Tesla will open Superchargers to other EVs later this year

Shawn Knight

Posts: 13,278   +132
Staff member
What just happened? Tesla will be opening its Supercharger network of electric vehicle charging stations to other EVs later this year. Tesla CEO Elon Musk recently confirmed the news on Twitter, in response to a message about people criticizing Tesla for creating its own proprietary connector.

In responding to that, Musk said they created their own connector because there was no standard back when they started and Tesla was the only one making long-range electric cars at that time.

It’s unclear exactly how Tesla would get around its proprietary connector usage in North America (perhaps an adapter of some sort) but in other regions, the company uses standard connectors. In a separate comment, Musk said Tesla’s Superchargers will be available to other EVs in all countries over time.

The electric automaker unveiled its Supercharger stations way back in 2012. At the time, a 30-minute charge would get users around 180 miles of range. Today, a 15-minute recharge can supply enough juice for up to 200 miles.

Tesla has also grown its Supercharger network considerably over the years. According to the company’s website, there are now more than 25,000 Superchargers globally. In the US, for example, it’s now possible to travel from coast to coast with ease. In densely populated areas, Superchargers are even more plentiful.

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3volv3d

Posts: 349   +171
This only furthers my point that electric cars are meh.
Just as damaging to the environment or more so.
And I don't wanna have to pull over for 15 to 30 minutes, when I can fuel a bike in 1.
Make the slow lanes on motorways / highways a wireless charging lane.
Or bring back trains and just make cities and towns that work with a decent transport system.
Fxxx what the individual wants. Make a better world.

This was a political broadcast for communist conservatives of the new world as by the teachings of Cameron and Smythe.

 

QuantumPhysics

Posts: 5,019   +5,625
On a recent trip, I drove from NYC to central PA (250 miles) and I stopped at a Roy Rogers rest stop. There was a Tesla Supercharger with 10 stalls and it was empty.

I drove my gas car, going to MOPAR Nationals - averaging 15 mpg on 93 octane that cost $72 a tank.

I definitely want an EV for personal use and the main barrier, I believe, to many people is "where to charge in emergency". If Tesla opens their chargers, and regular chargers already accept Teslas, and more people charge at home or work, EV can seriously gain more ground faster.

I rarely road trip and my EV would be simply for drives between home and the office.
 

Plutoisaplanet

Posts: 479   +695
In case anyone is curious about Tesla's charging network build out, they don't share the status of superchargers being built or planned, but you can find this at a website called supercharge.info which is community driven and has fantastic information. Particularly it distinguishes between upcoming sites with a permit or under construction, plus there's a forum thread for almost every supercharger (for images and discussion purposes). The other useful purpose for it is that it's much easier to find than the map on Tesla's website (and many times more accurate too).
 

Fearghast

Posts: 376   +285
Makes sense as their grid is already pretty solid, and it's untapped source or potential revenue.
I wonder if the pricing will be different for other brands.
 

Theinsanegamer

Posts: 2,508   +3,777
On a recent trip, I drove from NYC to central PA (250 miles) and I stopped at a Roy Rogers rest stop. There was a Tesla Supercharger with 10 stalls and it was empty.

I drove my gas car, going to MOPAR Nationals - averaging 15 mpg on 93 octane that cost $72 a tank.

I definitely want an EV for personal use and the main barrier, I believe, to many people is "where to charge in emergency". If Tesla opens their chargers, and regular chargers already accept Teslas, and more people charge at home or work, EV can seriously gain more ground faster.

I rarely road trip and my EV would be simply for drives between home and the office.
Charging infastructure is only one issue. Even if you did have chargers as common as gas stations, one has to look no further then the f-150 lightning, where its FASTEST charge time is 4 hours. With electrics, the longer the range the longer the charge time. Just imagine how many gas cars can use a filling station in 4 hours. Or even 1 hour.

But then if you make the batteries big enough to get 600+ miles (the shortest range I'd consider for a EV) you dramatically extend charging time and more importantly weight. The F-150 lightning weighs over 7000 lbs. My heavy duty big block monster doesnt weigh that much.

None of this addresses the cost of these vehicles. Most younger peopel today one just one car, they cant afford multiple cars, especially at EV prices. So unless the EV can do anything the user needs in any situation the pick up rate will remain low.
 

