cliffordcooley
Posts: 13,141 +6,441
@dualkelly - Yep! That is the trouble with Christians. Despite calling themselves Christians, they don't live by the book.
Over 20,000 Christians sign petition demanding Netflix cancels Good Omens, a show on Amazon...
- Thread starter midian182
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Yes sir, some of the laws written for the ancient world, they are unthinkable for this generation. I mean even the best of the people of that age to us look like savages. And compared to us...Well we can look at the Muslim part of the world today that still lives by the laws that we find barbaric.
But you sir might not know something I learned well regarding the history of that time. The thing being is that people there were often beyond wicked.
You might not know about a common practice of newborn sacrifices, slavery being THE ENTIRE wolrds' normal thing. I dont think I need to list for you all the terrible thinsg that slavery brings, a mother seeing her children to be sold as sex toys, fathers watching his children beaten to death because they didnt worked hard enough. People were things and most saw that as a norm. Then isnt it crazy that this books actually calls for treating the slaves as human beings?
You dont think so.
I think it might not know that while some things in this book are simply something we cant accept today, these were the things that stood above where the planet was during that time sinking in lawlesness rapes murders and darkness of the hearts.
The kingdoms of that time for example designated a time of the year to go to war . Which probably refers to raiding in small occurrences and to massive campaigns enslaving their neighbors in other instances. I recently started to uncover the things during second world war I wish I didnt know. And I came to realize that each war brings these atrocities. But these atrocities were a norm then because the wars were so common.
You want to say that it was the evil book. But you should look at the history of mankind. Greed, pride, and never ending thirst for power and money.
It amuses me greatly when people find things to blame for humanity's wrong doings.
Nazism, Christianity, Allah, I am not gonna keep going but you can probably add many more.
The only thing to blame is inside of you. And me. And all of us.
treetops
Posts: 3,064 +784
I thought man was supposed to adjust to gods law, not the other way around? Are you saying god bent the knee to mans law, to make gods laws more palatable? God changes the rules on sin to suit humans? Or maybe some guy wrote "gods law" to relate to his times. Much like some guy at your church is telling you gods law now.
Take food..... Does this look like a god that sees the past, present, and future? All knowing, all powerful and infinite in knowledge.
Don't wear two different types of material?
Leviticus 19:19
“You shall keep my statutes. You shall not let your cattle breed with a different kind. You shall not sow your field with two kinds of seed, nor shall you wear a garment of cloth made of two kinds of material.
How about all the stuff you can sometimes go to hell for eating, depending on how god feels. Or wait maybe some dude who acts like god is telling him what to say? No that's just crazy?
https://www.openbible.info/topics/eating_seafood
Now we are getting to the area where you are to accept something that the book described in the past, and believe something the book tells will happen in the future.
The fulfillment of time is mentioned many times throughout the Bible.
I dont have anythign to tell you beside that. If you look at the core of the bible, it says you are to live and be saved by faith. And this is where it stops for many people.
"How about all the stuff you can sometimes go to hell for eating, depending on how god feels. Or wait maybe some dude who acts like god is telling him what to say? No that's just crazy?
"
Yes. crazy describes it very correctly. But what if I told you the same book called this foolishness 2000 years ago? I dont wanna look for specific text but it says that for those who dont believe this teaching appears as foolishness and those who believe fools. Well, I cant agrue with you repeating what has been told and written thousands of years ago.
I mean, look at the human history these 2 thousand years.
look at the people that carried this teaching till now.
Some poor, some wealthy. Scientist, doctors,
miners, maids. It amuses me how like in the posts above
people like to point out the worst things associated with Christianity which
I argued was associated with people themselves more than anything.
There and there are not just very good people but also very smart
and respectful in many generations who had nothing to hide about their believes/faith.
What im trying to say is if it was simply the thing of intellect, then only low iq people would become Christians. If you gonna say that you will amuse me. There is no doubt that a typical suburb church has people doing a variety of jobs and taking a range of positions in their settlement.
Foolish teaching survived some of the worst persecutions living through empires and dictatorships. Foolish teaching changed lives of those who thought to study it to the last percent and crash it with logic and common sense. It is not a matter of logic when it clearly something that some simply are not to grasp it.
