Ryzen rumors: Zen 5 to use Alder Lake-style hybrid design, Zen 3+ canceled due to chip...

midian182

Posts: 6,768   +61
Staff member
Rumor mill: With AMD riding high on the back of another record-breaking quarter, the rumor mill has turned to the company's future Zen products. Zen 5 is of particular interest as team red could follow in Intel's footsteps by introducing a big.LITTLE architecture to its desktop CPUs. We've also heard that the chip shortage could result in Zen 3+'s cancelation.

Intel's Alder Lake chips, set to debut in the second half of this year, will bring the combination of larger high-performance cores and smaller high-efficiency cores to desktop x86 PCs. 2022's Raptor Lake, which also uses the LGA 1700 socket, will feature the same architecture.

According to MoePC, the Zen 5 Ryzen 8000 series CPUs will also have a hybrid design. The processors, codenamed Strix Point, will reportedly include at least one SKU with eight large Zen 5 cores made on TSMC's 3nm process and four unspecified smaller cores.

TSMC is currently on schedule for testing 3nm in 2021 and mass production in 2022, so it won't be untested when Zen 5 uses the process for its release in 2024. The semiconductor giant said 3nm offers 25% to 30% less power consumption, 10% to 15% more performance, and a 1.7x increase in transistor density compared to 5nm.

The article also repeats recent reports that AMD's Zen 3+ refresh, codenamed Warhol, has been canceled due to the nightmarish chip shortage crisis. Set to use TSMC's 6nm process, Zen 3+ has disappeared from some AMD roadmaps, so this could be more than just a rumor. The 5nm-based Zen 4, meanwhile, is expected to launch in late 2022 or early 2023.

Earlier this week, AMD reported another record quarter as its revenue jumped 93% to $3.45 billion.

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Irata

Posts: 1,431   +2,311
It would be interesting to see if AMD will indeed follow Arm‘s footsteps, as well, with their Zen 5 APU. For mobile this might make sense, for desktop imo not really.
 

Dimitriid

Posts: 520   +866
AMD must not be happy about having to scrap Zen3+ but honestly as a consumer, it doesn't matter much to me. I'd be nice, but worst case scenario intel might match but not surpass AMD in terms of performance and that's about it really.

Honestly it just means that people on Zen3 get to use it for longer and that's it.
 

madboyv1

Posts: 1,676   +587
It would be interesting to see if AMD will indeed follow Arm‘s footsteps, as well, with their Zen 5 APU. For mobile this might make sense, for desktop imo not really.
Considering that ARM is effectively non-existent in the desktop market, I think think the way Rob worded it is correct. However, a small clarification/aside that ARM was the progenitor of the architecture design would have been good as well.
 

Irata

Posts: 1,431   +2,311
Considering that ARM is effectively non-existent in the desktop market, I think think the way Rob worded it is correct. However, a small clarification/aside that ARM was the progenitor of the architecture design would have been good as well.
The rumor was about mobile APU where ARM is already present.

It‘s actually more present in the desktop space than the yet to be released Alder Lake CPU (Apple).
 

Puiu

Posts: 4,571   +3,388
TechSpot Elite
As long as AMD doesn't make the mistake of replacing high performance cores in favour of small cores for the mainstream desktop CPU it should be fine.
 

hahahanoobs

Posts: 3,344   +1,510
If this Zen 3+ rumour is true AMD is a mess.
You can't even buy half the stuff AMD launched in the last two years, and now this?
 

quadibloc

Posts: 279   +168
Well, indeed there is no point in announcing a new chip nobody can actually buy. However, I remember reading that the shortage is mainly caused by increased demand, not reduced supply.
Even so, with a shortage, people are taking whatever they can get, so there's little point for either Intel or AMD to try to offer a "better" chip than the competition.
 

wiyosaya

Posts: 5,902   +4,138
If this Zen 3+ rumour is true AMD is a mess.
You can't even buy half the stuff AMD launched in the last two years, and now this?
Honestly, I would rather have the tic of Zen4/5 rather than the toc of Zen3+

Though I am not currently planning a new build, if Zen3+ would put pressure on the already scarce supply chain, I can understand AMD's decision. Their customers are already not happy with the current supply chain shortages, why continue that pain with a Zen3+? Seems to me the shortages are generating negative buzz for AMD (and others), therefore, IMO, it would be unwise for them to open the floodgates to more negative buzz if customers were unable to get Zen3+ due to further supply chain issues.
 

Gimp65

Posts: 21   +30
"The 5nm-based Zen 4, meanwhile, is expected to launch in late 2022 or early 2023"
Must have been a typo.

Zen 4 is scheduled to launch late 2021 / early 2022.
 

Gimp65

Posts: 21   +30
I do not care in the least bit for garbage big.LITTLE. Full core or nothing.
You might end up with nothing then, or you could ofc buy the old stuff.