UltraModernGuy

Posts: 51   +49
I drive a Mini EV. Most of my driving is in the city and my commute is pretty short. I barely even think about range anymore. If I take a longer trip, I find a fast charger on the route and it takes 30-45 minutes to fill up. Most have a place to eat or shop, so just plan for that. No biggie.
If I wasn't in a state with an extensive EV network, I would never consider an EV.
 

scavengerspc

Posts: 1,346   +1,256
TechSpot Elite

Plutoisaplanet

Posts: 479   +695
Makes sense as their grid is already pretty solid, and it's untapped source or potential revenue.
I wonder if the pricing will be different for other brands.
It has to be more expensive, since Tesla uses revenue from cars they sell to help build out the supercharger network. For cars Tesla doesn't sell, I wouldn't be surprised if it was 50%-100% more expensive to charge (than the current supercharger $0.28/kWh average). For comparison, Electrify America is 50% more expensive on average. And to compare that with gas, a 30mpg vehicle at $3/gallon costs the same amount as charging a Tesla at 30-40 cents/kWh (depending on which Tesla you're talking about).

So it may actually be somewhat more economic to drive a gas car across the US than to drive a non-Tesla EV across the US on Tesla's charging network. That said, charging at home makes any EV more affordable with no contest as those prices typically range from 12-18 cents/kWh (2-3x cheaper than gas).
 

JohnSmithESP

Posts: 49   +24
This only furthers my point that electric cars are meh.
Just as damaging to the environment or more so.
And I don't wanna have to pull over for 15 to 30 minutes, when I can fuel a bike in 1.
Make the slow lanes on motorways / highways a wireless charging lane.
Or bring back trains and just make cities and towns that work with a decent transport system.
Fxxx what the individual wants. Make a better world.

This was a political broadcast for communist conservatives of the new world as by the teachings of Cameron and Smythe.
I'm extremely surprise that the US train system sucks hard, in most of Spain is pretty nice and half of the country is mountains
 

Kotters

Posts: 335   +230
Charging infastructure is only one issue. Even if you did have chargers as common as gas stations, one has to look no further then the f-150 lightning, where its FASTEST charge time is 4 hours. With electrics, the longer the range the longer the charge time. Just imagine how many gas cars can use a filling station in 4 hours. Or even 1 hour.

But then if you make the batteries big enough to get 600+ miles (the shortest range I'd consider for a EV) you dramatically extend charging time and more importantly weight. The F-150 lightning weighs over 7000 lbs. My heavy duty big block monster doesnt weigh that much.

None of this addresses the cost of these vehicles. Most younger peopel today one just one car, they cant afford multiple cars, especially at EV prices. So unless the EV can do anything the user needs in any situation the pick up rate will remain low.

EVs do not need, nor do they aim to, replace gas infrastructure 1:1 with charging infrastructure. Most people have electricity where they sleep at night, you see. Charging stations are only required for long-distance trips. A car with 150mi range doesn't need to charge outside the home otherwise.

As for things like trucks, the vast majority of consumer truck-owners don't use them as anything more than a car. People whose use cases are legitimately not met by EVs obviously can't use EVs to meet their use cases, but those people are far from the majority of consumer drivers.
 

QuantumPhysics

Posts: 5,019   +5,625
Charging infastructure is only one issue. Even if you did have chargers as common as gas stations, one has to look no further then the f-150 lightning, where its FASTEST charge time is 4 hours. With electrics, the longer the range the longer the charge time. Just imagine how many gas cars can use a filling station in 4 hours. Or even 1 hour.

But then if you make the batteries big enough to get 600+ miles (the shortest range I'd consider for a EV) you dramatically extend charging time and more importantly weight. The F-150 lightning weighs over 7000 lbs. My heavy duty big block monster doesnt weigh that much.

None of this addresses the cost of these vehicles. Most younger peopel today one just one car, they cant afford multiple cars, especially at EV prices. So unless the EV can do anything the user needs in any situation the pick up rate will remain low.


The Free Market always works.

Some people know they don't need huge amounts of range and they also know what their own charging infrastructure access is.