It is up to you to conclude at this point that it is a pile of baloney, or
go way more complicated way and learn why it stayed alive till now and keeps capturing people's minds.
treetops
Posts: 3,064 +784
There is value in the bible, but these people protesting this fictional tv show is beyond hypocritical. All the sins in the bible have also lived on and captured peoples minds as you put it.
Here is another fictional quote
"There ain't no sin and there ain't no virtue. There's just stuff people do. It's all part of the same thing. And some of the things folks do is nice, and some ain't nice, but that's as far as any man got a right to say.'" -Grapes of Wrath
It's rough around the edges, but also has some value. And to younger minds probably a lot of introspection. I've pointed out some grievances. All the best.
If you remember, my argument was that these people call themselves something or even place themselves where they believe it allows them to act in certain way which they also believe something they ought to do. Today the loudest things the world hears about Christianity are things like westboro "church" or other deranged groups.
Why should you believe that these small groups represent larger, way more neutral
and positive communities?
Why have you not heard about a small group of people (of which some are my relatives) that for the last 5 years gathered their own money and built homes for very poor Mexicans families. Why aren't you aware about the same people that opened a rehab center for Mexican teens using hard narcotics.
Im not gonna point at you but it will be very fair to say that a lot of people do not give a **** about that kind of good stuff somebody does to others. It is not entertaining and for cold hearts don't feel anything even if they happen to discover about something like that, unlike minor vocal communities of very negative ideas and hate speech that also call themselves Christians.
Im not sure if you quoted Grapes of Wrath to express the idea of no good or evil. If not, then disregard what I say below. Without touching too much on it, my theory or a wild guess is that someone who can say there is no virtue/good possibly doesn't have it in themselves. And if somebody doesn't have something, it is fair to say they might not know it exist.
captaincranky
Posts: 19,684 +8,825
FIXED! You apparently overlooked the fact that, "Cain slew Able", so I added "fratricide", to your list of "good Christian attributes".
Mr Majestyk
Posts: 2,058 +1,903
Christ would spit in the face of these morons and have nothing to do with the oxygen thieves. Go Netflix! Just ignore them.
captaincranky
Posts: 19,684 +8,825
Those petitioning in the name of "Christianity", are ultimately nothing more than a piecemeal mob of SJWs, who have so convinced themselves of their own righteousness, the WHO should incorporate a new deviant mental health diagnosis into the real "bible": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diagnostic_and_Statistical_Manual_of_Mental_Disorders
Let's call our new diagnosis, "paranoid delusions of goodness, combined with hyperbolically exaggerated sanctimony, and fantasies of absolute virtue". It's likely best placed in the schizophrenia spectrum. After all, they are "hearing the voice of god" telling them to take up this cause with all the frenzy they can muster. And well, when you start hearing voices and proclaiming "I'm not crazy", you should realize what conclusions other, more rational individuals, are likely to draw..
Let's call our new diagnosis, "paranoid delusions of goodness, combined with hyperbolically exaggerated sanctimony, and fantasies of absolute virtue". It's likely best placed in the schizophrenia spectrum. After all, they are "hearing the voice of god" telling them to take up this cause with all the frenzy they can muster. And well, when you start hearing voices and proclaiming "I'm not crazy", you should realize what conclusions other, more rational individuals, are likely to draw..
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cliffordcooley
Posts: 13,141 +6,441
WOW, you really don't know him very well do you.
captaincranky
Posts: 19,684 +8,825
Does anybody?
cliffordcooley
Posts: 13,141 +6,441
Yes, those that read and/or study the (you know which book). There was no evil or vindictive bone in his body.
captaincranky
Posts: 19,684 +8,825
- Evolution has "graced" our species with an insatiable and overbearing ego. It's an evil and ongoing prank that was played on us. The ego tells us that each and every one of us are unexpendable and irreplaceable, and consequently demands that we as individuals, must exist in perpetuity.
As a result of this non sequitur mental dynamic, heaven was born out of necessity, not because it provably exists.
