This Is How DLSS 5 Actually Performs (According to Nvidia)

[b3rdm4n]

Margins and inflation are not interlinked, do not try to make that link.

I didn't link them, I mentioned them both, indeed they are isolated factors but isolated factors that have both shifted.

I remember the Asus 6600GT being able to run Oblivion at max settings at 1024x768 for $230. That game is silly these days but it was the Crysis of its time.

I'm interested in any evidence you have of that? Like running it at all or running 60+FPS? Looking at this video a 6600GT couldn't manage 60fps at 640x480 medium with a newer cpu... Guru3d at the time showed (when using a 7600GT too):

despite this GPU being new to the market 1024x768 is the order of the day here no doubt about it! Even after that to get a smooth experience I had to notch down a few of the sliders to medium such as Grass shadows, and set Shadow Filtering (soft Shadows) to low. I desperately tried to preserve HDR, although no doubt if you arent bothered by it disabling this would give you a smoother experience again. After dropping these settings, Weatherleah ran between 20 to 25fps, hardly fantastic but just about playable. The rest of the game faired better. The Rickety Mine giving about 80fps and feeling perfectly smooth to play. Around town in Imperial City the game was also perfectly playable at around 35-40fps average and a minimum of around 26fps at these settings.

I don't see how a 6600GT was maxing out oblivion and getting playable framerates.

the 9800GT was a totier card and could be found regularly for under $350. years late, the GTX580, I had 2 in SLI and I paid $500 each for them and even my 1080ti was $700. Now we have $2000+ 80 class cards. The 30 class showed people were will to pay scalper prices and NV wanted a chunk, now the 50 series adoption rate and market share is abmismally low.

This feel way off topic now, so I'll leave those be, this would be endless.

 

[yRaz]

I didn't link them, I mentioned them both, indeed they are isolated factors but isolated factors that have both shifted.

I'm interested in any evidence you have of that? Like running it at all or running 60+FPS? Looking at this video a 6600GT couldn't manage 60fps at 640x480 medium with a newer cpu... Guru3d at the time showed (when using a 7600GT too):

I don't see how a 6600GT was maxing out oblivion and getting playable framerates.

This feel way off topic now, so I'll leave those be, this would be endless.

interesting you brought that up because I did have an 1900xt around that time but it was also under $300, it was my first PCIe card.

 

[b3rdm4n]

interesting you brought that up because I did have an 1900xt around that time but it was also under $300, it was my first PCIe card.

Great chat I guess. I also miss how affordable GPU's used to be.

 

[poohbear]

So: 227 FPS at native 4K falls to 62 fps at 1080p with DLSS5 before upscaling and frame gen.

Lol, no.

Why no? All graphics are rendered on software to run on the latest hardware, long before AI even existed. DLSS is just another iteration of software.

 

[Jack77]

Oh, I don't want Doom or others to look photorealistic per se. All I'm saying is that would at least be a transformative use case for DLSS 5. As it is now, I don't get the point of it.



I've got the 2080 Ti and the 5090 in separate rigs. The 2080 Ti could do 60 fps ray tracing on the Witcher 3, but at 1440p and not 4k (may have also had to turn down a couple of other settings, but most things were on Ultra). So the 2080 Ti is fine for ray tracing, but you gotta compromise on resolution. In any case, the main reason to get a top tier graphics card from my POV is if you plan to keep it for like 6+ years (which I do), otherwise it's just not worth the money (was also fortunate to buy before the crypto boom with the 2080 ti, and before the tariffs (which turned out to be a non-event really)/memory/AI shot up prices of the 5090s).

I had a 2080Ti. I play at 1440p and like quite maxed out graphics. While to me the 2080Ti was ok as a demonstrator of the tech, it was the bare minimum. Based on games that make RT shine (Control, CP77...), I think that the minimum RT-performance capability is around 3090(Ti) level. There are still plenty of cards today that cannot reach that RT-performance. And for path tracing, well, maybe next gen cards can really make that really viable. (taking DLSS 4 into account; but not frame gen).

 

[Jack77]

Regarding DLSS 5, it seems Nvidia has really turned down the dial to make it more acceptable. But as said by Techspot/HU: even with the latest gen hardware you pay a lot of performance for minor effects.

Asides from that, if the tech becomes widely accepted, Nvidia may turn up the dial again...

The most worrisome is that Nvidia can just enforce this tech in the drivers, and - provided the right model - ultimately make games look the way they or some party, like a government, think games should look.

 

[Melkor Unlimited]

Midrange cards also come with midrange expectations. I don't expect maxed out with cutting edge visual techniques and zero compromises and 60fps+ in every title, I'd expect to use things perhaps including, lower resolution/upscaling, optimised/midrange settings, etc.

It can be acceptable if you consider mid-range as $300 card.
For $1000+ card ... not so much.