We dont really know how good the new hybrid design are yet, way to early to jump to any conclusions.
 

hahahanoobs

Posts: 3,344   +1,510
Honestly, I would rather have the tic of Zen4/5 rather than the toc of Zen3+

Though I am not currently planning a new build, if Zen3+ would put pressure on the already scarce supply chain, I can understand AMD's decision. Their customers are already not happy with the current supply chain shortages, why continue that pain with a Zen3+? Seems to me the shortages are generating negative buzz for AMD (and others), therefore, IMO, it would be unwise for them to open the floodgates to more negative buzz if customers were unable to get Zen3+ due to further supply chain issues.

Didn't sell:
Radeon 7
1600AF
3300X
4000 and 5000 series mobile

Selling:
Zen 2 and 3

But AMD will drop Zen 3+ because of supply issues? No.
 

Mr Majestyk

Posts: 720   +616
"The 5nm-based Zen 4, meanwhile, is expected to launch in late 2022 or early 2023"
Must have been a typo.

Zen 4 is scheduled to launch late 2021 / early 2022.

Huh! It was Zen3+ that was launching late 2021, not Zen 4, Zen 4 was never going to launch this year, so I think their timeline is correct, Zen 4 late next year. They can't bring it forward to fill Zen3+ shoes.
 

Puiu

Posts: 4,571   +3,388
TechSpot Elite
Huh! It was Zen3+ that was launching late 2021, not Zen 4, Zen 4 was never going to launch this year, so I think their timeline is correct, Zen 4 late next year. They can't bring it forward to fill Zen3+ shoes.
Zen 4 might launch sooner than expected (maybe june/july of 2022) if the scrap Zen3+
 

Irata

Posts: 1,431   +2,311
Zen 4 might launch sooner than expected (maybe june/july of 2022) if the scrap Zen3+
Or maybe Zen 3+ for desktop was never a thing but it is planned for the Rembrandt APU.

Would have been nice if there‘d been Zen 3+ for AM4 and 500 series chipsets as that would have made Zen 3 cheaper, but going to 6nm for mobile makes more sense, plus it saves AMD from the sh1t storm if Zen 3+ only works with 5xx chipsets, even though they explicitly said that Ryzen 5000 would be the last CPU for 400 series chipsets. At the time I wondered why they said that.
 

Gimp65

Posts: 21   +30
Huh! It was Zen3+ that was launching late 2021, not Zen 4, Zen 4 was never going to launch this year, so I think their timeline is correct, Zen 4 late next year. They can't bring it forward to fill Zen3+ shoes.
You could be right, but looking at the roadmap, it looks like Zen 4 is before 2022, correct ?
 

HardReset

Posts: 1,103   +681
"The 5nm-based Zen 4, meanwhile, is expected to launch in late 2022 or early 2023"
Must have been a typo.

Zen 4 is scheduled to launch late 2021 / early 2022.
Exactly. AMD won't give Intel too much advantage with DDR5 support. Zen3+ or Zen4, DDR5 support should come late this year or early next year. TSMC will also increase 5nm production later this year and since AMD is TSMC's second largest customer and Zen4 is expected to be 5nm part... You can figure out rest. That's why articles "Zen4 is expected to launch late 2022" makes no absolutely no sense.

Zen3 launched 16 months after Zen2 and same "16 months" would mean somewhere around March/April 2022 for Zen4. DDR5 support is of course something that will be major change.
 

Irata

Posts: 1,431   +2,311
Exactly. AMD won't give Intel too much advantage with DDR5 support. Zen3+ or Zen4, DDR5 support should come late this year or early next year. TSMC will also increase 5nm production later this year and since AMD is TSMC's second largest customer and Zen4 is expected to be 5nm part... You can figure out rest. That's why articles "Zen4 is expected to launch late 2022" makes no absolutely no sense.

Zen3 launched 16 months after Zen2 and same "16 months" would mean somewhere around March/April 2022 for Zen4. DDR5 support is of course something that will be major change.
At the same time, I hope they keep Zen 3 on 7nm and AM4 as a budget solution around. Would be great if I could get a similarly sweet deal as on my 2700X a little over a year ago.

Now, I don‘t count on a 5800x being available for €150, but even 300 would be fine.
 

HardReset

Posts: 1,103   +681
At the same time, I hope they keep Zen 3 on 7nm and AM4 as a budget solution around. Would be great if I could get a similarly sweet deal as on my 2700X a little over a year ago.

Now, I don‘t count on a 5800x being available for €150, but even 300 would be fine.
Why not? There will be some 5nm shortage and 7nm is more than good enough vs older ones (12/14nm) for cheap GPU's and such. Also Zen3 Epycs will sell for long time. Seeing Zen2 is still available, Zen3 will not disappear soon.
 

Irata

Posts: 1,431   +2,311
Why not? There will be some 5nm shortage and 7nm is more than good enough vs older ones (12/14nm) for cheap GPU's and such. Also Zen3 Epycs will sell for long time. Seeing Zen2 is still available, Zen3 will not disappear soon.
That‘s what I‘m hoping for. 3700X is €259, 3800X €299, so anything around that price range for a 5800X in a year would be nice.