Tech giants blast Trump order banning certain foreign workers through 2020

midian182

Posts: 5,780   +46
Staff member

The executive order, signed by Trump on Monday, applies to H-1B visas (skilled workers), H-2B visas (non-agricultural seasonal workers), H-4 visas (spouses and children of H-1B/H-2B visa holders), L-1 visas (execs transferring to the US with the same employer), L2 visas (dependents of L1 holders), certain J-1 visas (cultural and educational exchange.), and J-2 visas (spouses and dependents of J-1 holders).

It’s the suspension of H-1B visas, used by many tech companies to hire foreign workers with specialized skills, that is proving most controversial among some of America’s largest organizations. The US grants 85,000 of these visas every year.

As reported by The Guardian, Amazon said that “preventing high skilled professionals from entering the country and contributing to America’s economic recovery puts American’s global competitiveness at risk.”

Sundar Pichai also spoke out: “Immigration has contributed immensely to America’s economic success, making it a global leader in tech, and also Google the company it is today.”

“Disappointed by today’s proclamation – we’ll continue to stand with immigrants and work to expand opportunity for all,” added the Google boss.

Twitter vice-president for public policy and philanthropy, Jessica Herrera-Flanigan, said: “This proclamation undermines America’s greatest economic asset: its diversity. People from all over the world come here to join our labor force, pay taxes, and contribute to our global competitiveness on the world stage.”

The order does not apply to those already in the US, and there will be exemptions for food processing workers and health care workers helping with the Covid-19 pandemic. Anyone "whose entry would be in the national interests" is also exempt.

The order comes two months after Trump signed an initial executive order that imposed a 60-day ban on green cards issued abroad. Many of the president’s supporters said it didn’t actually “suspend immigration into the US,” as Trump promised.

A White House official said the new measures would free up more than half a million jobs for Americans, but some business groups argue that they could reduce job creation and harm the economic recovery.

Permalink to story.

 

wiyosaya

Posts: 5,265   +3,365
The 'American Dream' hasn't really been a thing for 50yrs...but people still like to throw it out for some reason.
The American Dream hasn't been a thing in America for at least 50yrs, that I agree.

It seems to be this fantasy of people have who come here from other countries expecting a better life. For those who do come here to look for a better life, they probably find it because conditions in America are still far better than they are in many other countries in the world.

Jesus, I wouldn't want this frat boy to be my lawyer (or whatever the hell he's in college for).
He's probably in college to study fermentation.

Of course, those tech giants will be against. It's not that it will be more difficult for them to find qualified workers, it's just going to cost them a bit more. They are too settled into saving money by exploiting work force from other countries.
I work for a company in the US that has, for years, been trying to find qualified people for highly skilled jobs - software engineering that requires some knowledge of physics and math. However, they are not out there at any price (note that our company has not resorted to hiring anyone with this type of visa to make up the difference). I really hate to say it, however, many of them are exactly as pictured in the post by @krizby They don't give a crap about anything other than where their next brew comes from.

For some positions, my company at one point restarted apprenticeships until trade wars came into play. So while some think those wars are the bee's knees, they have had an effect on companies like mine who were trying to hire and train American workers.

I am sure this next comment will draw the ire of some, but Trump is playing to his base again with this. It will not help one bit.
 

VitalyT

Posts: 4,970   +3,827
TechSpot Elite
I work for a company in the US that has, for years, been trying to find qualified people for highly skilled jobs - software engineering that requires some knowledge of physics and math. However, they are not out there at any price (note that our company has not resorted to hiring anyone with this type of visa to make up the difference)
The kind of job you are describing accounts for a tiny percent of work force employed by large corporations. At least by 90% of who they hire, they can find them at home, if they want.
 

wiyosaya

Posts: 5,265   +3,365
The kind of job you are describing accounts for a tiny percent of work force employed by large corporations. At least by 90% of who they hire, they can find them at home, if they want.
If you have the impression that crApazon is hiring people using H1-B visas to work at their warehouses, I think you are mistaken.

