So you only have PCI slots and want to game?

[kimsland]

Tha General, do you see my pic I posted just up there ^^ in my reply to you?

In my reply I have reduced the size of the pic,(to an easier to read post) then, if you click on the pic, it will take you to the maximized pic (which is huge, just like your pics)

I feel that your huge pics, and then quoting including these huge pics, really is not helpful to actually read your posts clearly

Certainly this thread is ideal for TechSpot, and your technical expertise highly sought and appreciated. But can't you stop posting these huge pics? Here's why:
1. They slow down the opening and viewing of this thread
2. They are actually unnecessary, you can even quote just the link, and not even have a pic
3. It's difficult to read your support, especially when you quote and include the pics!
4. It is unnecessarily increasing the size of this thread
5. It causes slowdowns of the Server they are coming from (pretty sure that's not good)
6. They seem to be ads, and not support at all (ie spam)

I have PMd Julio about this too, so you may want to ask him if it's ok or not (ideally he'll inform you) I just feel this thread is extremely helpful, but viewers must continually move past the pics to the actual replies.

Possibly you do not know how to reduce the size of pics, or you do not have time to.
In that case, just post the link. Or I can show you how, as I did in my post above
Anyway, that's all. Thanks for your help here, I have linked many users with issues pertaining to this issue, to this thread

 

[Tha General]

um alright, i will just use image shack and post a thumbnail photo. So people can click on the images. Sorry about that.

 

[teklord]

Thanks for the update General, excellent find as usual. Probably better to post thumbnails or links for the pics like the other person suggested for the 56k people. If you know where to get the 9500GT let us know as well. I know the 9500GT PCI-e 2.0 version is almost identical to the 8500GT PCI-e version, so hopefully these specs are accurate.

This proves my strong belief that there is a real niche market for PCI cards but most people shun them because of the inferior bandwidth but there are so many people stuck with PCI that it should be catered to I believe.

 

[Tha General]

Thanks for the update General, excellent find as usual. Probably better to post thumbnails or links for the pics like the other person suggested for the 56k people. If you know where to get the 9500GT let us know as well. I know the 9500GT PCI-e 2.0 version is almost identical to the 8500GT PCI-e version, so hopefully these specs are accurate.

Ya i think its going to be a while before we seem them over at newegg and elsewhere. Sparkle does a better job with releasing their cards in the united states , then the albatron company. I only know of one place to in the united states to get the albatron cards tho. I recently switch to windows 2000 now, so i am going to buy the BFG 8400GS 512MB for this system, and for my secondary rig , buy the albatron 8500gt or 8600gt. if i can get my hands on one of them.

This proves my strong belief that there is a real niche market for PCI cards but most people shun them because of the inferior bandwidth but there are so many people stuck with PCI that it should be catered to I believe.

Well you know those albatron cards where ever they was sold are selling very good. PCI cards are still selling very good around the world, which is nice. Now about the inferior bandwidth, i honestly do not buy that. I recently switch to w2k as i said, and with my system specs, the BFG OC 6200 PCI card works almost perfectly. I can Max out Doom 3 at Ultra Settings and get 30fps. COD4, at 1280x1024 high settings, NO aa, i get around 16-27fps. Which is pretty good and smooth to me.

PCI cards are very good, even better if you are using a high end system. Also, pci cards to me, give out silver performance. Which is pretty good and decent if you ask me. Alot of people do not like PCI cards, only because they are old, thats all.
I enjoy them and i plan to keep using them, even for my secondary rig when i buy it.

 

[Tha General]

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814139037

Newegg finally added that 1GB 2XGPU 6200 PCI card. You know i would buy this if the price was at 59.99 and if it didn't require a power connector.

 

[electromagnetic]

And your point it? I never said they were out, just passing on the news. My guess sparkle will add them to their list soon and release them at a later time.


Does the card shake? I wouldn't know. My 6200 i never check, unless i have my tower open, but my tower is always close up.