 

[Puiu]

AI Slop period

And using 6x FG is just scummy marketing, lies upon lies.

 

[ScottSoapbox]

LOL! And people were mad when better lighting cost a third of your frames, now dramatic studio face costs almost all the frames!

 

[Lew Zealand]

Why no? All graphics are rendered on software to run on the latest hardware, long before AI even existed. DLSS is just another iteration of software.

The mechanism is irrelevant. A 90% drop in performance is the problem, requiring a $5,000 GPU to render 60 fps at 1080p.

Repeat: lol, no.

 

[Stoly]

So, now "120FPS" becomes unplayable...

When DLSS first came out, I envisioned a tech that would allow mid-range cards perform and look like higher end cards. My RTX3070Ti would run like a 3080 for free with comparable IQ. That was a win in my book

But it turns out the tech is absolutely a must for high end cards to even run at real 60fps+ (360fps x6)

 

[b3rdm4n]

It can be acceptable if you consider mid-range as $300 card.
For $1000+ card ... not so much.

Agreed, I never asserted that theyre value at $1000, or even midrange.

 

[Nintenboy01]

Yeah I think they were perhaps intentionally conservative with the "stock" graphics in NBA2K27. The shaders seem too plain and simple. Hopefully this isn't the start of a trend where devs hold back just so DLSS5 can look better

 

[Melkor Unlimited]

And using 6x FG is just scummy marketing, lies upon lies.

Lies within lies within lies.
-- Gaius Helen Mohiam, Bene Gesserit Reverend Mother

 

[dmoros]

Nvidia is shooting themselves on the foot with this one, and I dont mean because the technology is bad, actually, im impressed with it and it can transform certain games to remaster level, but with its performance.

I have tried it in many games on an RTX 4080 Super and using the optiscaler version (which performs much better),

First the obvious that RTX 4000 are capable of using this and nvidia chose not to which sucks.

Second in optiscaler you can choose the resolution of the image you give the model to work with, if I leave it at 100% then the performance hit is similar to what nvidia states, but if you choose 50% resolution (from 4K that is 1080p or my favorite 3200x1800 which 50% nets you 1600x900 for the model) then the results of the model are upscaled and blended with the full resolution frame giving almost identical quality but with much better perfomance! (going from 65 to 50 fps which then gets to 95 with 2x frame gen and looks perfeclty fine)

Its absurd that modders doing this on their free time in the space of a week and a few days have found a way to extract more performance from this than nvidia engineers...

 

[dmoros]

The mechanism is irrelevant. A 90% drop in performance is the problem, requiring a $5,000 GPU to render 60 fps at 1080p.

Repeat: lol, no.

I have tried it on my 4080 super using the patched dlls for 40 series, at 4K the hit is indeed massive.

Assassins Creed Black Flag Resynch:

4K Res Ultra settings with 2x FG tops my FPS at 118 fps (playing on an LG C4 OLED at 120 hz) with 280 Watts comsumption (of a max TDP of 320)

If I activate DLSS5 with those same settings performance literaly halves so im around 55-60 fps with 2x frame gen (which is not good) @ 310 Watts

I lower the resolution to 3200x1800, my performance goes up to 80 FPS with 2X frame gen, playable but still a tad low.

I lower the DLSS model resolution to 50% in optiscaler setting and perfomance goes back to around 100 fps.

Played 3 hours like this and I must say I was pleasantly surprised, for this game that tries to look photorealistic, the results are outstanding, I simply toned down the strenght to 75% as it was a bit too harsh but left everything else untouched and it looked amazing and very photorealistic, not onlty the characters but the enviroments too.

Jungle vegetation suddenly had much more self shadowing, the colors looked more realistic it toned down a bit saturation but also added like soft reflections on leaves that had direct sunlight, also seemed to add subsurface scattering to the vegetation as well, it was simply amazing.

So if you tweak it correctly you can get great results with playable frame rate and ON PREVIOUS gen cards! (thank god for modders)

 

[b3rdm4n]

First the obvious that RTX 4000 are capable of using this and nvidia chose not to which sucks.

As of today, they've announced it's coming to 40 series too.

Nvidia will officially bring DLSS 5 to older GPUs — but won’t give gamers full control

The cat is out of the bag.

www.theverge.com

 

[Watzupken]

When I saw this DLSS 5.0 marketing, I immediately recalled the infamous opening from Jensen, RTX 5070 = RTX 4090. Here, it is like DLSS 5 will make everything look more AI slop, but you won't lose performance. But when you look at the fine prints, it says running with MFG 6x... Unless they can prove that latency is better with MFG 6x, then native/ DLSS 4, then I may consider. Nvidia is not interested in gamers and just slapping AI slop on their product and marketing it as some good stuff. But in reality, how many gamers actually play or like a game because the characters look more realistic? What this tells me is that Nvidia is increasingly becoming more disconnected from gaming requirements.