The fact is they have just been doing their jobs a lot better than the graphics division at AMD.

If AMD weren't in such a poor state this wouldn't be happening. They had Nvidia on the run with the Radeon 4000 and 5000 series, the 7000 wasn't bad either but since then it's been gradually downhill.

I hope that all that Ryzen cash flowing in is quickly put into the graphics division.


The problem here is that nVidia always had a bigger mindshare and even when 4000 - 7000 Radeons were out nVidia made like 10 times more money than AMD on graphics cards eventually AMD couldn't complete because they run out of money
And here come the fanboy excuses.

The 5000 series came very, VERY close to taking over 50% marketshare from nvidia's 400 series. If nvidia was making "10 times the money" despite that, then AMD was wasting MASSIVE amounts of cash. That is AMD's fault, not the consumer.

This "midshare" you speak of isnt some nebulous nvidia plot. When AMD is competitive, they sell well. The reason AMD's sales never competed well with nvidia are multi-layered, but boil down to the fact that AMD didnt always compete. The 2000 series had heat problems, the 4000 and 5000 series were great (and again, AMD nearly took 51% marketshare during this time) and sold well. The 6000s AMD fell asleep at the wheel, assumed nvidia couldnt compete, and rebrandeon'ed the 5000 line, with only the 6950/70 being new cards, and proceeded to be utterly blind-sighted by the GTX 580. The 7970 was a grat card, duking it out with the 680, but again, AMD's drivers were notably inferior to nvidias in terms of support, releases, bug fixes, and bugs that broke games. It was STILL common practice to keep several catalyst drivers on hand for whatever game you wanted to play.

When a company doesnt competitively compete consistently, consumer confidence in the brand drops. AMD's sales are not kept artificially low by this mystical "mindshare", its the simple fact that consumers got tired of dealing with AMD's lack of support, and so sales dropped. Nvidia's marketshare hit a record hgih because AMD's 300 series was 9 months late and full of nothing but rebranded GPUs that were not competitive with nvidias. AMD finally got their act together with the 400 series and, surprise surprise, sales rose, despite AMD not competing against 2/3rds of nvidia's GPUs. VEGA's sales tanked because again AMD fell asleep at the wheel and developed an arch that was slower, hotter, more power hungry, and more expensive and difficult to produce using a difficult to use memory that was in short supply compared to a year old 1080.

If AMD would drop the constant attempts to make HBM a thing, stop the constant special feature development that no devs will use (mantle, tressFX, async, ece), and just concentrate on making fast capable GPUs, they would have a much larger market then they have now. No special mindshare, just a capitalist economy stating that the non competitive company is going to struggle to stay afloat as long as they push poor support and inferior GPUs.
\
Hopefully, with raja gone and Su firmly in control, the same care that went into ryzen will be applied to radeon, but I am not holding my breath.
 
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Not sure if there is anything illegal in this, but I don't mind cheaper hardware.
Personally, I am not so sure that this will drive prices down for 10 series cards. Per Tom's Hardware - https://www.tomshardware.com/news/best-nvidia-gpu-deals,37668.html there are a very few places selling 10 series cards at outrageous prices. However, a quick check of other retailers and by far, these "fire sale" prices are not universal.

Honestly, I would be very surprised if nVidia reduced the price on 10 series silicon to OEMs even after the launch of the 20 series silicon.
 
These are the same AIBs that milked $800+ out of 1080s right? Why should I feel bad for them? They made record profits and many ignore AMD GPUs completely. This is what you get.

What they SHOULD do is tell nvidia where to stick it, but none of them have the brass balls to do that.

When you're the only show in town you dictate and do as you please. You can blame Nvidia for this, but every major corporation that finds themselves in this position usually abuses the crap out of such domination. The fact is they have just been doing their jobs a lot better than the graphics division at AMD.

If AMD weren't in such a poor state this wouldn't be happening. They had Nvidia on the run with the Radeon 4000 and 5000 series, the 7000 wasn't bad either but since then it's been gradually downhill.

I hope that all that Ryzen cash flowing in is quickly put into the graphics division.


The problem here is that nVidia always had a bigger mindshare and even when 4000 - 7000 Radeons were out nVidia made like 10 times more money than AMD on graphics cards eventually AMD couldn't complete because they run out of money
And here come the fanboy excuses.

The 5000 series came very, VERY close to taking over 50% marketshare from nvidia's 400 series. If nvidia was making "10 times the money" despite that, then AMD was wasting MASSIVE amounts of cash. That is AMD's fault, not the consumer.

