So you only have PCI slots and want to game?

[Tha General]

After thinking about this more. I am just going to keep the 2400 Pro, because even tho not the best PCI card, it gets the job done with my games. But i have decided to try to get the 8500 GT. If i cant get it, i won't worry about it and whatever games which i cant play good on this computer , i will just look forward to playing on my new computer, my secondary computer. Because this computer is my main computer.

Peace

 

[jives11]

I may try to dabble with jives11's tips on increasing the framerate. I don't have A+ certification, at least not yet but squeezing the most out of my system definitely appeals to me.

Well I managed 142 FPS averaged over 5 minutes with ATI tool on my dell dimension P4 2.6Ghz + 1Gb + 8500GT, so your mileage may vary

 

[TL93]

I'm still in the debate for a PCI Card!!!

These are my computer specs

HP Pavillion a1224n
Intel P4 519K [521] 3.06 Ghz LGA775
1024MB DDR2 Dual Channel Memory
200GB HDD SATA II
ATi Radeon 9250 256MB PCI / Intel 910GL Chipset
PCI Slot Only, PCI-e not soldered on this board, soldered on sister board though =(

This is what i've toned the list down to.

- Diamond Stealth X1550 PRO 256MB PCI [I can get one at NCIX since i'm in Canada]
- Diamond Stealth HD2400 PRO 256MB PCI [NCIX also]
- Visiontek HD2400 PRO 256MB PCI [Tigerdirect Canada]

Which one?!?!?!

Also, people with the HD2400 PRO or the X1550 PRO, please post what you get in ATiTool [FPS - non OC vs OC if you have it OC'd, take screenshtos so i can actually believe it and show it to my friend who doesn't believe PCI has the power]

Also will these run Test Drive Unlimited on Low-Medium Settings decently or at least playable frames? [it Runs Crysis okay on Medium from a Youtube Video, averages 20-25 FPS with it all medium except Textures High and Shadows Low]

Well i'll still fetch either of these PCI Cards so i can at least run some fun games =D

Thanks in advance,
Tim

 

[Tha General]

Time, welcome

The Visiontek 2400 version has a fan on it, which is a plus to me. I have one and its pretty good and powerful. But keep in mind, i am using a intel 810, PIII 600MHZ.
Your computer is more powerful, so you buying a 2400 HD pro might run games better.

Some of the newer games which i can run are crysis, but at pretty terrible speed. I get like 9-15fps. Which is fine, but as soon as i fight the enemies, i get 6fps. Timeshift i can play with ease, i get around 19-29fps on my computer. If i was you, i will buy the 2400 card, which version between the diamond or Visiontek, well i will go with the diamond version, despite not having a fan, diamond products are always the best in my opinion.

About Test Drive, i just bought the game a couple days ago, and i will let you know how it runs in a few days on this computer.

 

[TL93]

Yay!

Finally, someone with experience with a PCI card and Test Drive Unlimited!!!!

Tha General, when you try Test Drive, take a vid of it.

Also what FPS do you get in ATI Tool?

Thanks

 

[TechnoFill]

I'm still in the debate for a PCI Card!!!

These are my computer specs

HP Pavillion a1224n
Intel P4 519K [521] 3.06 Ghz LGA775
1024MB DDR2 Dual Channel Memory
200GB HDD SATA II
ATi Radeon 9250 256MB PCI / Intel 910GL Chipset
PCI Slot Only, PCI-e not soldered on this board, soldered on sister board though =(

This is what i've toned the list down to.

- Diamond Stealth X1550 PRO 256MB PCI [I can get one at NCIX since i'm in Canada]
- Diamond Stealth HD2400 PRO 256MB PCI [NCIX also]
- Visiontek HD2400 PRO 256MB PCI [Tigerdirect Canada]

Which one?!?!?!