I can plug my car into my home and recharge it to FULL every single morning. If I road trip, I can rest every 200- 300 miles. I never drive that far without stopping anyway.
 

hahahanoobs

Posts: 3,429   +1,571
I laughed out loud when I read people said the connector was proprietary. Even if it was designed that way, so what?! Last I heard Musk started his own car company in the United States of America.

On a serious note, Musk should be commended for doing this without government intervention. I was almost sure that would be the only way to get companies to follow one standard a la gasoline.

My biggest confusion with EV's, has always been on how car companies thought building their own chargers for their own cars was a good idea to begin with. I totally thought they would have worked together on that at the very least. It would help everyone immensely.

Thankfully it didn't take decades to get to this point.
 

CBTex

Posts: 123   +242
It's not just the US train system, most of the roads and bridges are crumbling in the US. It's a joke compared to other countries.

Are you really surprised? Or just wanting to make a negative comment?

Widespread train systems do not make sense in the USA due to population densities (or lack thereof). They make perfect since in Europe where populations are centered in tightly populated cities. In Europe, cities were established and grew up when the primary form of commuting was on foot. That forced people to live and work near city centers. In the USA, most cities experienced most of their growth after the invention of the automobile. That allowed for a lot more commuting to work from outside the city.

Factor in the overall size too (the USA is just slightly smaller by area than Europe as a whole). It's 4500 km from Los Angeles to New York. Even a bullet train would take 20+ hours to travel that far. It's only about 5 hours on a plane. Would you be "surprised" that you can't take a train from Lisbon to Moscow? It's about the same distance.

That said, there are trains on the East Coast connecting heavily populated areas like Washington, D.C., New York and Boston capable of hitting 250 km/h. There just aren't enough people traveling from Savanah, Georgia to Portland, Oregon for trains to be the primary form of transportation.
 

scavengerspc

Posts: 1,346   +1,256
TechSpot Elite
It has to be more expensive, since Tesla uses revenue from cars they sell to help build out the supercharger network. For cars Tesla doesn't sell, I wouldn't be surprised if it was 50%-100% more expensive to charge (than the current supercharger $0.28/kWh average). For comparison, Electrify America is 50% more expensive on average. And to compare that with gas, a 30mpg vehicle at $3/gallon costs the same amount as charging a Tesla at 30-40 cents/kWh (depending on which Tesla you're talking about).

So it may actually be somewhat more economic to drive a gas car across the US than to drive a non-Tesla EV across the US on Tesla's charging network. That said, charging at home makes any EV more affordable with no contest as those prices typically range from 12-18 cents/kWh (2-3x cheaper than gas).
The good news is that Fords EA is switching from timed charges to price per kWh. I think the average now is around $.30 per. So even a battery like the Tesla Model 3 would cost $13 to charge, even from completely drained, and get approx 240 miles from that. And by the way, that 240 mi. +\- would cost $7.15 to charge at home. Not to mention near zero maintenance.
 
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DaveBG

Posts: 559   +249
Charging infastructure is only one issue. Even if you did have chargers as common as gas stations, one has to look no further then the f-150 lightning, where its FASTEST charge time is 4 hours. With electrics, the longer the range the longer the charge time. Just imagine how many gas cars can use a filling station in 4 hours. Or even 1 hour.

But then if you make the batteries big enough to get 600+ miles (the shortest range I'd consider for a EV) you dramatically extend charging time and more importantly weight. The F-150 lightning weighs over 7000 lbs. My heavy duty big block monster doesnt weigh that much.

None of this addresses the cost of these vehicles. Most younger peopel today one just one car, they cant afford multiple cars, especially at EV prices. So unless the EV can do anything the user needs in any situation the pick up rate will remain low.
There are already more charging points than gas stations and also on most charge points there are more cables than pumps on the stations. So your first concern in mute. Also no one charges from empty to full. People usually start their day with full charge from overnight charging and only top up 40-50% in case they travel far.
Regarding the weight - you can find of course many examples but EV are not heavier in general that the average new legacy ICE car. Tesla for example in most cases is lighter than comparable new cars of the same class.
As for the cost given your own example the F150 EV costs less than the same 4 door F150 ICE. So I have no idea who will buy the more expensive one just to start spending on fuel...
 