This "midshare" you speak of isnt some nebulous nvidia plot. When AMD is competitive, they sell well. The reason AMD's sales never competed well with nvidia are multi-layered, but boil down to the fact that AMD didnt always compete. The 2000 series had heat problems, the 4000 and 5000 series were great (and again, AMD nearly took 51% marketshare during this time) and sold well. The 6000s AMD fell asleep at the wheel, assumed nvidia couldnt compete, and rebrandeon'ed the 5000 line, with only the 6950/70 being new cards, and proceeded to be utterly blind-sighted by the GTX 580. The 7970 was a grat card, duking it out with the 680, but again, AMD's drivers were notably inferior to nvidias in terms of support, releases, bug fixes, and bugs that broke games. It was STILL common practice to keep several catalyst drivers on hand for whatever game you wanted to play.

When a company doesnt competitively compete consistently, consumer confidence in the brand drops. AMD's sales are not kept artificially low by this mystical "mindshare", its the simple fact that consumers got tired of dealing with AMD's lack of support, and so sales dropped. Nvidia's marketshare hit a record hgih because AMD's 300 series was 9 months late and full of nothing but rebranded GPUs that were not competitive with nvidias. AMD finally got their act together with the 400 series and, surprise surprise, sales rose, despite AMD not competing against 2/3rds of nvidia's GPUs. VEGA's sales tanked because again AMD fell asleep at the wheel and developed an arch that was slower, hotter, more power hungry, and more expensive and difficult to produce using a difficult to use memory that was in short supply compared to a year old 1080.

If AMD would drop the constant attempts to make HBM a thing, stop the constant special feature development that no devs will use (mantle, tressFX, async, ece), and just concentrate on making fast capable GPUs, they would have a much larger market then they have now. No special mindshare, just a capitalist economy stating that the non competitive company is going to struggle to stay afloat as long as they push poor support and inferior GPUs.
\
Hopefully, with raja gone and Su firmly in control, the same care that went into ryzen will be applied to radeon, but I am not holding my breath.

Cast in point: My only AMD GPU was a 4890. The driver install program failed to work properly (some Visual C++ incompatibility they never fixed) requiring me to install via command prompt. Oh, and the card died after three months. It's replacement made it six.
 
Cast in point: My only AMD GPU was a 4890. The driver install program failed to work properly (some Visual C++ incompatibility they never fixed) requiring me to install via command prompt. Oh, and the card died after three months. It's replacement made it six.
You must be mistaken!! Ask some of our loyal AMD posters - they’ll tell you that all AMD video cards are future proof... they might not be as good as their Nvidia equivalents at launch, but in a few years, they’ll be able to give be Titan performance!
 
You mean sli on Board as in built in sli with the mobo?

I meant cards like GTX 295, 590, and 690 but made with non-flag ship chips. AMD had something like 4850 X2 as well as 4870 X2 back in the day.

To be honest this makes the most sense, both for moving inventory, and keeping cost down for board partners in terms of cost per chip on the market. Since they can basically halve the number of memory chips they need per chip (SLI and Xfire cards don't pool memory iirc, they just share the 'master' chip's mem), that means the still relatively high cost of graphics memory would hurt quite a bit less per board. I really don't understand why these cards stopped being produced in the recent series.
 
You mean sli on Board as in built in sli with the mobo?

I meant cards like GTX 295, 590, and 690 but made with non-flag ship chips. AMD had something like 4850 X2 as well as 4870 X2 back in the day.

To be honest this makes the most sense, both for moving inventory, and keeping cost down for board partners in terms of cost per chip on the market. Since they can basically halve the number of memory chips they need per chip (SLI and Xfire cards don't pool memory iirc, they just share the 'master' chip's mem), that means the still relatively high cost of graphics memory would hurt quite a bit less per board. I really don't understand why these cards stopped being produced in the recent series.
No, dual cards need dual memory - each chip needs it's own memory budget.
 
The problem here is that nVidia always had a bigger mindshare and even when 4000 - 7000 Radeons were out nVidia made like 10 times more money than AMD on graphics cards eventually AMD couldn't complete because they run out of money

Hmmmm 10 times more money is horribly inaccurate. Go look at Nvidia's losses during 2009 due to flaws in previous mobile parts and then weaknesses of Fermi.

AMD's market share when they built better cards was much much higher. They kept Nvidia honest and gave them a bloody nose more than once. It was that simple. As has been pointed out during the disaster that was the GTX400 series Nvidia were in trouble with those parts. They were very expensive to make and AMD had a much smaller, cheaper GPU such as the HD5870 with virtually as much performance. Gamers snapped it up, their market share increased significantly.

The past 7/8 years AMD's CPU troubles had been dragging the company down overall, the graphics division was actually profitable while the CPU side sank without trace. Now they are selling CPUs again it should help fund better investment to fix their fairly poor recent GPU efforts.

No, dual cards need dual memory - each chip needs it's own memory budget.

If they had enough bandwidth and low latency on a custom design then they would be fine sharing memory. Nvidia themselves are rolling out Nvlink in the new higher end RTX series, which if it works the same as the Quadro cards you'll be able to have the GPUs share memory as one pool. SLI was always severely bandwidth limited in the connection between cards but this would change that.
 
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