Also, people with the HD2400 PRO or the X1550 PRO, please post what you get in ATiTool [FPS - non OC vs OC if you have it OC'd, take screenshtos so i can actually believe it and show it to my friend who doesn't believe PCI has the power]

Also will these run Test Drive Unlimited on Low-Medium Settings decently or at least playable frames? [it Runs Crysis okay on Medium from a Youtube Video, averages 20-25 FPS with it all medium except Textures High and Shadows Low]

Well i'll still fetch either of these PCI Cards so i can at least run some fun games =D

Thanks in advance,
Tim

Hi TL93,
I think the X1550pro (128 bits version) is the best one (2400pro is a only 64 bits bandwitch) made by ATI.
But the best of all is the 8500Gt, so why not the Nvidia?

 

[TL93]

But the best of all is the 8500Gt, so why not the Nvidia?

I'm in Canada,

They don't sell the 8500 GT or 7300 GT here in Canada [Just like the US]

Of course i'd get the 8500 GT out of all of them but i just don't wanna dump all my cash just to wait for the thing to ship and arrive!

The Diamond X1550 PRO i can purchase just with a 10-15 minute drive!

Do you know the frames that the X1550 PRO or the HD 2400 PRO will get in ATI Tool?

I really need to know which one to buy before it comes back into stock because once it does, its usualy sold out within 5 days =/

Thanks,
Tim

 

[teklord]

I'm in Canada,

They don't sell the 8500 GT or 7300 GT here in Canada [Just like the US]

Of course i'd get the 8500 GT out of all of them but i just don't wanna dump all my cash just to wait for the thing to ship and arrive!

The Diamond X1550 PRO i can purchase just with a 10-15 minute drive!

Do you know the frames that the X1550 PRO or the HD 2400 PRO will get in ATI Tool?

I really need to know which one to buy before it comes back into stock because once it does, its usualy sold out within 5 days =/

Thanks,
Tim

These people are a mail order business I found with Google shopping and they are located in Canada, so the turnaround time for your order may be less.

http://www.printsavings.com/Item.aspx?sku=02662370OP&sgd=330d316d315d319d318

They are currently sold out, but I think it would be worth the wait if they did have this in stock, because with the limitations of the PCI bus interface, anything less is severely limiting with today's games. Diamond Stealth x1550 is what I would get if you can't see yourself getting the 8500 GT.

I got my 8500 GT from a link in this thread from a seller on eBay named Advanced Data Systems in the UK. Took two weeks to arrive, but it was well worth the wait and if the x1550 is sold out were you live regardless, you might look into the UK eBay seller.

I get similar FPS ratings in ATi Tool as what jives11 is and my system isn't quite as tweaked as his is. Best of luck in your video card quest.

 

[teklord]

Well I managed 142 FPS averaged over 5 minutes with ATI tool on my dell dimension P4 2.6Ghz + 1Gb + 8500GT, so your mileage may vary

My system is very similar to yours jives11. I'm basically trying to squeeze all I can out of this one until I build my own PC, I'm picking out the parts I want for that now. OC'ing the CPU, Mem, & 8500 GT will make a difference and stretch this system a little farther, but I won't do that until I upgrade my PSU and internal cooling methods.

 

[TL93]

Teklord - but your processor is a Intel Celeron compared to Jives11's Pentium 4.

Anyways i'm still puzzled between the X1550 PRO and the HD 2400 PRO.

Tha General, you play Test Drive Unlimited on your PC yet? How did it run with your specs?

BTW, should i get a new Power Supply Unit?

Mine is currently a HP type brand 200 Watt Power Supply Unit =(

Curse you HP!

 

[teklord]

Teklord - but your processor is a Intel Celeron compared to Jives11's Pentium 4.

Anyways i'm still puzzled between the X1550 PRO and the HD 2400 PRO.

Tha General, you play Test Drive Unlimited on your PC yet? How did it run with your specs?

BTW, should i get a new Power Supply Unit?

Mine is currently a HP type brand 200 Watt Power Supply Unit =(

Curse you HP!