Theinsanegamer

Posts: 2,508   +3,777
EVs do not need, nor do they aim to, replace gas infrastructure 1:1 with charging infrastructure. Most people have electricity where they sleep at night, you see. Charging stations are only required for long-distance trips. A car with 150mi range doesn't need to charge outside the home otherwise.

As for things like trucks, the vast majority of consumer truck-owners don't use them as anything more than a car. People whose use cases are legitimately not met by EVs obviously can't use EVs to meet their use cases, but those people are far from the majority of consumer drivers.
You're right, it's not 1:1, its closer to 4:1 since electric charging takes so much longer then gas refueling. And while people can "charge at night", you need specialized hardware to do it. The vast majority of houses do nto have the 240v hookups to do fast charging, and if you are one of the many who dont have that you are stuck with 120v, which is utterly useless unless you travel <3 miles per day, according to sites like bloomberg. And, sorry, but lack of infastructure for charging is the #1 reason many avoid EVs.

Not sure why you brought up the red herring of "truck users dont do truck things" since that has nothign to do with what I'm talking about, but since you brought that up, lets explore it, shall we? Electric ranges are optimistic already, but as sites like TFL have demonstrated with the model Y, when towing or doing any significant work the range drops like a rock. 300 miles? Try 40-80. TFL's tesla model X was rendered to just 1/3rd of its range with a not so large trailer, and the heavier you go the more exponential the energy consumption is.


Yeah, THAT's a technology ready for prime time /sarcasm.
There are already more charging points than gas stations and also on most charge points there are more cables than pumps on the stations. So your first concern in mute.
Do you have a source for this? Because according to statista, there were 40,582 charging stations in the US as of february 2021, with a total of 97,589 charging points.

In 2018 there were over 150,000 gas stations at the US, and while the numebr of pumps at any particular station swings wildly, EV fans tend to settle on the number 8 for comparisons sake. That would be 1,200,000 gas pumps.

Hmmm.....Something doesnt add up here.

Also no one charges from empty to full. People usually start their day with full charge from overnight charging and only top up 40-50% in case they travel far.
Citation needed
Regarding the weight - you can find of course many examples but EV are not heavier in general that the average new legacy ICE car. Tesla for example in most cases is lighter than comparable new cars of the same class.
This is just HILARIOUSLY wrong. A ford taurus is 1" narrower then a tesla model S, 8" LONGER, and 4" higher. An AWD version weighs 4327 lbs. A AWD tesla model S weighs 4941 lbs. Same size car, no?

The ford fusion is 2" wider, 7" longer, and 1" taller then a model 3. A model 3 weighs 4,250 lbs in AWD form, compared to 3816 for the AWD fusion

Tesla model X is the same length, 1" wider, and 4" shorter then a VW atlas. VW atlas weighs 4614 in top AWD trim, model X weighs 5,648!!!

If you are going to pick a point, dont pick one so easy to disprove with a basic google search.

As for the cost given your own example the F150 EV costs less than the same 4 door F150 ICE. So I have no idea who will buy the more expensive one just to start spending on fuel...
Again, red herring? Whataboutism? Has nothing to do with the battery. You also are basing this on, what? The configurator for the F-150 lightning isnt online yet, so you cannot configure two of the same trucks to compare prices yet.

The MSRPs HAVE been revealed though, and the XLT lightning has a staring MSRP of $52,974. Gas version is $46,495. I'm not going to bother with the others because I'm pretty sure at this point it's obvious you have no idea what you are talking about nor do you want to have any serious discussion about EVs. EV fanbois trying to argue with red herrings is honestly the worst.
The Free Market always works.

Some people know they don't need huge amounts of range and they also know what their own charging infrastructure access is.

I can plug my car into my home and recharge it to FULL every single morning. If I road trip, I can rest every 200- 300 miles. I never drive that far without stopping anyway.
I'm sure it will, but until I can get the super long rang emodels I'll be sticking to my trusty ICEs. We got the big batteries we wanted in phones, it only took a decade of complaining to get there though....
 

UltraModernGuy

Posts: 51   +49
Are you really surprised? Or just wanting to make a negative comment?
I made a simple statement that our roadways and bridges are in poor shape across the country. You can't argue that. You sound triggered, here's some warm milk. Have a great day.
 

Plutoisaplanet

Posts: 479   +695
You're right, it's not 1:1, its closer to 4:1 since electric charging takes so much longer then gas refueling. And while people can "charge at night", you need specialized hardware to do it. The vast majority of houses do nto have the 240v hookups to do fast charging, and if you are one of the many who dont have that you are stuck with 120v, which is utterly useless unless you travel <3 miles per day, according to sites like bloomberg. And, sorry, but lack of infastructure for charging is the #1 reason many avoid EVs.
Anyone who has ever worked with electronics knows that a 240V outlet is not specialized hardware. Almost every house comes with one in the laundry room, which obviously isn't usable because it's already taken, but that's just an example of how standardized it is. My father who dropped out of college for electrical engineering 30 years before put one in himself and it was no big deal. Here are a couple other examples of how un-special a 240V outlet is:

"Installing an outlet for these appliances is no more difficult than than installing a standard 120-volt wall outlet." - https://www.hunker.com/13414163/how-to-install-a-240v-electrical-outlet
"Generally, adding a 240V outlet means installing a new 240V circuit on the main electrical panel, at a cost of $300-$800." - https://askinglot.com/open-detail/524447

The infrastructure (the grid) is already in place for EVs. All that is needed is an outlet into that grid which costs $1000 at the most for an electrician to install (any higher and you're probably being scammed). Anyone trying to sell you an EV will make sure you're aware how important home charging is. And 100% of people neither should nor will switch to EVs at once, so demand will grow slow enough for power companies to keep up.

Also I would recommend against 120V charging too (also known as L1 charging as opposed to L2 charging being 240V), but more likely you're getting 3+ miles an hour, not a day. But my point is that home charging is the least of anyone's worries. In fact it's the best part of owning an EV because it takes less than one minute of the owner's time to charge since generally you aren't driving over 200 miles in one day and you always have a full charge in the morning with it.

It's the price of an EV and 1 hour fast charging infrastructure that are about the only challenge to EVs (though quickly improving). And for the less common case of people towing more than 100 miles, that'll take some time for the market to improve so I'd just recommend having a second gas car for that or renting a pickup.
 

scavengerspc

Posts: 1,346   +1,256
TechSpot Elite
And while people can "charge at night", you need specialized hardware to do it
Even the most expensive EVs come with a 120v standard household connection. The only downside is you may have to plug in every day. 45 seconds out of your life.

You're right, it's not 1:1, its closer to 4:1
But charging stations are also located at restaurants, theaters, hotels, airports and on and on. They are not listed unless they are available to all and not just customers.

TFL's tesla model X was rendered to just 1/3rd of its range with a not so large trailer, and the heavier you go the more exponential the energy consumption is.
And my Ram 2500 has its mileage cut in half with a load that size. No point.
Not to mention: Who the hell tows with a Tesla?
Are they the same ones that tow with a SMART car?

Citation needed
None needed. Just ask anyone with an EV. Very common to just charge to that days needs.

The MSRPs HAVE been revealed though, and the XLT lightning has a staring MSRP of $52,974. Gas version is $46,495.
EV's have dropped prices drastically and will continue to do so. But your numbers are off.

EV fanbois trying to argue with red herrings is honestly the worst.
See the problem there is in your very own post your herrings are the reddest of all.
 
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Porkous

Posts: 135   +42
EV's are solid, imo.
Take a look at them closely. Personally, when I see an ICE car, I see a hot oven on wheels, that has to rely on deep desert fossil wells and also have to be subscribed to entire pools of it, shameless about global warming effects on earth and everything human kind.

EV's on the other had, carry their own energy, and they seem solid, not empty shells that rely on some far far away source of energy.

If I was a country, I would create an entire infrastructure of charging stations, and promote EV's mass production. All the electricity an entire nation can consume, up for grabs... an endless spring of clean, perfect, and intelligent energy.
 

p51d007

Posts: 2,768   +2,085
I'm extremely surprise that the US train system sucks hard, in most of Spain is pretty nice and half of the country is mountains


It's because the passenger train "system" in the United States, is run by the GOVERNMENT, who can't run anything except into the ground.