From the article:
It’s the suspension of H-1B visas, used by many tech companies to hire foreign workers with specialized skills, that is proving most controversial among some of America’s largest organizations.
It would be interesting to see statistics on where the visa holders are working; crApazon has a very large cloud service that requires workers with skills not unlike what I described.
 

Plutoisaplanet

Posts: 235   +263
I strongly feel that there needs to be a stronger push to educate young people in computer related fields beginning at earlier ages. In high school 10 years ago, there were no options available to me. I only began learning to code in college.

For many incoming college students, they never even consider the option because they were never introduced to it. For others, they have no idea if they’d be skilled at it and have already chosen something else to study. Meanwhile where the majority of incoming skilled workers come from, it’s not very likely this issue of early introduction in education exists.
 

Fergutor

Posts: 18   +14
Meanwhile these excellent American youths will fill those vacant highly skilled jobs

Is that the only kind of "American youth" in existence? Or a representative of The "American youth"?
Usually when one make such comments get accused of racism, supremacism, bigotry, "phobias", other prejudices.
It's very clear you regard the American youth as inferior to people from other places. So you fit all those...
 

Uncle Al

Posts: 7,098   +5,453
During several projects for the Pharma Industry I frequently had to outsource work to off shore workers. By and large I found they to be less capable, more difficult to work with, and in a word ... lazy. The American workers were far superior BUT they were more expensive, a lot more difficult to recruit and to keep through the end of the project. If American companies were able to find a reasonable answer to these problems it would certainly make it a LOT easier and attractive to use our home grown talent.

The main problem I found with younger talent was keeping their attention on the work. Realistically, we would expect a good 5-6 hours a day of productivity (minus meetings and other company based interruptions) so it wasn't very strenuous but couldn't count how many times I walked into a cubical to find a programmer playing some kind of game or chatting with friends on Skype or their phones.

This will only get better when we find a good way to keep them involved with the project. Todays education institutions are more interested in getting the money than teaching. Perhaps it's time for industry to start their own Industry College when is funded by industry, offers free tuition with the contractual agreement of a certain number of years commitment to their supporting company. The old carrot & stick process still works wonders for those that are or can be motivated!
 

wiyosaya

Posts: 5,265   +3,365
During several projects for the Pharma Industry I frequently had to outsource work to off shore workers. By and large I found they to be less capable, more difficult to work with, and in a word ... lazy. The American workers were far superior BUT they were more expensive, a lot more difficult to recruit and to keep through the end of the project. If American companies were able to find a reasonable answer to these problems it would certainly make it a LOT easier and attractive to use our home grown talent.

The main problem I found with younger talent was keeping their attention on the work. Realistically, we would expect a good 5-6 hours a day of productivity (minus meetings and other company based interruptions) so it wasn't very strenuous but couldn't count how many times I walked into a cubical to find a programmer playing some kind of game or chatting with friends on Skype or their phones.

This will only get better when we find a good way to keep them involved with the project. Todays education institutions are more interested in getting the money than teaching. Perhaps it's time for industry to start their own Industry College when is funded by industry, offers free tuition with the contractual agreement of a certain number of years commitment to their supporting company. The old carrot & stick process still works wonders for those that are or can be motivated!
Many companies started to realize that outsourcing is not cost effective. There are some, though, that have not yet learned that lesson and in pursuit of the lowest cost, may never learn that lesson.

Absolutely today's education institutions are interested in only making money. There are so-called top 20 institutions in the US that grade on a curve. This method of grading has its basis in the average that the class gets. For example, If the average grade on a test in the class is 30/100 then 30/100 is a C. As I see it, that really does not equate to any student in the class having learned the material though there may be an exceptional few. Think about this - anyone who did get that 30 is more likely to get a diploma. All I can say about that is WTF? Unfortunately, call me what you will for saying this, that contributes highly to the meme in the cartoon post above at least as I see it, but they have that diploma.