I said it was similar not precisely the same, and my processor has a higher clock speed. His may be hyper threaded or something to make it faster than mine, despite the lower GHz rating. Besides that, I don't see what that has to do with much of anything.

I don't own either a x1550 Pro or a 2400 Pro, so I can't comment on the performance of either card, but I can recommend the x1550 Diamond Stealth model over all the rest, per it's 128-bit bus interface.

I do recommend upgrading your PSU if you want to seriously overclock whatever you get. With the 133mb/sec limitation of the PCI bus, you'll want to squeeze every last FPS out of your card that you can.

 

[TL93]

Teklord, what do you think the performence is like from the X1550 PRO compared to the 8500 GT?

 

[teklord]

Teklord, what do you think the performence is like from the X1550 PRO compared to the 8500 GT?

I don't think there is a x1550 PRO, but you can go to this link 8500 GT PCI vs. x1550 PCI for a comparison. These cards are nothing compared to the same price PCI-express cards, but for playing older games, the 8500 GT definitely has the edge and you will notice a difference.

I mine from this link Advanced Data Systems on eBay for about $150 with shipping and VAT removed, make sure you request that VAT be removed if you order from overseas as it does not apply to Americans.

My computer is old and I thought taking the mobo out and replacing it might cause problems for the other components so I went with the 8500 GT for now. I really love to play Jedi Academy MP which has relatively low requirements, so this should suffice for that until I build my rig.

If you are willing to wait 2 weeks and pay $150 dollars, go for the 8500 GT, I can recommend no less for the antiquated PCI bus interface.

 

[Tha General]

No, the game requires about 7 GB of hard drive space and right now i am cleaning out my hd, about to install a 120gb hd in a few days, so i will test it out as soon as i can.

Btw, a good PSU is always good. I am still using a 90Watts PSU and it still works perfecly, still blows out very cool air I have been using this PSU since 2002. But see Gateway products are always the best in my opinion, their stuff seems to last forever

 

[Tha General]

Hey everyone, Maybe 11 and the 12 i am flying out to maryland to go to the computer show, and i might be able to get my hands on the 8500 GT or 7300 GT Geforce card. If they have it, or if they don't, they can special order the item in for me

Cross your friends. And btw, i think soon or later, the 8500 Or 7300 card might be out in the United States, but by then i won't need it, because soon i am buying a super computer , a secondary one with PCI-E slots. So the 2400 card is the last card that i will buy for this computer if i can find the 8500 GT.

peace

 

[TL93]

Tha General...

Well did you run TDU yet?

Did you run ATI Tool yet? [And what FPS did you get for the render]

Thanks,
Tim

 

[Tha General]

No, because i haven't fix my hard drive yet. I will install the game on my external hd tomorrow, and let you know how it runs. And about ati tray tools, i will do that soon and let you know also tomorrow, late tomorrow alright.

But i did do something that made me get more fps in games, a big performance. I install the Diamond Stealth 8.3 Beta Drivers from their site on my Visiontek 2400 hd pro card, works perfectly.

So if you do get the Diamond Stealth 2400 hd pro version, make sure you download those drivers. Diamond Stealth Drivers are always the best

 

[jives11]

I was fixing another PC (HP) and I tried using driver detective which is one of those tools which shows you which drivers are out of date then offers to sell them to you. I ran it on my PCI 8500GT machine and it found 4 drivers out of date. One was the nVidia driver which is easy to fix, but I was intrigued that it also reported

Intel 82801 PCI bridge 244E out of date
fyi also

Intel 82801DV ULTRA ATA storage controller 24CB

I mention this as the 8500 and I *think* some of the ATi cards use a PCI bridge.

Intel's website is quite confusing, I assumed it would be easy to download these but it's actually not. Can anyone suggest an 'official' location to download these updated drivers from ?