I am pretty sure you can play L4D using the 6200 cards. So the 8400gs or 8500 shouldn't be a problem with the game.

Also if you have a pci express x1 slot this one is good 64bit though

http://www.sparkle.com.tw/News/SP-8400GS_PCIEX1/news_SP8400GS_PCIex1_EN.html

http://www.sparkle.com.tw/News/SP-8400GS_PCIEX1/news_84_1X.jpg[/IMG]

Are you thinking about buying a pcie express 1 8400GS?
And also to answer your question, after using the 6200 for over 2 years, which has a 64bit bus, there is nothing wrong with having 64bit. Plays games just fine, with really no loss of performance.

yes i might but I need to know if it would be better than my Pny 6200 nvidia card.

 

[Tha General]

I am hearing people have problems with WOW with the 8400gs series. But besides that, i think all of the 8400GS series are pretty good. But you know, try to get the 8500GT if you can. Whats your price range or like to shop?

The 8400GS and 8500GT cards are sold at alot of places.

http://www.geeks.com/details.asp?In...003677&zmas=15&zmac=159&zmap=SF-PC85GT256U2-P

89 dollars here. If you want cheap, just grab one of the 8400GS cards.

Also be warned, the main reason why the 8400gs PNY Version did not work with me, the card is huge, so make sure you have a pretty big tower, the card is not made for small towers. Also make sure you PSU is over 300watts. Your computer can handle it i see.

 

[trajche]

I have a problem....I want to play NFS Carbon, but my ATI Radeon X300/X550/X1050 video card has only 128mb.....is there any way to share more video ram on my graphic card. I looked in BIOS and i i didn't find much. I don't have a laptop. I can't set MOTION BLUR probably because i don't have enough vram...............Can someone help me please???

 

[Tha General]

I have a problem....I want to play NFS Carbon, but my ATI Radeon X300/X550/X1050 video card has only 128mb.....is there any way to share more video ram on my graphic card. I looked in BIOS and i i didn't find much. I don't have a laptop. I can't set MOTION BLUR probably because i don't have enough vram...............Can someone help me please???

Wait what, is this a pci problem? i think you posted your question in the wrong section of the forum.

 

[TechProbie]

What card are you thinking about buying?

Sorry it has taken so long to respond, I was considering the 8500GT. The price is pretty good for the performance, and I had no luck what so ever finding Albatron's 8600 in the states. I'm steering away from the 8400gs because of the problems it is having on WoW. I know most places on line are sold out of the 8500, but I was planning on picking it up after Christmas anyway.

 

[PCIGamer]

no love for the 8400gs

Hi there,

i think the 8400gs is very unfairly bashed on this board. Sure its slower than the 8500GT. Its a great card and if you look around hard enough you can find it real cheap. NewEgg is NOT the cheapest place to buy them from.

for example. Microcenter sell them for $29.99 (39.99 + 10 MIB). Thats a bargain for a series 8 PCI card with 512MB. You are gonna be paying another 50-60 dollars for the 8500GT.

Appaerently i cant post links yet but search for 8400gs on Microcenter.com and you will find it

very very happy with the card and the price i paid for it

 

[Rage_3K_Moiz]

How is the 8400GS unfairly bashed? It is a low-end card and is very suitable for HTPCs where gaming performance is not a concern. It is hardly a recommendable card for anything else.

 

[svpauhana]

pci and agp card slots

my dimension 4600i has 3 pci and 1 agp slot. i'm new so i thought a pci video card would be better than an agp. now it looks like i can get an agp card to boost video over that of the motherboard one. any suggestions on a sensible agp card. i would hope it could support Vista VERO as well as some gaming. see my profile re my computer specs. thanks & i hope i've done this right

 

[Rage_3K_Moiz]

You have posted in the wrong thread mate. Post in the video card questions sticky in the Audio\Video sub-forums.

 

[Lkr]

Hey guys, I know absolutely NOTHING about PCI video cards. I have a PCI express slot myself, and I don't worry about finding cards. So anyway, my brother has a Dell Dimension 3000 that used to be mine. It has PCI only, and he is currently using a FX5500 with 256mb and a 128bit bus. What is the best upgrade he could do for the video card? I have heard about the 8500gt, but cannot find it on newegg. I can find the 8400 however. How are they in comparison to the fx5500?

 

[Tha General]

It has PCI only, and he is currently using a FX5500 with 256mb and a 128bit bus. What is the best upgrade he could do for the video card?

Mind telling his whole specs?

I have heard about the 8500gt, but cannot find it on newegg. I can find the 8400 however. How are they in comparison to the fx5500?

The 8500GT is 100 bucks at tigerdirect.

Now about the 8400GS, vs the FX5500. The 8400GS is better, but i heard a few folks playing wow and got worse performance compared to the FX5500. So i need to see your brother's full specs. Because some folks who are using the 8400GS PCI, is not having any trouble.

 

[Lkr]

Mind telling his whole specs?



The 8500GT is 100 bucks at tigerdirect.

Now about the 8400GS, vs the FX5500. The 8400GS is better, but i heard a few folks playing wow and got worse performance compared to the FX5500. So i need to see your brother's full specs. Because some folks who are using the 8400GS PCI, is not having any trouble.

The specs are:
Pentium 4 3.0GHz with HT
1gb ddr 400(pc3200)

He does not play WoW, but if the 8500gt is a lot better than the 8400gs, I would rather get that. He plays Valve games and some Battlefield 2/2142. Both run on the lowest settings on his PC, but I cringe at how stable it runs. Could he bump up the settings with the 8500gt?

 

[Tha General]

I would say buy the 8500GT. However, if he wants a cheaper card, buy one of the 8400GS cards and do some testing and if does not work out, take it back and buy the 8500GT. But if he has 100 dollars to spare, i say go for it.
The 8500GT i only hear good feedback from it. You said bump up, as in overclocking, well i wouldn't know. I don't like overclocking cards anymore, i just keep it at stock and it plays games just fine.

I am using a 6200 OC BFG , pretty good card. I plan to upgrade to the BFG version of the 8400GS.

There is also a 8600GT, a 9400GT, and 9500GT PCI, but they are not sold in the united states yet.

 

[Lkr]

is there a site to import a 9500GT? And by bump up, I mean put the settings higher than Low.

 

[Tha General]

is there a site to import a 9500GT?

I doubt it, i haven't found any sites which has the cards for sell overseas or over here in the united states yet.

http://www.sparkle.com.tw/News/SP9495_LP_PCI/news_SP9400GT9500GT_PCI_LP_EN.html

http://www.sparkle.com.tw/index.asp

Website link , but again those cards just came out.

And by bump up, I mean put the settings higher than Low.

Well his computer is good, so the 8500GT might be his best shot. And you can pretty much max out games at high settings and get decent performance.

Tigerdirect has the 8400gs series and the 8500GT

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=4104561&CatId=1603
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=4104560&CatId=1603

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=3422142&CatId=1603

or newegg also .

 

[direwolf007]

Well his computer is good, so the 8500GT might be his best shot. And you can pretty much max out games at high settings and get decent performance.

What modern games (late 2007 and newer) can you max out on a 8500GT on the PCI-E bus at a respectable resolution (1280x1024 and above) ? Barely anything, if anything at all. With the limitation of the PCI bus, it is even less likely. The difference between the 8500GT PCI and the 8400GS PCI is not quite worth twice the price, since it is far less than 100% performance difference (around 20-25% in reality).

 

[jives11]

Hey guys, I know absolutely NOTHING about PCI video cards. I have a PCI express slot myself, and I don't worry about finding cards. So anyway, my brother has a Dell Dimension 3000 that used to be mine. It has PCI only, and he is currently using a FX5500 with 256mb and a 128bit bus. What is the best upgrade he could do for the video card? I have heard about the 8500gt, but cannot find it on newegg. I can find the 8400 however. How are they in comparison to the fx5500?

I too vote for the PCI 8500GT though I have tried quite a few. Check out the link in my signature, I have tweaked a Dimension 2350 which I think is very similar to the 3000

 

[Tha General]

What modern games (late 2007 and newer) can you max out on a 8500GT on the PCI-E bus at a respectable resolution (1280x1024 and above) ? Barely anything, if anything at all. With the limitation of the PCI bus, it is even less likely.

These are benchmarks using my wonderful BFG OC 6200 256MB DDR2 64bit PCI card, i also did some benchmarks using the 2400HD and 8400GS when i had XP using them. Note: I am using 90watts and a Intel Pentium III/600MHZ/800MB, and with the 6200 card i use the 81.98 drivers.
On my rig i can play games from the past, to late 2008, yes this year.

Doom III Ultra Settings AAX2 = 20-40fps
Quake 4 High Settings, AAX2 = 30-45fps
Prey Max Settings no AA = 30-60fps
Jericho Shader & Texture on High, 1024X768 = 15-26fps.
Fear Max Settings AAX2 = 29-60fps
Fear Extraction Point AAX2 = 20-55fps
F.E.A.R.: Perseus Mandate = Max Settings AAX4( Yes i put it on X4, just pushing my computer or 6200 = 24-65fps.
Crysis = 1024x768 , everything to low to medium = 10-25fps.
Code of honor 2 ( aug 2008 game ) Max Settings, AAX2 , 25-40fps.
COD4 - 1024x768, 1280x1024 normal to high settings, NO AA, 16-30fps.

.................................................. ...

Intel Penitum III/600mhz using When i was using XP home editon/Visiontek2400HD
, and 8400GS PCI PNY

Crysis tested with 8400GS PCI = 1280x1024 AAX2, low settings, but texture & shader on medium 20-30fps
Stranglehold ( Visiontek2400HD ) = 1280x1024 = 17-26fps max.
Timeshift (Visiontek2400HD ) 1024x768 low to best settings, HDR enable also = 29-50fps.

Limitation of the PCI bus? I disagree. They may not be as powerful as AGP or PCIE, but they get the job at decent settigns.

 

[direwolf007]

These are benchmarks using my wonderful BFG OC 6200 256MB DDR2 64bit PCI card, i also did some benchmarks using the 2400HD and 8400GS when i had XP using them. Note: I am using 90watts and a Intel Pentium III/600MHZ/800MB, and with the 6200 card i use the 81.98 drivers.
On my rig i can play games from the past, to late 2008, yes this year.

Doom III Ultra Settings AAX2 = 20-40fps
Quake 4 High Settings, AAX2 = 30-45fps
Prey Max Settings no AA = 30-60fps
Jericho Shader & Texture on High, 1024X768 = 15-26fps.
Fear Max Settings AAX2 = 29-60fps
Fear Extraction Point AAX2 = 20-55fps
F.E.A.R.: Perseus Mandate = Max Settings AAX4( Yes i put it on X4, just pushing my computer or 6200 = 24-65fps.
Crysis = 1024x768 , everything to low to medium = 10-25fps.
Code of honor 2 ( aug 2008 game ) Max Settings, AAX2 , 25-40fps.
COD4 - 1024x768, 1280x1024 normal to high settings, NO AA, 16-30fps.

.................................................. ...

Intel Penitum III/600mhz using When i was using XP home editon/Visiontek2400HD
, and 8400GS PCI PNY

Crysis tested with 8400GS PCI = 1280x1024 AAX2, low settings, but texture & shader on medium 20-30fps
Stranglehold ( Visiontek2400HD ) = 1280x1024 = 17-26fps max.
Timeshift (Visiontek2400HD ) 1024x768 low to best settings, HDR enable also = 29-50fps.

Limitation of the PCI bus? I disagree. They may not be as powerful as AGP or PCIE, but they get the job at decent settigns.

As I said - None of the modern (end of 2007 and beyond) games, with the exception of CoH2, are playable (Capable of getting a stable 25+ FPS on average) according to the information you just provided.

BTW, I call B.S on your Crysis results (And your CoD4 results). The VIA C7-D is more powerful than your P-III, and together with a massively overclocked Sparkle 8500GT 256MB DDR2 it is not capable of presenting anything near playable performance in Crysis, with an average of 16FPS in the early game and 6FPS in the tank battle "Onslaught" mission - and this is at 640X480 or 800X600. on the bare minimum of settings. In CoD4, the Cargo Ship mission (first in the game) has a max FPS of 24, and an average FPS of 11 (At 640X480, 800X600 or 1024X768 - Obvious CPU bottleneck).

I do not know how your came to those numbers - but they aren't even remotely correct. You are misleading plenty of people with those numbers, the reason for which I cannot comprehend.

Further reading, same benchmarks I showed you when I built that mini-rig in my sig:
Here

Addendum:
If you follow this link you will come across the performance of the 8500GT, coupled with a modern dual core CPU, on the PCI-E interconnect, in a multitude of titles. Crysis on High settings at 1280X1024, which you claim to run with 2XAA on a mix of low and medium settings gets 4.4FPS on average. Assuming switching to your settings increases performance four-fold, you still don't reach your claimed results. Since your CPU is a fraction of the power of a modern dual core CPU, a four time increase is unlikely.

Your numbers are wrong.

 

[Tha General]

As I said - None of the modern (end of 2007 and beyond) games, with the exception of CoH2, are playable (Capable of getting a stable 25+ FPS on average) according to the information you just provided.

And other 2008 year games, depending on what game it is and what engine it uses, mostly budget 2008 games, but still 2008.

BTW, I call B.S on your Crysis results (And your CoD4 results). The VIA C7-D is more powerful than your P-III, and together with a massively overclocked Sparkle 8500GT 256MB DDR2 it is not capable of presenting anything near playable performance in Crysis, with an average of 16FPS in the early game and 6FPS in the tank battle "Onslaught" mission - and this is at 640X480 or 800X600. on the bare minimum of settings. In CoD4, the Cargo Ship mission (first in the game) has a max FPS of 24, and an average FPS of 11 (At 640X480, 800X600 or 1024X768 - Obvious CPU bottleneck).

I have crysis the demo on my external hd, along with COD4, i plan to install COD4 again and i will benchmark using fraps and show you how well it performs at 1280x1024 normal to high settings, no AA. Crysis, i will play at 1024x768 low to medium, texture and water and shader on medium, everything else on low and i will show you that i get between 10-25fps. Actually crysis i don't have to use fraps, i can toggle the display info and show you.

These are the settings which i will use again:
http://img510.imageshack.us/my.php?image=crysis5ro6.jpg
http://img300.imageshack.us/my.php?image=settingscrysisqu9.jpg

I can only use AAX2 on my 6200 if i keep everything on low to 1024x768, so i will leave that off, and keep the other settings, low, medium to high.

You can view photos right here on another forum which i use to post on:
http://img154.imageshack.us/img154/5341/crysis3wz2.jpg
http://www.filecram.com/files/7y6.jpg

Further reading, same benchmarks I showed you when I built that mini-rig in my sig:
Here

Addendum:
If you follow this link you will come across the performance of the 8500GT, coupled with a modern dual core CPU, on the PCI-E interconnect, in a multitude of titles. Crysis on High settings at 1280X1024, which you claim to run with 2XAA on a mix of low and medium settings gets 4.4FPS on average. Assuming switching to your settings increases performance four-fold, you still don't reach your claimed results. Since your CPU is a fraction of the power of a modern dual core CPU, a four time increase is unlikely.

Your numbers are wrong.

I am not wrong, i get between 10-25fps. I am not lying lol, i will show you soon. I plan to install crysis later, COD4, i will too and show you some benchmarks.

peace