The western half of the Roman Empire was in severe decline when its 1st Christian Emperor took power. The exaggerated hope that the principles in the teachings of Jesus instilled in the lower classes of Roman society, proved to be making them ever more uncontrollable. The "Holy Roman Catholic Church" was formed, or rather succeeded on the principles of Jujitsu, using your opponent's own "strength" against him. Thus what standing armies were no longer able to accomplish in the way of control, the church preyed on the ego's greatest fear, that it would cease to exist. Thus, if you didn't toe the Pope's hard line, the eternal damnation of hell eagerly awaited its next resident. The Catholic church's power and influence extended throughout Europe, to the extent where it decided which woman any king must take as his queen.. When that didn't provide enough in treasure to satisfy the Church's innate and oddly all too human greed, it sent Conquistadors to the new world to either convert or slaughter the indigenous people's of the regions it chose to infest. This being done under the pretense of "spreading the word of Jesus, and offering 'salvation' to the world's heathen population".
In the meantime the church proved to be a refuge to a class of people, pedophiles included, who couldn't really face the competition and consequences of life outside the church's shielding umbrella.
It helps to think of clergy as a tight knit theater group, which puts on the same play, week after week, month after month, century after century, in perpetuity. And remember, repetition is the primary vehicle of propaganda.
So now we get to the bible. It likely serves as an entertaining collection of fables to bring the concepts of good, evil, right and wrong to children, but if you still need it to do good for the potential reward that its teachings have managed to convince you exist, then you haven't learned a damned thing from it.
Every person is his or her own god, it's called a "conscience", if cultivated properly it rewards good done, and punishes evil. Granted it has to be developed, but if you need a stack of bullsh!t stories from up to five millenia ago to steer the "Good Ship Clifford" away from the rocks of complete and callous self interest, you've got big problems.
I hope you enjoyed this little diatribe. I confess to having a Pavlovian reaction whereas I start growling, every time I have a bible thumped at me.
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cliffordcooley
Posts: 13,141 +6,441
I know that was your opinion. And that is why we are not having a conversation. My opinion is you are wrong and I'm willing to leave it at that. You are not going to sway my opinion, so don't even try. I know the truth and sad that you can't see it.
captaincranky
Posts: 19,684 +8,825
Oh thank you Cliff, for your self righteous, self serving determination of the what constitutes, "the gospel according to Clifford".
As for "that's why we are not having this conversation", is the forum equivalent of putting your hands over your ears and saying "LaLaLaLaLaLa",... ad naseum. You don't really have a plausible answer to any of the historically accurate facts I presented, so you present some sanctimonious crap about how "it's really beneath you to enjoin the conversation", then put your tail between your legs, and scurry off to snipe and run on another topic.
As for you and Mr. @havok585 your devotion is impressive, but IMHO, you two should be lighting candles and holding hands at an abortion clinic "right to life" rally, instead of pretending to be scientifically minded individuals.
In truth though I have to admit, there is a place for organized religion in the world. It's here for convicts to embrace, in order to con the parole board to consent to their release from prison before serving their full ride
A Muslim skullcap is relatively cheap https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taqiyah_(cap and having to pray 5 (?) times at day at regular intervals can get you out of assigned work and duties, all under the guise of "piety"..
cliffordcooley
Posts: 13,141 +6,441
Can you not see that is exactly what you are doing. Get off my back!!! I came in here stating that the phrase used was contradictory to the text. Nothing more, nothing less. Yet you are making it more and trying to turn it on everyone else.
captaincranky
Posts: 19,684 +8,825
@havok585 You have me mystified. you've denied "evolution" as a verifiable concept, yet you assert that we are "devolving". Our supposed "devolution", is proof of concept for both the monk Gregor Mendel's genetic experiments, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gregor_Mendel (Which I'm still wondering why they weren't denounced as "heresy") and serve to reinforce Darwin's observations about species characteristics always being in flux.. Although "change in a species" is not necessarily always for the better. In fact, it can signal the onset of its extinction.
Following Monk Mendel's principles, if you breed fat, ugly, stupid, lazy, and unable to live without government intervention together, after several generations, you'll get individuals with all of those traits "enhanced". (And yes,"enhanced was an intentional "oxymoron").
Of course this introduces the age old dogmatic argument about "nature versus nurture", when discussing the human species in particular. And not even I want to tackle that paradox with an individual with such a rigid and fixed belief system.
(Not to mention it would be completely off topic. What was this thread about anyway?).
Following Monk Mendel's principles, if you breed fat, ugly, stupid, lazy, and unable to live without government intervention together, after several generations, you'll get individuals with all of those traits "enhanced". (And yes,"enhanced was an intentional "oxymoron").