 

[Tha General]

Hey TL93, the game loads up, but the framerate is terrible. The sound cuts out, and the game drags big time, i'm getting lik 2-4 fps lolz. The game is just too powerful.
But see i don't think it has anything to do with my video card, if you look at my specs:

WindowsXP Home Edition SP2, Intel® Pentium III, 600MHZ, Sound Blaster Audigy SE Sound Card PCI card, 80GB Western Digital Internal HD, 500GB My Book Edition External HD, 512Megs of Ram, 90(Watts) PSU, Visiontek ATI Radeon 2400 HD Pro Edition 256MB DDR2 PCI edition

and the system requirements for the game:

CPU : Intel P4 @ 2.4 GHz or AMD Athlon 2800+. GPU (Video Cards) : ATI Radeon 9800 256MB VRAM or Nvidia 6600 GT with 256 MB of VRAM. Video Cards with vertex/pixel shaders 2.x and above are recommended. SPU (Sound Cards) : DirectX 9.0 compatible Sound Card. System Memory : 512 MB, 1 GB recommended Hard Disk free space: 8 GB DVD drive: 8x minimum DirectX 9.0C (included)

I think the 2400 HD PRO PCI card can run the game, but i'm using a PIII 600MHZ with only 512megs of Ram. Maybe if someone had a more powerful CPU, then i'm pretty sure it will run ok. But i cant run it.

 

[Tha General]

Just got this message from the visiontek crew about more PCI cards:

" As far as I know, PCI version of video cards are still in the thoughts of our Product Engineers. I'm just not sure if we have any PCI version for the HD3000 series as of right now. We'll definitely post info once we have them. "

So who knows, we might see more PCI cards. I wouldn't mind keep buying pci cards , even when i buy my secondary computer. My secondary computer will be meant for the newer games anyway.

 

[teklord]

When I build my own PC with PCI-express 2.0 slots, I'm never looking back to PCI, unless I use it for sound or something. PCI-e slots are like 33 times faster than PCI. I can't do a mobo swap because I would have to reload Windows and I can't do that because it is stored on my factory hard disk, tucked away in a partition. Getting the 8500 GT was my best option for now and I don't regret it as a temporary solution.

BTW General, the 7300 was never released by Sparkle for PCI bus, so it's 8500 or nothing. If you really want the 8500 GT as a stop gap solution, just order it off the link in my post and save yourself a trip to the computer show. Make sure you request extra shipping shock absorption, because my 8500 GT barely had any and there are hashmarks in some of my Windows screens where I can see through the image to the one underneath. I believe this a result of the card taking some knocks en route.

Get PCI-e 2.0 General as opposed to regular PCI-express because 2.0 is two times faster over standard PCI-e slots and is the bleeding edge in video card technology. If TDU came out recently, there is no way I see that ever working on a system with PCI slots. HL2/Oblivion is the best you can hope for realistically with a PCI card, and only then with an 8500 GT and your system tweeked out to the max with maximum RAM allowable along with RAM, GPU and CPU OC'ed. That is unless you are content to play a slideshow and I've played my share of those with my onboard graphics.

Jives11, I downloaded some drivers from the Intel site for my Integrated Graphics on my mobo. Not sure what chipset that refers to, but perhaps if you download the graphics drivers for your mobo, that will be sufficient.

 

[TL93]

Teklord - If i were just replacing my components in my PC, i'd just go for the whole overhaul except the little things like the Accessories [DVD, Card Reader], Case and Hard Drive [200 GB SATAII is already good] since it would save me at least $250+ on a build.

That means i'd have to get a mATX motherboard which means if i want PCI-e 2.0, i'd have to turn to AMD with their new 790G Chipset [or something like that with onboard HD 3200]

Anyways, i'm just still in the middle of decision, not that i'm in a rush but if it comes to a overhaul, i'll just wait till the New year comes by =D

 

[teklord]

Teklord - If i were just replacing my components in my PC, i'd just go for the whole overhaul except the little things like the Accessories [DVD, Card Reader], Case and Hard Drive [200 GB SATAII is already good] since it would save me at least $250+ on a build.