As for keeping the attention of workers - there is unquestioningly a significant amount of competition ranging from higher pay elsewhere to the latest phone game app that all their friends are playing.
 

BobHome

Posts: 70   +27
One thing not mentioned is the cost of that so-called educated American. Getting a BS, them MS over 4-6+ years can run into hundreds of thousands of dollars--even for that '30/100 is a C'.
Tech and community colleges try to build inroads, but most leave you with 'just' an AS or AAS degree and still cost you $$$$$$.
Our educational system is sorely broken IMO; another institution that's more interested in greed than filling need.
 
  • Like
Reactions: dms96960 and bea108

Evernessince

Posts: 5,102   +5,345
Of course, those tech giants will be against. It's not that it will be more difficult for them to find qualified workers, it's just going to cost them a bit more. They are too settled into saving money by exploiting work force from other countries.
Why is it that Americans are expected to support the displacement of their own workforce, while no other country on the planet does?

And it's beyond obvious that the $T tech companies LOVE getting cheap foreign workers.

No, America simply doesn't have enough high-skilled workers to fill those positions.

I strongly feel that there needs to be a stronger push to educate young people in computer related fields beginning at earlier ages. In high school 10 years ago, there were no options available to me. I only began learning to code in college.

For many incoming college students, they never even consider the option because they were never introduced to it. For others, they have no idea if they’d be skilled at it and have already chosen something else to study. Meanwhile where the majority of incoming skilled workers come from, it’s not very likely this issue of early introduction in education exists.
They do have intro classes to some computer related basics in public schools nowadays. They are optional though.


The main problem I found with younger talent was keeping their attention on the work. Realistically, we would expect a good 5-6 hours a day of productivity (minus meetings and other company based interruptions) so it wasn't very strenuous but couldn't count how many times I walked into a cubical to find a programmer playing some kind of game or chatting with friends on Skype or their phones.
For desk jobs it might be good to have a 15 minute period of physical activity every 2-4 hours. Preferably outside. The brain requires stimulation in order to perform best. There are some people with a very bad habit of checking their phones every few minutes, obviously those require a different approach.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Charles Olson

candle_86

Posts: 313   +245
If you have the impression that crApazon is hiring people using H1-B visas to work at their warehouses, I think you are mistaken.

From the article:


It would be interesting to see statistics on where the visa holders are working; crApazon has a very large cloud service that requires workers with skills not unlike what I described.
From personal experience I was let go of a system migration job for Alcon Laboratory's in 2012 because they where paying me and another 2 guys 17hr to do the XP to 7 migration. One Christmas day I got the call I'd be training my replacement, they hired 3 h1b visa workers at 10hr. Was it illegal sure, did the government act on my complaint nope. Alcon fired American workers for 3 visa works, saving themselves 21hr on pay and I'd bet a fair amount on other taxes also.

I fully support this move, you get fired while having Christmas dinner and see if you support the visa system
 
  • Like
Reactions: dms96960 and bea108

Puiu

Posts: 3,912   +2,427
Well American president should look after American people first don't you agree?
Unfortunately he doesn't seem to know how to do it and just makes stupid rash decisions that helps nobody.

What they needed to do was combat the visa fraud which would in turn help both Americans and foreigners that actually have a good reason for working in the US. Shutting down the whole system is the mark of someone who declared that he can't solve the problems in the system.

Only a very small percentage of those 500k jobs will return like this to Americans, companies will just outsource things or close down because of a lack of qualified workers/money.
 

MasterMace

Posts: 126   +86
The kind of job you are describing accounts for a tiny percent of work force employed by large corporations. At least by 90% of who they hire, they can find them at home, if they want.
I would also pose that any Bachelors of Computer Science has Physics courses and Mathematics courses built into the curriculum. This guy is talking nonsense.