Of course this introduces the age old dogmatic argument about "nature versus nurture", when discussing the human species in particular. And not even I want to tackle that paradox with an individual with such a rigid and fixed belief system.
(Not to mention it would be completely off topic. What was this thread about anyway?).
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captaincranky
Posts: 19,684 +8,825
Nobody really invited @havok585 to enjoin the conversation by proclaiming me a fool and a heretic. You've been preaching since quite a ways back in this thread. You and I simply have different views and approaches.
Yours granted, is a bit more succinct. You proclaim yourself the "victor", without offering sensible rebuttal. "I know what I know because I know it", is ...who knows what exactly to call that line of "reasoning".
If you'll think back over our time in this forum, I don't honestly think I have done you any harm. That's "done you no harm", without the benefit of religious beliefs, or biblical support.
While we share polar opposite views on certain topics, nonetheless we are "like poles", and as you well know, "like poles repel".
.
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captaincranky
Posts: 19,684 +8,825
That's because the LGBT community has whimpered about "being persecuted" so long, so loud, and so hard, anything you might reference as being improper and unnatural, or deviant as to their lifestyle , some a**hole ACLU lawyer will instantly spin into an issue of hate speech and prejudice.
I can only imagine how bizarre the answers would have to be, to children's inevitable questions about, "where babies come from", when the topic comes up in a two male "marriage".
Sic: "Daddy one, is it true that babies come out of mommy's behinds? Did I come out of other daddy's behind"? To which alpha male daddy one replies, "why no son, we bought you from a nice Chinese couple, which means we love you more than all those heterosexual accidents running around at school... "
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Holy cow, looking at how people view christianity and the bible on here is shocking!
Can't believe people think the bible is a literal rulebook - can't be further from the truth.
Also grouping catholics and christians together as being the same thing - completely ridiculous.
To be honest it just sounds like people are grasping for justification and throwing mud and insults to try and dodge the real issue. How do the psychiatrists call it again.. projecting your own insecurities much?
Can't believe people think the bible is a literal rulebook - can't be further from the truth.
Also grouping catholics and christians together as being the same thing - completely ridiculous.
To be honest it just sounds like people are grasping for justification and throwing mud and insults to try and dodge the real issue. How do the psychiatrists call it again.. projecting your own insecurities much?
captaincranky
Posts: 19,684 +8,825
And not grouping them together is a completely bizarre ignorance and avoidance of well established historical fact. Catholicism is actually the first, *(widely recognized), religion (allegedly) based on the teachings of Christ, and therefore by any definition of standard is a "Christian" religion. As a point of interest, Jesus Christ was never a "Christian". He was a Jew, and "Christianity" didn't fully come to fruition until after his death. Not to mention that the Jews still have the common sense not to accept Christ as a "their Saviour". To them, he is simply another "prophet". or, "enlightened teacher", call it what you will
To be blunt, it sounds like you slept through and failed all your history courses, along with Sunday school as well.
All organized religions have sprung up, at least in part, to serve the earthly ulterior motivations of man. For example, Henry the VIII started the Church of England, because the pope refused to grant him an annulment or divorce for one of his many marriages.
While you're trying to, "wrap your head around all of that", try and researching "the Reformation", and "Martin Luther".
For two thousand years of blabbering about the rewards of heaven, the only thing provable fact that can be taken away from all that bullsh!t, is the fact we are a mammalian species, we are born live, we have lifespans of approximately 60 to 90 ;years, and then we die. We've managed to avoid the whole "dust to dust part" of the equation somewhat, with the discovery of formaldehyde as a biological preservative.
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Someone8MyPosts
Posts: 464 +146
Wow...a whole 20k out of 2.2 billion. I would have expected a much higher number.
Aux101
Posts: 81 +17
Why they never mock the Jewish religion?
After all, the owners are Jewish, so it would be appropriate to mock their own religion. It's very politically incorrect to mock other religions, before doing it to their own. Just to show it's not propaganda. Because if you mock all others, except yours, for basically the same things, then IT IS propaganda.
After all, the owners are Jewish, so it would be appropriate to mock their own religion. It's very politically incorrect to mock other religions, before doing it to their own. Just to show it's not propaganda. Because if you mock all others, except yours, for basically the same things, then IT IS propaganda.
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