That means i'd have to get a mATX motherboard which means if i want PCI-e 2.0, i'd have to turn to AMD with their new 790G Chipset [or something like that with onboard HD 3200]

Anyways, i'm just still in the middle of decision, not that i'm in a rush but if it comes to a overhaul, i'll just wait till the New year comes by =D

My post stated that a new mobo isn't feasible as I would need to re-install Windows and I can't do that because I would need to back it up on some media like CD or DVD or flash drive and I don't have a burner. I have to back it up because my copy of Windows is on my hard disk partition and there was no copy of Windows XP in physical form with my PC when bought. I think it is tucked away on a partition of my hard drive that is really hard to access, so mobo swap is looking tough right now. Plus something could go wrong with the reinstall and that would not be cool.

There are a lot of components I want to replace on my PC, practically the whole thing, so a brand new build from scratch is my goal one day. 8500 GT PCI is tiding me over in the GPU department until I can get the funds together for my economically based dream machine (sub $1000). Best of luck with your overhaul though as it is always exciting to upgrade the performance of one's PC.

 

[jives11]

a lesson well learned

Well I decided to see if upgrading any of the chipset drivers would improve my FPS. My dell uses the Intel 845G chipset and you can download a tool from the intel website which identifies which chipset you use.

the Intel download site is rather confusing and does not really have things called drivers, just .INF files which seem to tell XP how to configure drivers. Anyhow after downloading and running a number of things, all I managed to achieve was a 10% reduction in performance via either ATItool (FPS) or 3dmark03. I also tried the Intel Application AccelerIn the end I used the XP recover facility to time travel back to a few days ago before I started down this route. I couldn't see what I'd done wrong, but the Chipset drivers I started with seemed to give the best performance. It might be worth going down this route but enable system restore first

 

[teklord]

Well I decided to see if upgrading any of the chipset drivers would improve my FPS. My dell uses the Intel 845G chipset and you can download a tool from the intel website which identifies which chipset you use.

the Intel download site is rather confusing and does not really have things called drivers, just .INF files which seem to tell XP how to configure drivers. Anyhow after downloading and running a number of things, all I managed to achieve was a 10% reduction in performance via either ATItool (FPS) or 3dmark03. I also tried the Intel Application AccelerIn the end I used the XP recover facility to time travel back to a few days ago before I started down this route. I couldn't see what I'd done wrong, but the Chipset drivers I started with seemed to give the best performance. It might be worth going down this route but enable system restore first

I noticed ATi Tool tends to be finicky and doesn't always have the same FPS results for the exact same settings on the exact same card, possibly due to temperature variances or other programs running in the background. So this means that it may not have been the updated files you got off the Intel site. IMO, you should reboot or turn off your system and let your video card cool off and try ATi Tool again for a 100% accurate comparison. This will probably not change much, but it will eliminate the possibility of other factors mitigating ATi Tool test results.

On another note, I am happy to report a dramatic increase in game performance with my 8500 GT over onboard. I went back and tried some games I played with my Intel Integrated Graphics in the past, and they ran incredibly well and I don't even have my sound card I ordered yet. I could barely run Half Life 1 on my machine in the past, but thanks to memory and video card upgrades, it runs perfectly with no stutter @ approximately 60 FPS I would guess. This may be underwhelming to some of you, but to me it is a significant leap forward and a good sign of future improvement.

I OC'ed my 8500 GT to 545 core clock - 900 Memory clock speeds over 459/800 factory settings, in ATi Tool. I noticed a huge improvement in performance in Star Wars Galaxies. Have to be conscious of temperature levels however as I have no internal cooling system apart from the fan or two that came with the system that is in there and the massive heat sink on the 8500 GT itself. I set the 8500 GT back to factory settings once I am done with my game session. Nice to see that PCI slots are not completely useless as many would have you believe and can run older games competently and efficiently. :approve: