So you only have PCI slots and want to game?

[redpikachu12]

thanks man this article really helped

 

[red1776]

'Tha' laws of physics

I'm sick of the age old debate of whether or not General's results are legit. I don't think he is telling it straight but I'm pro-anti-flamming anyone as well, including "Tha General".(A.K.A. resident tech wiz who can do things with PCI cards
no one else on earth can.

I would like a chance for rebuttal Tek, and i promise I wont Flame ya . see the problem with what you said there is this. PCI cards, like any other computer component, has a maximum amount of bandwidth, and as such, has a maximum amount of throughput it can achieve. that is a hard fact. im not sure what special skill you think Tha General possesses, when you said "(A.K.A. resident tech wiz who can do things with PCI cards
no one else on earth can" but to achieve the preposterous results he claims, he would quite literally have to break the law of physics.and unless he has Stephen Hawking and Nikola Tesla hold up in his basement combining the power of the ether stream and a black hole, its not happening. you are right when you say "I don't think he is telling it straight". you purchase a PCI card,you install it, you max it out. I am reasonably sure there is at least half a dozen folks on earth that can do that.
The other problem is that a lot of people come here for advice and recommendations.they then make a decision based on that advice and spend a lot of money on components. in my opinion (and im being very conservative with that) it is a slap in the face and extremely disrespectful to the members here that spend there own time to help people free of charge with knowledgeable and thoughtful advice, only to have someone post obviously bogus claims. it is also irresponsible to ignore this disinformation, and watch those asking for help make ineffective purchases based on them. I personally hope that when impossible claims are posted, that folks continue to speak up against. maybe saving people some money, unreasonable expectations, and an exercise in futility.

 

[electromagnetic]

The Novatech EVGA 9400 pci card was a Express x16 they made a mistake.

http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/specpage.html?EVG-94GT5P



I will go the my local store and ask if it really is a PCI card.

 

[Tha General]

Im mostly playing Steam games like CSS, TF2, and L4D. Nothin big Crysis maybe once in awhile

Ok well, the 8400gs should run those games really good with your system. You have a intel board, just make sure all the chipest drivers are install , and use the 175.16 for starters and run those games at 1024x768 or 1280x1024 and you should be fine. Now TF2 never played that, so i am not sure how it will run.
As for crysis, with your rig, hmmmm maybe 1024x768 medium to high settings.
I have study crysis pretty good, so i know what settings decrease performance and what does not.

If you want me to install my 8400gs again and use that for a while and do some testing with it, let me know. The nforce motherboard drivers doesn't seem to be affecting the Radeon card, but it is with the 8400gs, i may can find a way around it, who knows.

It doesn't matter what system you have: Your results are lies. You never got them. They are in fact impossible with the video card you specified and the settings you specified, even if you have a Core i7 975EE at 5Ghz as your CPU and DDR3 2000Mhz for your RAM.

My System & GPU + Crysis Settings

" GPU " (stock )

http://gpuz.techpowerup.com/09/07/18/gkr.png

" CPU "


Crysis at 1280x1024 all high to medium settings. The only settings which i have on low are post processing & volumetric effects on low, everything else on high or medium settings , getting a solid 18-32fps. It drops to about 14 when fighting. But stays between 18-28fps most of the time, goes up to around 32, even 35 depending on where i am at.



Crysis 1024x768, same settings, getting around 25-41fps.



Still think i am lying?, keep in mind this is with my HD2400 and the card is not even that good in terms of specs. Now picture if i had a 8500gt or 8600gt or one of those 9 series PCI cards?

Also, ask this guy how he plays his games using his PCI card which he just bought btw
http://forums.guru3d.com/member.php?u=194858

 

[Tha General]

The Novatech EVGA 9400 pci card was a Express x16 they made a mistake.

http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/specpage.html?EVG-94GT5P



I will go the my local store and ask if it really is a PCI card.

No its a PCI card look:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130499
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130498

 

[Rage_3K_Moiz]

That is FUD again. Post a video and we'll see for ourselves.

You've been proven again and again to be a liar. My rig is far more powerful than yours, and I only manage to get about 35-40FPS at 1440x900. So there's no way on earth your rig can be giving you those frame rates without you cherry-picking your screenshots or straight-out lying.

Stop feeding people FUD. It's about time man!

 

[Tha General]

That is FUD again. Post a video and we'll see for ourselves.

You've been proven again and again to be a liar. My rig is far more powerful than yours, and I only manage to get about 35-40FPS at 1440x900. So there's no way on earth your rig can be giving you those frame rates without you cherry-picking your screenshots or straight-out lying.

Stop feeding people FUD. It's about time man!

You get a solid 30-40fps at 1440x900 at what settings, detail settings?
Thats perfect, your computer is very powerful. even tho at 1280x1024 you should get around 40-60.

Video?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4TcKDhOdqU

This is the performance i get with using Vista, and xp drivers, so the performance slightly weaker then how it performs now, because i am using XP now with XP drivers. Nevertheless, thats crysis warhead recording at:

Recording at 1024x768(correction) AAX2 , enthusiast to gamer to mainstream to low settings.
Putting on AA doesn't affect performance one bit. And before you say it, yes recording using fraps drops the frames a whole alot, without fraps, the game " was moving at " 19-32 "

 

[teklord]

1280x1024 is almost the same resolution as 1440x900, it is spread out more laterally to be in widescreen format. So, if you get those FPS results in one resolution, it will be close to the same in the other one.

As for Red1776, I strive not to spread FUD (Fear, uncertainty, & doubt?) and everything I say is grounded in reality. I merely strive not to flame Tha General even though I couldn't do that with more powerful PCI cards on a more powerful PC, for the sake of my own conscious. Like the Hawking & Tesla analogy however.

If you want the best PCI card, get the 9500GT PCI - Jaton brand for the most PCI juice but know you won't get miracles and probably not even what Tha General claims either. Best bang for the buck is the 8400GS IMO, but I would get the 9500GT since you need every FPS you can get through the PCI bus. That is not FUD but fact and I know personally because I bought a 8500GT PCI when it was the best PCI card out and know it made a huge improvement over the FX 5500 PCI I had previously.

 

[Yukikaze]

Still think i am lying?

I don't think you're lying. I've proven you are. Twice.

Get over it, and stop lying, cherry picking results, editing pictures, or whatever it is you are doing. Just stop misleading people, like more than one person told you lately.

Stop the FUD.

 

[Tha General]

Ok, how about you spend 300 on a emachine single core processor and spend what about 50 dollars at tigerdirect for the visiontek 2400hd and play crysis yourself if you think i am lying?

 

[Rage_3K_Moiz]

You get a solid 30-40fps at 1440x900 at what settings, detail settings?
Thats perfect, your computer is very powerful. even tho at 1280x1024 you should get around 40-60.

Video?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4TcKDhOdqU

This is the performance i get with using Vista, and xp drivers, so the performance slightly weaker then how it performs now, because i am using XP now with XP drivers. Nevertheless, thats crysis warhead recording at:

Recording at 1024x768(correction) AAX2 , enthusiast to gamer to mainstream to low settings.
Putting on AA doesn't affect performance one bit. And before you say it, yes recording using fraps drops the frames a whole alot, without fraps, the game " was moving at " 19-32 "

I get that with everything on Gamer.

As for AA not affecting performance, that is BS again. AA causes a very noticeable drop in performance.

Also, that video proves that you get not more than 12FPS when you are looking at anywhere except the floor. I'll post a video with the game running on my current rig as soon as I can find my copy of Warhead.

Ok, how about you spend 300 on a emachine single core processor and spend what about 50 dollars at tigerdirect for the visiontek 2400hd and play crysis yourself if you think i am lying?

You may like to do that from time to time to keep your "Grand Delusion" going; others know they can get a much better deal for that much cash.

 

[LinkedKube]

What the point of even playing crysis if its going to look like Doom 1 in quality detail.

 

[xpunkdthrice]

If you want me to install my 8400gs again and use that for a while and do some testing with it, let me know. The nforce motherboard drivers doesn't seem to be affecting the Radeon card, but it is with the 8400gs, i may can find a way around it, who knows.

That would be great
i would love to see test results on Source games

 

[Yukikaze]

Ok, how about you spend 300 on a emachine single core processor and spend what about 50 dollars at tigerdirect for the visiontek 2400hd and play crysis yourself if you think i am lying?

Simple - Because I ran a better card in my PCI benchmarks (8500GT PCI vs. 8400GS and HD2400Pro PCI), on a better system (An E5200 at nearly 4Ghz) and didn't get those frame rates. There is this interesting concept of an upper and lower bound you might consider to learn. If system A is better in any way than system B, then system A is going to play Crysis better than system B. Hence, I don't need to spend money on those trash pre-builts you swear by - I've already shown your results to be false.

Besides, if I had 300$ to spend on computer gear right now, I'd replace the 9600GT in my Q9650 rig with something more potent, not waste it on complete and utter crap (Not to mention that for 350$ you can get a normal system that is even worth something in gaming with a decent video card, instead of a crap emachine with a single core CPU and a PCI video card).

 

[Tha General]

That would be great
i would love to see test results on Source games

I don't have any source games, but maybe one gunman chronicles lol. But i have my 8400gs back in, so far tested 5 games, works really good, 50-150fps. Alpha Prime max settings at 1280x1024 30-70fps. Jericho horrible, 4-5fps. Seems to be some major issues, and i think its because of those nforce drivers. Be glad you have a intel board. I am never buying anymore computers that have nvidia or ati boards, all intel or nothing else.

There may be a way around this this, but i haven't figure it out yet. Going to test more games later.
peace

 

[LinkedKube]

The General I remember you posting a video about 6-10 pages back, saying that Jericho ran great. What's the problem.

 

[teklord]

I don't think Tha General is intentionally trying to mislead the masses with FUD, but he is merely technologically inept hence his struggle to accept PCI-e GPU's because it is technology he is not familiar with. This is why I avoid flaming him because he seems sincere but more accurately perhaps is that he is sincerely misled in his statements and worldview of how PC's operate. I think he really believes he is attaining the results he claims in his tests but actually is not looking at them properly and is quoting inaccurate results.

 

[Tha General]

The General I remember you posting a video about 6-10 pages back, saying that Jericho ran great. What's the problem.

Yea it " does " run well when i am using XP+Visiontek 2400hd
Yea it " did " run well when i was using Vista 32bit + 8400GS or 2400HD, non Nforce drivers
Now it runs " like a pos, major bottlenecking " with XP + 8400GS + Nforce drivers install.

I don't know how to get around this without using nforce drivers, or maybe its the drivers who knows. I will try to see can i get around it, because as of right now, some games are working perfect, and some aren't. Its either the drivers giving me trouble or its the nforce drivers. But i have a nvidia board and with xp there is no way around not being to use them.

 

[Tha General]

Yea something is bottlenecking my computer, and i don't know what the hell it is. This one game called the chosen, which is a game i always benchmark and stuff. At the menu i am suppose to get 80-100fps with the 8400gs, now i am getting 22fps. Its these fu**in nforce drivers , or its the drivers. I am going to spend hours starting right now, testing out different drivers, nforce drivers, if i can't solve the problem, i am going back to using my 2400hd.

 

[LinkedKube]

I thought you said you didnt believe in bottlenecking, well you said it a few pages back.

 

[red1776]

Yea something is bottlenecking my computer, and i don't know what the hell it is. This one game called the chosen, which is a game i always benchmark and stuff. At the menu i am suppose to get 80-100fps with the 8400gs, now i am getting 22fps. Its these fu**in nforce drivers , or its the drivers. I am going to spend hours starting right now, testing out different drivers, nforce drivers, if i can't solve the problem, i am going back to using my 2400hd.

I thought you said you didnt believe in bottlenecking, well you said it a few pages back.

Rofl :haha:

 

[Tha General]

I thought you said you didnt believe in bottlenecking, well you said it a few pages back.

I never said that. I said i don't believe a CPU, can bottleneck a GPU. I clearly said that if your setup is not set up correctly, it will create a bottleneck with the video card, which it seems like it is doing with my 8400gs.

So i am just back using my 2400hd. Plan to go video card shopping in a few weeks, and finally pick up a pcie card, not sure on what yet. My HD2400 is working amazing for the time being, too bad my 8400gs does not work good with my system tho in xp tho. I didnt work too well with vista either.

The only time the 8400gs was working good was when i had my celeron D and Pentium III.

peace

 

[LinkedKube]

Rofl :haha:

its not funny, he needs a head examination. Seriously.

 

[LinkedKube]

Use Google much ThaGeneral. Who taught you about computers. That guy should be fired, and thrown into a pit.

 

[red1776]

Super,
I merely thought you pointing out his gross contradiction was amusing, and i agree with you. i hate to quote myself, but the following is typical many posts i have made on this threads outlived 90+ pages. it was posted two days ago.

I would like a chance for rebuttal Tek, and i promise I wont Flame ya . see the problem with what you said there is this. PCI cards, like any other computer component, has a maximum amount of bandwidth, and as such, has a maximum amount of throughput it can achieve. that is a hard fact. im not sure what special skill you think Tha General possesses, when you said "(A.K.A. resident tech wiz who can do things with PCI cards
no one else on earth can" but to achieve the preposterous results he claims, he would quite literally have to break the law of physics.and unless he has Stephen Hawking and Nikola Tesla hold up in his basement combining the power of the ether stream and a black hole, its not happening. you are right when you say "I don't think he is telling it straight". you purchase a PCI card,you install it, you max it out. I am reasonably sure there is at least half a dozen folks on earth that can do that.
The other problem is that a lot of people come here for advice and recommendations.they then make a decision based on that advice and spend a lot of money on components. in my opinion (and im being very conservative with that) it is a slap in the face and extremely disrespectful to the members here that spend there own time to help people free of charge with knowledgeable and thoughtful advice, only to have someone post obviously bogus claims. it is also irresponsible to ignore this disinformation, and watch those asking for help make ineffective purchases based on them. I personally hope that when impossible claims are posted, that folks continue to speak up against. maybe saving people some money, unreasonable expectations, and an exercise in futility.